Lee Factory Crimp Dies

[brewman]

To begin with I know there are several threads about crimping but I will start a new one specifically about the FCD and rifle loads.


Do you factory crimp?
If you do why?
If you don’t why?



Personally I only load for hunting rifles and I factory crimp every round I assemble wether the projectile has a cannelure or not.

My reasoning for that is.
• It eliminates the need to seat off the lands to achieve consistent start pressure
• Gives a consistent start pressure for any projectiles of a given weight regardless of projectile ogive and relation of seating depth to lands
• It makes a more robust round for a hunting environment
• It eliminates projectiles seating back in heavier kicking rifles


Some things I know you need to be aware of
• Cases must be trimmed to the same length
• Case neck thickness will effect crimp (I only load in batches of same brand cases)
• Possibly reduces brass life

Basically I am curious as to what people’s thoughts are and some guidance as to wether I am thinking along the right lines or not.

Cheers.

[freakshow10mm]

I crimp for .223 and .375 H&H. The .375 gets crimped due to recoil and the .223 is fired in a machine gun and uses bullets with a cannelure.

Cases to not have to be trimmed to the same length. Case length will not alter OAL.

[wingman]

I prefer to seat and crimp with two different operations, why, simply it works better for me can't give you a solid answer other then it turns out better quality ammo.

[Mark whiz]

I bought and tested a FCD in .308 and everytime I compared indentical crimped and non-crimped loads...............the non-crimped ones always grouped better out of my semi-auto rifles.

Your results may vary - but that was my experience.

[Mike40-11]

I use the Lee FCD for .45 ACP and 9mm. I like it for 2 reasons. The solid grip on the bullet eliminates any setback when chambering and, even though I size the brass at the start, it gets tweaked again to ensure it will chamber fully.

[freakshow10mm]

Crimping does not hold the bullet in place. The tension is built into the sizer die.

[Shoney]

I was amazed to see that freakshow10mm in post#2 crimps exactly the same cartridges I do without the FCD. I also echo his

Crimping does not hold the bullet in place. The tension is built into the sizer die.

[Slamfire]

My reasoning for that is.
• It eliminates the need to seat off the lands to achieve consistent start pressure.

Gives a consistent start pressure for any projectiles of a given weight regardless of projectile ogive and relation of seating depth to lands

How critical is "consistent start pressure" to accuracy?

Standard rifle sizing dies provide enough neck tension to create very accurate ammunition, so this is not an issue and I have encountered.

The 30 caliber bullets I use are not jump sensitive, and my match rifles shoot sub MOA without crimping. No target shooter I know or have ever met (and will ever meet) crimps their ammo.

"It makes a more robust round for a hunting environment"

Sometimes is it difficult to keep your own face from being bashed in while traveling in some terrain, never mind your rifle. But for 99% of the hunting I have done, this is not a consideration.

• It eliminates projectiles seating back in heavier kicking rifles"

Agree. Short range rifles such as elephant guns may require this. I do crimp my 30-30 rounds. They fit in a tubular magazine. 30-30 lever action rifles are not exactly tack drivers and I don't use them at distances that exceed their capabilities.

I have decided that I am not going to pay top price for good bullets, only to swage the middle of these bullets with a Lee FCD.

It is easy to damage bullets with a Lee FCD. These 6.5 SMK's were obviously overcrimped, but you cannot tell till you pull the bullet.

[Mike40-11]

Crimping does not hold the bullet in place. The tension is built into the sizer die.

I hear that quite often, but actually, it does. I agree that crimping is not always NECESSARY to hold the bullet in place, but it most certainly does grip it more than just the neck tension.

If not, why is it recommended for heavy recoiling rounds and autoloaders?

[Slamfire]

If not, why is it recommended for heavy recoiling rounds and autoloaders?

It is possible it adds grip.

Military rounds have a tar sealant around the bullets. That is a far more effective way of keeping the bullet in place than a crimp. The military has weapons that have such a high feed rate, the bullets would jump out as they are being rammed if it were not for the tar. I think the crimp is extra insurance.

[freakshow10mm]

The neck tension is built into the sizer. Measure your sizer button once. Then measure your bullet diameter. Nifty, huh?

Size a bullet then seat it without crimping. Measure the OAL. Push it against a hard surface as hard as you can. Now measure the OAL. Didn't change, eh?

Belling the case mouth isn't needed, but it can help get the bullet started easier. It works the brass which weakens it.

I've never heard crimping recommended in auto loaders. That's news to me. My .223 loads using bullets without a cannelure aren't crimped and I've shot a crap load of them in my day without any issues.

Heavy recoil cartridges are recommended for crimping in a cannelure as a backup in case the recoil dislodges the bullet by overcoming the neck tension.

Here's a 300gr Sierra GKSP in .375 and a 64gr Win PP in .223 that are not crimped at all. I can put about a hundred pounds of weight (recorded by pushing the round into a bathroom scale) and the OAL does not change one thousandth of an inch. In the .375 Holland, I can leave the same round in the bottom of the mag only topping off the top 4 rounds and shoot 20 rounds of full power handloads (300gr @ 2550fps) and there is no change in the OAL of that bottom round.

[Don P]

Yes I use the factory crimp die. revolver and semi-auto all rounds and zero problems with regard to feeding or chambering in revolvers

[Mike40-11]

Size a bullet then seat it without crimping. Measure the OAL. Push it against a hard surface as hard as you can. Now measure the OAL. Didn't change, eh?

Sure it did. Which is why I crimp. It's possible that I'm belling the case too much. However, I load lead and I've set it to flare as little as possible without shaving the base. Then again, I've loaded maybe 8,000 rounds over the last 4 years and am far from an expert.

Again, my point is that, while it isn't usually required if everything is set up ideally, the crimp absolutely holds the bullets more firmly. Heck if you're loading bullets without a cannelure the FCD will MAKE one if you set it to hit too hard.

I don't crimp jacketed because I don't have to bell the case to get the bullet seated. In that case, the neck tension is more than sufficient. Lead pistol, not so much.

Freak, I know you make and load lead. How do you seat without a bell and not shave the base?

[David Wile]

Hey Mike,

I load cast gas checked rifle bullets with two die sets. I first did it for a 30-40 Krag rifle back in 1959 or 1960. No, I did not have any expanding die other than the neck expander-deprimer already in the sizer die. I found I was able to carefully load a gas checked cast bullet if I champhered the inside of the case neck after resizing.

In the many years since then, I have found I could load gas checked cast bullets in all bottleneck rifle cases if I champhered them and then carefully held the bullet in place as I was seating them. With straight wall cases like the 45-70, the expander die will actually bell the mouth, but I still champher the mouths of all my cases either when they are new or if they are trimmed in length.

As far as the FCD making its own canneure when the bullet has none, I realize this is true, but I cannot see the sense in deforming a perfect bullet that you spend good money to expect it to fly well. Someone on the forum once said, "The Lee Factory Crimp Die is a solution looking for a problem." That statement pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. If it works for you, that's fine, but I have never seen a need for it in my experience.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[gb_in_ga]

Do you factory crimp?
If you do why?

Yes, I do crimp. And I use a FCD to do it.
I crimp because what I'm currently loading for is .30-30, which is used in a tubular magazine. Crimping is SOP when the round is being used in a tubular magazine. Regarding the issues that some have when using the FCD regarding it making its own cannelures and thus deforming the bullets, I have no real problem with that since the bullets I use already have cannelures.

[Alleykat]

My reasoning for that is.
• It eliminates the need to seat off the lands to achieve consistent start pressure

Apparently, the OP doesn't have a clue as to why one "seats off the lands" at different measured lengths.

I have used a FCD; don't anymore.

[CJ7365]

I noticed when I crimp my .223 ammo with the Lee FCD i can see the crimp more so than when I use a RCBS die,

My question does the LFCD ruin the brass for reload or does the crimp get reworked out when you resize the brass.

[brewman]

Alleykat,

I did also ask for some guidance as to wether my thinking was along the right lines or not at the end of my original post.

It would have been nice to have actually received some guidance but I guess now knowing that I don’t have a clue is a starting point, I can only improve from here

[Mike40-11]

I guess some of us are talking about different things here. I use the FCD for lead pistol bullets because I found that I don't get sufficient grip otherwise.

For rifle bullets, which I see now the OP was specifically talking about, a crimp isn't generally necessary, especially loading jacketed.

Seating just off the lands isn't primarily to give you a consistent start pressure, it prevents the bullet from having to jump a large gap to engage the rifling. This helps round to round consistency.

I crimp my Garand and 5.56 loads because they're autoloaders. It may not be necessary, but doesn't seem to hurt me. (Maybe I'd notice if I were a better shot...) 30-06 and .300 bolt gun loads don't get crimped. Brass life is a little shorter on the autoloaders, but that's probably more a factor of full length resizing than crimping.

[Alleykat]

Mike provided information to the OP that I should have! My apologies to the OP!

[vranasaurus]

I crimp some of my rounds.

All my .45 ACP gets run through a Lee FCD because I sometimes have a slight issue with bullett set back as the rounds feed.

My 44 mag gets crimped because I don't want bullett set back from recoil.

My 9mm I do because I have the die, it doesn't cause me any extra woirk in my progressive, and I don't want any set back while feeding.

I don't crimp my .223. If I experience any problems with bullett set back in the future I will certainly look at crimping.


A crimp is used to prevent bullet set back and really nothing else.

[Doodlebugger45]

I just received my FCDs today from UPS. I'm looking forward to trying them. I haven't been reloading very long. At first it was very perplexing trying to seat the bullets and crimp in the same stage. Eventually, I got it figured out enough to give a light roll crimp to my 45 Colt and 38/357 rounds.


Last night though I started digging through all the factory ammo that I had. It turns out that not even the factories are consistent about their crimping. I noticed that a box of Winchester 38 specials had a very prominent roll crimp to them, whereas the Hornady 357s didn't have any noticeable roll crimp at all, even though both of them are intended for revolvers. I even looked at some of the 30-30 cartridges I had. Again, the Hornady rounds had just a very very light crimp but the Federals had a bit more noticeable crimp in them. None of them were even close to the crimp I saw on one of my buddy's handloads for 454 Casull. Maybe this whole issue of crimping gets more attention than it deserves.

[RedHawk357]

Doodlebugger45, question for you if you don't mind...Did you get your FCDs from Lee Factory Service and if so how long did it take to get your order filled? Thanks

[Doodlebugger45]

I ordered mine from Cabela's and it took about a week to arrive.

[CrustyFN]

I have decided that I am not going to pay top price for good bullets, only to swage the middle of these bullets with a Lee FCD.

It is easy to damage bullets with a Lee FCD. These 6.5 SMK's were obviously overcrimped, but you cannot tell till you pull the bullet.

You can over crimp a bullet with any crimp die. It's not the fault of the die when it's not adjusted right.
Rusty