Has the mini-14 ever failed to function in a gunfight?

Come and take it. · July 5, 2009, 01:52 PM

I know the track record of the mini-14 is not even close to the track records of the AKs and M16s/ ARs.

So we can only go on what instances that it has been used in combat.

I know in the Miami Shootout the mini apparently never malfunctioned.
At Ruby Ridge when the mini-14 was fired it never malfunctioned.

The information is hard to track down although the mini-14 must certianly have seen action in the hands of law enforcement and criminals alike.

Anyone have a source on this subject?

Our Chief of Police used to be a state trooper and he said that the mini-14s were very reliable but when they switched to the AR15s they began to experience reliablity troubles. THeir department told them to not fire steel cased ammo in them anymore.

uzimon · July 5, 2009, 02:11 PM

the miami bank robbery that was the deciding factor to upgrade the fbi's weapon of choice.
the bg's used a mini, tore hell outta the feds AND their gun.
1 round of 223 destroyed a feds gun

ISC · July 5, 2009, 02:20 PM

the mini has never been used in combat. Weaver shot 3 rounds from his mini 14. Calling a shootout between LEOs and civilians "combat" is like calling a drag race between teenagers "NASCAR".

The mini is what it is, a neat little rifle that shoots a military cartridge pretty well as long as you don't shoot it too fast, expect too much accuracy, or expect to shoot it with reliable inexpensive magazines.

Your chierf must be crazy if he thinks the mini is more reliable. I wonder when the last time was when he got out from behind his desk. Departments all over the country are getting rid of minis due to catastrophic bolt failures, magazine issues, and poor accuracy.

Come and take it. · July 5, 2009, 02:26 PM

When he used the mini he was a Kentucky state trooper.

They were required to go through 3000 rounds out of their personal weapons a month.

Mini-14s were used in the Waco Standoff as well.

I am trying to research this but I am having a hard time tracking down a solid source describing the performance of the mini-14 in combat. Any shootout is combat in my opinion. Oftentimes the guns used in shootouts are in a worse state than ones used in military shootouts. Many in domestic shootouts havent been fired in years. Some with a round in a chamber all those years.

Storing a loaded gun for long periods of time without maintenance is quite demanding on a weapon. In most cases the gun is never cleaned before it was laid the corner or in the trunk of a car. Mini-14s seem to do very well in these demanding enviroments. It would nice to accumulate some kind of database on the guns history in shootouts.

greyson97 · July 5, 2009, 03:45 PM

massad ayoob mentions a mini-14 favorably as a police carry. hes point was that the $400 mini-14 was good enough for police work, when he had the option of carrying his $2000 Olympic Arms AR-15

although i did have a gun sales man tell me "you dont want a mini-14"

jhenry · July 5, 2009, 04:11 PM

My first question wuld be this, exactly how would a Mini 14 know it was in a gunfight? In other words, reliability is reliability. It matters not where the thing is pointed. That platform is in use quite a bit by outdoorsmen, bush pilots, etc. Reliability in those instances would impress me more than reliability of a rifle taken out of a rack or case where it has been kept out of the elements and maintained on some sort of schedule. My second question concerns the 3,000 rounds per month. That is quite a lot of ammunition, I mean come on, 100 rounds per day required? 36,000 rounds per year? Add that up per trooper and look at the cost, let alone the man hours. I find that one a bit hard to swallow.

Come and take it. · July 5, 2009, 04:19 PM

That is what I was told. If a veteran state trooper fibbed to me I guess he did.

In Kentucky the some of the State Police are trained to act as quick response teams if necessary.

Combat situations have to factor in ability to sustain abuse, human interaction with the weapon under stress, and its ability to function if its fouled or dirty.

Its not a debate on whether the mini is durable or not but whether there is empirical evidence to prove or disprove whether it is a gun a person can depend on in a firefight and under adverse weather conditions.

If the mini-14 is insufficient than there should be some empirecal data provided by researchers to show this is the case.

Sarge · July 5, 2009, 04:22 PM

I'm not aware of any instances where the Mini failed in combat.

Anyone who thinks a spitting-distance shootout, or one on the level of Miami '86, isn't 'combat'- sure has a different perspective than most who've experienced it. To each his own I guess.

I've only owned a couple of Mini's but have seen many more on LE ranges. The fact of the matter is that I have seen numerous AR's malfunction with factory ammo, and I can't recall the last time I saw a Mini do it.

On cheap mags...Using ProMag 20's, my current Mini has now munched through at least 150 rounds of oddball 'bench cleanup' .223 reloads. It is not particular about the powder charge and functions with anything in the range of Hodgon's data. Add a good 400 rounds of FMJ & softpoint to the above tally; the Mini 14/ProMag combo has never missed a beat even with any of it. I am really happy with these magazines, especially considering their price.

The AR does enjoy better parts/magazine availability and it's magazine port and locking mechanism make the Mini's look ridiculous.

Still, they're both decent rifles. I like the Mini's ergos better and if you haven't shot a 580+ series Mini, you can't appreciate how much more accurate they are. I was having a ball with mine yesterday, exploding water-filled Coke cans at 200 yards. The misses were all 'mine'.

Tim R · July 5, 2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

THeir department told them to not fire steel cased ammo in them anymore.

There is about the half the problem. I would never fire a steel cased cartridge in any firearm I loved. After many rounds the Lacquer used on steel cases melts into the chamber and without proper care and cleaning, you will have problems. I would suggest the model of the firearm is a moot point.

Red_Eagle · July 5, 2009, 04:38 PM

Either Guatamala or hondoras has the selective fire version (AC-556). Not sure how they like it.

overkill556x45 · July 5, 2009, 04:51 PM

Any weapon will inevitably malfunction in combat (or any other time you REALLY need it). I've even seen the almighty AK-47 fail in combat while my M16A2 kept on spitting out M855. I guess no one told those rifles that mine was supposed to fail and the ANA guy's rifle was supposed to be unstoppable. It comes down to maintenance, magazines, and ammo quality.

Any, and I mean ANY firearm that is poorly maintained, used with bad mags, or stuffed with poor quality ammunition will come to an abrupt and unhandy halt.

As for 3k rounds a month, I imagine the former trooper meant 3k/year. 36,000 rounds a year seems like an awful lot to invest in ammo and man hours. Unless they expected a trooper to use his meager salary to buy 36k rounds a year and spend his precious time off to shoot for the department. I enjoy shooting as much or more than the next guy, but I also enjoy having a day off with the wife once in a while. I also enjoy not being flat broke from buying stupidly expensive ammo (I still only shoot eastern bloc surplus, since it's still cheap). I'm not calling the guy a liar, I just think he mis-spoke. A lot of guys in the active Army are hard pressed to break 3k live rounds a year--and the Army's budget is exponentially higher than any state's highway patrol budget.

Come and take it. · July 5, 2009, 04:56 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bermuda_Regiment

Jamaican defence force

oldcspsarge · July 5, 2009, 05:32 PM

The LEO version AC556 has not failed in "Combat" to my knowledge BUT they are famous for shattering bolts on the Range during training. This happens in either 3 shot burst or full auto fire.

This is specific to the select fire AC556 ...Ruger has always replaced the broken bolts..and they had barrels full of them at one point.

With increased deployment of "Patrol Rifles"...the Mini-14 has most often been traded off for full size AR-15's or M-4 type carbines.

When Texas DPS realized deployment of the Mini-14's could require engaging targets at 100 yards...the Mini-14 could not compare with the accuracy of the AR format Rifles or the availability of optics/sight mounts.
They went to the AR format and have been very pleased with the increased accuracy.

For HD..a Mini would do the job...just stay away from ANY Steel cased ammo in ANY 223 rifle....you may be introducing ammo based failure to function into the equation.

stubbicatt · July 5, 2009, 05:43 PM

Yeah. The army was giving M16s away to our local police force. I don't think that the mini is replaced by the M16 is necessarily a vote of confidence with respect to reliablity.

Cops won't turn down a bribe in the form of a "free cup of coffee", a free donut, or a free machine gun.

Come and take it. · July 5, 2009, 05:54 PM

Just noticed those Soldiers are using 20 rounders. I take it they are Ruger factory mags.

My curiousity got the best of me and I googled for broken and shattered bolts for the Ruger mini 14 and couldn't find any photos. I have never seen the phenomenon myself personally.

I googled it for AR15s and found more than I could stomach.

Come and take it. · July 5, 2009, 06:22 PM

delete

GJJ · July 5, 2009, 06:33 PM

I own Garands, AR15s, and Mini-14s. I like all of them.

They have all been 99.99% reliable under hunting and plinking situations. If I had to guess which one would fail first under extreme combat, I would say the Mini-14. It does not appear to be as durable.

I think the failure mechanism for the Mini's is when they are subjected to sustained fire. Many gun schools seem to report Mini's failing to complete most classes. Heat build up could be inducing the failures that are reported.

Playboypenguin · July 5, 2009, 06:41 PM

I can only speak to my own experiences with the mini. These experiences left me with the impression that it was an okay gun for plinking but I would not want to trust my life to it. I could not hit squat with it, it would jam if I did not count "1 Mississippi" between each trigger pull, and the mags gave me tons of trouble.

Come and take it. · July 5, 2009, 06:59 PM

I have owned 5 AR 15s. 2 were okay. 3 were not.

In those if I don't keep the chamber clean between sessions from time to time I would get a stuck case.

That is not a catastrophic failure to the gun, but in a combat situation it could be very catastrophic for me.

This 580 ATI tactical I purchases is my fifth mini-14.

I had a stainless steel once that I poured 4 30 round Ramline mags through without a let up. Functioned perfectly.

Never had a stuck case EVER in a mini 14. I might have experienced malfunctions with magazine problems with some aftermarket mags like USA. However with factory or Ramline AR/ mini magazines it was 100 percent reliable.

I took one of the old minis, slapped it in a choate combat stock, put a scope on it and fired 69 grain boattails through it and consistently printed 1 and a half inch groups. The 1 in 7 twist was very finicky with what it liked. Killed a good run of groundhogs with that load. That gun also liked handloads nicely.

Art Eatman · July 5, 2009, 08:06 PM

Through the '70s and into the '80s, Minis weren't over-priced. I traded in and out of them, some four of them. Magazines all seemed to work. I had 20-, 30- and even one silly 40-round magazine, and they all seemed happy when beginning at cram-full.

I'm not much of a bangitty-bangitty-bangitty shooter, but every now and then I'd get an attack of the childish and run off a full mag. No problems, ever.

Three shots was all I ever expected for any sort of decent group, and they all did that. The K4 helped, of course.

Ever see a '70s Weatherby Mark V in 300 Wby Mag? Pencil barrel. Yeah, 1" group for three shots, but forget about 4 or 5 being in there tight. Just like a Mini, for behavior. Hunting rifles ain't bench rest rifles.

rgitzlaff · July 5, 2009, 10:16 PM

The A-team never had any problems with thier Mini-14's! They shot thousands of rounds over the many seasons. Sorry, couldn't resist!

MosinM38 · July 5, 2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Our Chief of Police used to be a state trooper and he said that the mini-14s were very reliable but when they switched to the AR15s they began to experience reliablity troubles. THeir department told them to not fire steel cased ammo in them anymore.

There's the problem right there. Alot of AR's (Dad's included) don't like steel cases.(And some Mini's).

The accuracy problems. A little work can make them (MOST) into 3" at a 100 shooters.

ALOT (Mine, dads, my uncles) are 1 1/2" guns. Loosen the barrel screws and it shrank groups by half.

And finally, A HUGE amount of the time, shooters compare a open sight Mini to a scoped AR15. Look at most issued Mini-14's they have iron sights. Whenever the M4's/M16's are issued, a large percentage of the time they are issued with low-power scopes...Big differance to.

And THE LAST: Use good ammo in them and they group better. Alot dump in el-cheap wolf and expect them to group. Mine, gets 1 1/2" with dads 55 grain handloads and Ultramax 55 grain. Switch to Wolf, American Eagle, or some other low-brand name. it goes up to 3" or so.

Magazines:
#1. I have went through a LOT of magazines and came up with this (I also have put 4 full loads through each mag, more in others).

ProMag Polymers are $14.99 targets. use them once and throw them. The 20's won't function, the 30's WILL function, but drop them and half a dozen rounds pop out. None seat really well, and reliability is so-so.

Pro-mag 20 round steels: Excellent. NEVER a problem.
Pro-mag 30 rounders steel: 9 out of 10 are good. The 10th is junk.
Pro-mag 40 round steels: about 7 out of 10 are good. 3 are junk.
USA, National magazines are a 50-50 shot.
Ruger factories (of course) work great. 100%. I got 2 20 rounders and plan on getting 2 more and 2 30's just to have.

From what I hear, alot of the Mini-14 mag problems were in the last month before the 94 AWB. The factories started churning them out so fast, that production quality took a big dip.

Ok..Long post, but the Mini has seen alot of use around here, and with the above-named quirks, worked out, they are a deadly and reliable gun. Admittedly, maybe not in-the-mud combat type, but I can't judge ANY weapon without being there

Cruncher Block · July 6, 2009, 12:13 AM

Nothing against either the Mini-14 or ARs.

But I think it should be pointed out that Minis are made by one and only one company.

The same is not true of ARs.

Superhouse 15 · July 6, 2009, 12:18 AM

My local Sheriff's office used them. Buy cheap, buy twice, they got blued with wood stocks. When they rusted they had them nickle plated, when the stocks got beat up they bought aftermarket synthetic stocks. When they got too expensive

they got rid of them and got M16s from the government.

But they never did actually fail to work when needed, they just lost a battle with bean counters.

Doc Intrepid · July 6, 2009, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISC

"Calling a shootout between LEOs and civilians "combat" is like calling a drag race between teenagers "NASCAR"."

With respect, a large number of dedicated lawmen have been involved in gunfights with criminals through the years.

Platt and Mattix come to mind, together with the FBI agents who fought it out with them in Miami in April, 1986. Bill Jordan and Elmer Keith are part of that lineup, and so are ordinary cops from towns all across the U.S. - many of whom have lost their lives to some seriously viscious asshats.

I respectfully suggest its disrespectful to dismiss those LEO gunfights as somehow "less than combat". When you engage in a mortal contest with deadly weapons, that's 'combat'. They may not have armored vehicles or air support or platoons, but they're putting their lives on the line. And when LEO lose those contests, as far as I'm concerned, they died in combat. You're free to call it whatever you want.

July 5, 2009, 04:11 PM	#6
jhenry Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 1,840	My first question wuld be this, exactly how would a Mini 14 know it was in a gunfight? In other words, reliability is reliability. It matters not where the thing is pointed. That platform is in use quite a bit by outdoorsmen, bush pilots, etc. Reliability in those instances would impress me more than reliability of a rifle taken out of a rack or case where it has been kept out of the elements and maintained on some sort of schedule. My second question concerns the 3,000 rounds per month. That is quite a lot of ammunition, I mean come on, 100 rounds per day required? 36,000 rounds per year? Add that up per trooper and look at the cost, let alone the man hours. I find that one a bit hard to swallow. __________________ "A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer

July 5, 2009, 04:19 PM	#7
Come and take it. Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 999	That is what I was told. If a veteran state trooper fibbed to me I guess he did. In Kentucky the some of the State Police are trained to act as quick response teams if necessary. Combat situations have to factor in ability to sustain abuse, human interaction with the weapon under stress, and its ability to function if its fouled or dirty. Its not a debate on whether the mini is durable or not but whether there is empirical evidence to prove or disprove whether it is a gun a person can depend on in a firefight and under adverse weather conditions. If the mini-14 is insufficient than there should be some empirecal data provided by researchers to show this is the case. Last edited by Come and take it.; July 5, 2009 at 04:26 PM.

July 5, 2009, 04:22 PM	#8
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,494	I'm not aware of any instances where the Mini failed in combat. Anyone who thinks a spitting-distance shootout, or one on the level of Miami '86, isn't 'combat'- sure has a different perspective than most who've experienced it. To each his own I guess. I've only owned a couple of Mini's but have seen many more on LE ranges. The fact of the matter is that I have seen numerous AR's malfunction with factory ammo, and I can't recall the last time I saw a Mini do it. On cheap mags...Using ProMag 20's, my current Mini has now munched through at least 150 rounds of oddball 'bench cleanup' .223 reloads. It is not particular about the powder charge and functions with anything in the range of Hodgon's data. Add a good 400 rounds of FMJ & softpoint to the above tally; the Mini 14/ProMag combo has never missed a beat even with any of it. I am really happy with these magazines, especially considering their price. The AR does enjoy better parts/magazine availability and it's magazine port and locking mechanism make the Mini's look ridiculous. Still, they're both decent rifles. I like the Mini's ergos better and if you haven't shot a 580+ series Mini, you can't appreciate how much more accurate they are. I was having a ball with mine yesterday, exploding water-filled Coke cans at 200 yards. The misses were all 'mine'. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice. Last edited by Sarge; July 5, 2009 at 06:37 PM. Reason: sp

July 5, 2009, 05:54 PM	#15
Come and take it. Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 999	Just noticed those Soldiers are using 20 rounders. I take it they are Ruger factory mags. My curiousity got the best of me and I googled for broken and shattered bolts for the Ruger mini 14 and couldn't find any photos. I have never seen the phenomenon myself personally. I googled it for AR15s and found more than I could stomach. Last edited by Come and take it.; July 5, 2009 at 06:27 PM.

July 5, 2009, 01:52 PM	#1
Come and take it. Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 999	Has the mini-14 ever failed to function in a gunfight? I know the track record of the mini-14 is not even close to the track records of the AKs and M16s/ ARs. So we can only go on what instances that it has been used in combat. I know in the Miami Shootout the mini apparently never malfunctioned. At Ruby Ridge when the mini-14 was fired it never malfunctioned. The information is hard to track down although the mini-14 must certianly have seen action in the hands of law enforcement and criminals alike. Anyone have a source on this subject? Our Chief of Police used to be a state trooper and he said that the mini-14s were very reliable but when they switched to the AR15s they began to experience reliablity troubles. THeir department told them to not fire steel cased ammo in them anymore.

July 5, 2009, 02:11 PM	#2
uzimon Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2007 Location: houston texas Posts: 115	the miami bank robbery that was the deciding factor to upgrade the fbi's weapon of choice. the bg's used a mini, tore hell outta the feds AND their gun. 1 round of 223 destroyed a feds gun

July 5, 2009, 02:20 PM	#3
ISC Junior member Join Date: August 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,982	the mini has never been used in combat. Weaver shot 3 rounds from his mini 14. Calling a shootout between LEOs and civilians "combat" is like calling a drag race between teenagers "NASCAR". The mini is what it is, a neat little rifle that shoots a military cartridge pretty well as long as you don't shoot it too fast, expect too much accuracy, or expect to shoot it with reliable inexpensive magazines. Your chierf must be crazy if he thinks the mini is more reliable. I wonder when the last time was when he got out from behind his desk. Departments all over the country are getting rid of minis due to catastrophic bolt failures, magazine issues, and poor accuracy.

July 5, 2009, 02:26 PM	#4
Come and take it. Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 999	When he used the mini he was a Kentucky state trooper. They were required to go through 3000 rounds out of their personal weapons a month. Mini-14s were used in the Waco Standoff as well. I am trying to research this but I am having a hard time tracking down a solid source describing the performance of the mini-14 in combat. Any shootout is combat in my opinion. Oftentimes the guns used in shootouts are in a worse state than ones used in military shootouts. Many in domestic shootouts havent been fired in years. Some with a round in a chamber all those years. Storing a loaded gun for long periods of time without maintenance is quite demanding on a weapon. In most cases the gun is never cleaned before it was laid the corner or in the trunk of a car. Mini-14s seem to do very well in these demanding enviroments. It would nice to accumulate some kind of database on the guns history in shootouts.

July 5, 2009, 03:45 PM	#5
greyson97 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,284	massad ayoob mentions a mini-14 favorably as a police carry. hes point was that the $400 mini-14 was good enough for police work, when he had the option of carrying his $2000 Olympic Arms AR-15 although i did have a gun sales man tell me "you dont want a mini-14"

July 5, 2009, 04:38 PM	#10
Red_Eagle Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2007 Location: Western NY Posts: 598	Either Guatamala or hondoras has the selective fire version (AC-556). Not sure how they like it.

July 5, 2009, 04:51 PM	#11
overkill556x45 Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 624	Any weapon will inevitably malfunction in combat (or any other time you REALLY need it). I've even seen the almighty AK-47 fail in combat while my M16A2 kept on spitting out M855. I guess no one told those rifles that mine was supposed to fail and the ANA guy's rifle was supposed to be unstoppable. It comes down to maintenance, magazines, and ammo quality. Any, and I mean ANY firearm that is poorly maintained, used with bad mags, or stuffed with poor quality ammunition will come to an abrupt and unhandy halt. As for 3k rounds a month, I imagine the former trooper meant 3k/year. 36,000 rounds a year seems like an awful lot to invest in ammo and man hours. Unless they expected a trooper to use his meager salary to buy 36k rounds a year and spend his precious time off to shoot for the department. I enjoy shooting as much or more than the next guy, but I also enjoy having a day off with the wife once in a while. I also enjoy not being flat broke from buying stupidly expensive ammo (I still only shoot eastern bloc surplus, since it's still cheap). I'm not calling the guy a liar, I just think he mis-spoke. A lot of guys in the active Army are hard pressed to break 3k live rounds a year--and the Army's budget is exponentially higher than any state's highway patrol budget.

July 5, 2009, 04:56 PM	#12
Come and take it. Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 999	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bermuda_Regiment Jamaican defence force

July 5, 2009, 05:32 PM	#13
oldcspsarge Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 441	The LEO version AC556 has not failed in "Combat" to my knowledge BUT they are famous for shattering bolts on the Range during training. This happens in either 3 shot burst or full auto fire. This is specific to the select fire AC556 ...Ruger has always replaced the broken bolts..and they had barrels full of them at one point. With increased deployment of "Patrol Rifles"...the Mini-14 has most often been traded off for full size AR-15's or M-4 type carbines. When Texas DPS realized deployment of the Mini-14's could require engaging targets at 100 yards...the Mini-14 could not compare with the accuracy of the AR format Rifles or the availability of optics/sight mounts. They went to the AR format and have been very pleased with the increased accuracy. For HD..a Mini would do the job...just stay away from ANY Steel cased ammo in ANY 223 rifle....you may be introducing ammo based failure to function into the equation.

July 5, 2009, 05:43 PM	#14
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Yeah. The army was giving M16s away to our local police force. I don't think that the mini is replaced by the M16 is necessarily a vote of confidence with respect to reliablity. Cops won't turn down a bribe in the form of a "free cup of coffee", a free donut, or a free machine gun.

July 5, 2009, 06:22 PM	#16
Come and take it. Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 999	delete

July 5, 2009, 06:33 PM	#17
GJJ Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2006 Posts: 164	I own Garands, AR15s, and Mini-14s. I like all of them. They have all been 99.99% reliable under hunting and plinking situations. If I had to guess which one would fail first under extreme combat, I would say the Mini-14. It does not appear to be as durable. I think the failure mechanism for the Mini's is when they are subjected to sustained fire. Many gun schools seem to report Mini's failing to complete most classes. Heat build up could be inducing the failures that are reported.

July 5, 2009, 06:41 PM	#18
Playboypenguin Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 11,515	I can only speak to my own experiences with the mini. These experiences left me with the impression that it was an okay gun for plinking but I would not want to trust my life to it. I could not hit squat with it, it would jam if I did not count "1 Mississippi" between each trigger pull, and the mags gave me tons of trouble.

July 5, 2009, 06:59 PM	#19
Come and take it. Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 999	I have owned 5 AR 15s. 2 were okay. 3 were not. In those if I don't keep the chamber clean between sessions from time to time I would get a stuck case. That is not a catastrophic failure to the gun, but in a combat situation it could be very catastrophic for me. This 580 ATI tactical I purchases is my fifth mini-14. I had a stainless steel once that I poured 4 30 round Ramline mags through without a let up. Functioned perfectly. Never had a stuck case EVER in a mini 14. I might have experienced malfunctions with magazine problems with some aftermarket mags like USA. However with factory or Ramline AR/ mini magazines it was 100 percent reliable. I took one of the old minis, slapped it in a choate combat stock, put a scope on it and fired 69 grain boattails through it and consistently printed 1 and a half inch groups. The 1 in 7 twist was very finicky with what it liked. Killed a good run of groundhogs with that load. That gun also liked handloads nicely.

July 5, 2009, 08:06 PM	#20
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Through the '70s and into the '80s, Minis weren't over-priced. I traded in and out of them, some four of them. Magazines all seemed to work. I had 20-, 30- and even one silly 40-round magazine, and they all seemed happy when beginning at cram-full. I'm not much of a bangitty-bangitty-bangitty shooter, but every now and then I'd get an attack of the childish and run off a full mag. No problems, ever. Three shots was all I ever expected for any sort of decent group, and they all did that. The K4 helped, of course. Ever see a '70s Weatherby Mark V in 300 Wby Mag? Pencil barrel. Yeah, 1" group for three shots, but forget about 4 or 5 being in there tight. Just like a Mini, for behavior. Hunting rifles ain't bench rest rifles.

July 5, 2009, 10:16 PM	#21
rgitzlaff Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2006 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 525	The A-team never had any problems with thier Mini-14's! They shot thousands of rounds over the many seasons. Sorry, couldn't resist!

July 6, 2009, 12:13 AM	#23
Cruncher Block Member Join Date: December 12, 2008 Posts: 63	Nothing against either the Mini-14 or ARs. But I think it should be pointed out that Minis are made by one and only one company. The same is not true of ARs.

July 6, 2009, 12:18 AM	#24
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2007 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 844	My local Sheriff's office used them. Buy cheap, buy twice, they got blued with wood stocks. When they rusted they had them nickle plated, when the stocks got beat up they bought aftermarket synthetic stocks. When they got too expensive they got rid of them and got M16s from the government. But they never did actually fail to work when needed, they just lost a battle with bean counters.