Robbery outside Home Depot

[MLeake]

I went over to Home Depot today, to rent a carpet cleaner. While in the Tool Rental area, I overheard another customer talking with the desk clerk about a robbery that went down the previous week at their location.

Apparently, some Army guys from Fort Bragg had gone there to rent a ladder. They were putting the ladder on the roof of their government van when they saw a guy coming at them from the treeline across the parking lot section outside Tool Rental. The guy pulled a gun on them and robbed them.

So, this turned into a discussion of how the military's policy of not allowing personal weapons to be carried on base has inadvertently flagged military personnel who are obviously going to or coming from bases as ideal robbery targets. Odds are extremely high that they are unarmed, or that any weapons will be secured in locked cases in cargo compartments.

How backwards is it when the safest victims are military people? Just a pet peeve of mine...

Of course, I'd just love to see somebody try this with MP's, CID, or NCIS types by mistake. There are at least some exceptions, luckily.

[Texasborn]

That was one thing I didn't like or understand when I was in the Air Force. We are military, but we weren't allowed to have weapons. You could keep your stuff at the base armory, but good luck not having your stuff messed with.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I always thought they would be carrying standard issue sidearms if they're on duty. (I assume they were on duty being that they were driving a govt van?)

[MLeake]

and forces forward will carry weapons.

In US or European bases, though, weapons are only taken off base if transiting between bases (for instance, range practice when the range is on a different complex).

Just going out in town on errands or lunch, no. Going to or from home, no. (MP's draw weapons at beginning of shift, and turn them in at end of shift).

In my reserve unit, we had a couple of guys whose civilian jobs were LEO. They did not carry while doing military things on base, but they could carry on base if in the performance of their civilian LEO jobs. How weird is that?

[BlkHawk73]

Might not make sense but...

Hey wait...if a store has a policy against a person carrying firearms everyone gets feathers ruffled and has the "boycott the store" mentality. So do these same folks now boycott the US military for their "anti-gun" regulations?

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by MLeake

How weird is that?

In my 2 1/2 years of federal government employment I found such things to be more expected than "weird" under the bureaucratic rulers. Sadly.

[sakeneko]

I've noticed that *stupid* bureaucratic rules that would never survive if anybody with the authority to change things ever wasted a thought on them are common when you work for the government, or for many large quasi-public companies such as regulated utilities. Earlier in my life I worked for the (local) government for one year and a large utility company for 3 years. The old adage, "There's no reason; it's just our policy" applied equally both places.

[Tucker 1371]

Wow... never knew this was the policy. What BS. Even if you have a CHL from the state I am stationed in you cannot CCW when in the military? The only angle I can see this making evan a shred of sense from is that law that prevents the military from engaging in civilian law enforcement.

[seanie]

The same thing happened to one of my buddies while he was stationed in Alaska around 2000-2002ish if I recall. He was a Ranger, off base, and was robbed at gun point. All he asked for back was his military ID and he didn't even get that.

[TEDDY]

that has been the policy since WW2.I was in navalair and carried.(privatly).I kept my gun in my locker.I was on a seaplane base.I got a colt 1905 38acp and carried that and a New service 45 colt.not at same time.jumpers were great for concealment.it was a diferent time and culture.guess its time to take it back.

[Dr Raoul Duke]

In the Navy in Vietnam the brass did not want any of us taking the weapons off base. We were only allowed to carry a 1911A1 off the boat when we we carrying out official duty. Like many, I found that intolerable. Fortunately there was a pretty lively black market, and a good used 1911A1 was pretty inexpensive. It was either that, or rely on carrying a KABAR under one's shirt. This is in a war zone, where almost anyone could step up and try to "grease" an American. Crazy rules for a crazy time. It doesn't sound like the military has gotten any smarter.

Dr. Raoul Duke
Gonzo Forever

[chris in va]

Even if you have a CHL from the state I am stationed in you cannot CCW when in the military?

You can, if you go get your gun from the armory every single time you leave the base.

[MLeake]

... you'd have to store it, unloaded, in your cargo compartment. So, you'd have to stop outside the gate somewhere, to retrieve and load the weapon. Not ideal, by any means.

[mouse07410]

Hey wait...if a store has a policy against a person carrying firearms everyone gets feathers ruffled and has the "boycott the store" mentality. So do these same folks now boycott the US military for their "anti-gun" regulations?

Actually, not a bad thought at all! Unless you're thrilled with the idea to catch a bullet in some forsaken land, following policy that makes no sense.

I personally am way past the desire to save the world. Are you?

[akamdg]

In Alaska, civilians aren't required to have a concealed carry permit to carry a weapon concealed. However, Soldiers aren't allowed to carry any weapons concealed on or off post. Also, all soldiers in Alaska are supposed to register all there weapons and keep them in the barracks arms room.

It doesn't make any sense to me.

[MLeake]

Military personnel stationed in a state are treated as state residents for all legal purposes except income tax, which is paid to the state of home of record. Maybe the base in your area has some rules about it, but it shouldn't be the state of Alaska's rules.

[jgcoastie]

In Alaska you can carry concealed without a permit unless you're a soldier. Soldiers aren't allowed to carry any weapons concealed on or off post. Also, all soldiers in Alaska have to register there weapons and keep them in the barracks arms room.

I haven't seen a directive indicating such... Maybe it's just in your base commander's standing orders? Maybe it differs between the various branches, but there are no restirctions for military personnel carrying off-base here. Anytime while on-base, you are subject to the base commander's standing orders, base policy, and the articles set forth in the UCMJ. The state of Alaska has never issued any restrictions for military personnel carrying while out of uniform, off-base, and off-duty.

We are "allowed" to keep personally owned weapons in our base housing residences, they must be kept seperate from ammunition/mags while transporting between gate and house.

And yes, I find it incredibly retarded that I am trusted to carry a weapon and enforce U.S. laws and regulations everywhere from our shoreline to the territorial seas of other nations, but I can't leave my CCW in it's holster until I get to my house on base. I have to pull over, download, and store my weapon and mag seperately before I can legally enter the base.

[akamdg]

“Carrying concealed deadly weapons by USARAK Soldiers represents a significant risk to the safety and welfare of this command. Accordingly, all Soldiers assigned or attached to USARAK are prohibited from carrying a concealed deadly weapon in public places off of all USARAK posts. All persons are prohibited from carrying concealed deadly weapons on USARAK posts IAW [in accordance with] USARAK Regulation 190-1.”

http://www.usarak.army.mil/policies/...EMENT%2020.pdf


a. I understand that all military personnel assigned to USARAK/USAG-AK who reside on-post (family quarters, BEQ, BOQ, Soldier
Barracks/Billets) must immediately register all privately owned weapons (firearms) with the Provost Marshal Office on the post where they are
assigned.
b. As a part of the registration process, I understand that I am responsible for providing the pink and yellow copies of the USARAK Form
877 (Weapons Registration Form) to my unit commander for signature and file in the unit arms room.
c. I understand that if I live off-post but bring a POW onto to the main cantonment or main post, as determined by my entry through a
manned access control point (any entrance gate to the installation), to participate in authorized activities (hunting, trapping, hiking, camping
personal protection, skeet/trap) I must immediately register that firearm at the Visitor Control Center (Main Gate).
d. I understand that I am responsible for de-registering all POWs entered into the Provost Marshal data base in my name whenever a
change of ownership occurs.
e. I understand that while being transported in vehicles, weapons will be unloaded and cased (hard or soft case) and that I may not store
any firearm in my vehicle (short term storage is authorized during intermittent stops between authorized use areas only).
f. I understand that although Alaska State Law permits the carrying of firearms concealed, this law is NOT valid on any USARAK or Air
Force Installations. I further understand the USARAK Commanding General has published a more restrictive policy on concealed weapons
carried by Soldiers during any off-post activity. I have been provided with a copy of this policy by my commander.
g. I understand that if I am assigned a room in Soldier billets, I must store my POW in the unit arms room and I will obtain written approval
from my commander before removing my POW from the arms room. I also understand that if I live in government quarters I will receive my
commander's approval before storing my POW in my quarters (on-post family quarters, BOQ/BEQ).
h. I am aware the Military Police Desk has a safe available 24/7 for the temporary storage of any POW when other authorized storage
locations are unavailable to me.
I verify that a review of the above individual's files was conducted and revealed no convictions for domestic violence. The
individual is authorized to possess or have access to weapons and ammunition.

http://www.usarak.army.mil/publicati...orm%20410e.pdf

I guess if you live off post you don't have to keep your weapons in the arms room.

[jgcoastie]

Well, that really does stink for you guys...

Just one more reason why the Coast Guard is better...

[MLeake]

I have to wonder if it's not a knee-jerk reaction to current suicide rates. I suspect that's exactly what it is.

[jgcoastie]

I should mention that barracks residents must store their personal weapons at the MILPOL armory (accessable 24/7). Either that, or store them at your unit's armory (if so equipped, with unit command approval, and space is available).

EDIT: I should also mention that what restrictions our base commander places on his personnel, I am only subject to his policies while I am actually on base, he cannot prevent me from carrying while off-base. That would be a command decision, enacted by my own unit, which is completely seperate and is in no way suboordinate to the base.

[JohnKSa]

The base commander decides what policy he wants to enact on his base. Seems like most of them want disarmed soldiers.

[trooper3385]

A good friend of mine that was a police officer that I worked with had just got back from Iraq. He had like 10 yrs in the Army and then went into the guard when he got activated the last time. He did a year and a half in Iraq and had been back 2 weeks. He went back for his weekend warrior training and left the base that night to go eat. He went to the ATM to get money and got shot 2 times. Died a week later from a blood clot. He was the 3rd person they had shot that night. The other 2 also died. None of the 3 had been robbed. Just shot and left there. Before he died, he was doing good while he was in the hospital In stable condition and I went to visit him. I asked him if he was armed, because I knew he never went anywhere off duty without being armed and he said he didn't have a weapon because he was leaving base. He couldn't bring his weapon on base with him while he was there for training so he would leave it at home since he didn't have anywhere else to keep it. He said he was aware of his surrounding and saw them coming and knew something was about to go down, he just didn't have anywhere to go or anything to defend himself with.

[Daugherty16]

I have a hard time understanding the scope of a standing order that would impact or control a soldier's actions while off duty, off base. Besides which, it is impossible to enforce.

How exactly does a base commander's standing order overrule state law when one is acting as a private citizen? (i understand that soldiers would obey the CO's order, but what is the legal authority for such an order?) And the preamble to that piece states as an uncontravertible fact that having soldiers carrying a concealed deadly weapon (could this be any broader? how about a nail file?) is a significant risk to the safety and welfare of the (this) command. Suppose the CO had a dislike for Sorel boots - could he forbid his soldiers from wearing them anywhere on or off base?

It is hard for me to even guess at the thinking that went into that policy. You could argue that carrying a concealed or open weapon, as protection against rape, robbery, etc is a proper action to preserve their lives, and in the process preserve the accumulated value of a soldier's training.

Is this commonplace elsewhere? Is it purely the whim of a specific base commander, or is this actual widespread US Military policy?

[matolman1]

Just like the recruitment soldiers in Little Rock that were gunned down by the Islamic terrorist recently.
Why are our soldiers unarmed??