Returning my Kahr PM45

[Ben]

This gun has the POTENTIAL to be an excellent gun, but I'm having all sorts of problems with it.

Problem 1 (minor): The metal pin inserted into the follower worked it's way out within the first 50 rounds. I've contacted Kahr and they supposedly sent me a new one on March 3rd. I was very happy to hear this, but that one apparently got lost in the mail. They are sending me a second one via Fed-Ex.

Problem 2: The gun will NOT eject a live round because live rounds will NOT fit in the ejection port... no matter how far back I pull the slide. This includes all FMJ's and hollowpoints. This SHOULDN'T be a problem since I don't get light-strikes, but if I ever have a malfunction of any sort, I was always taught to "tap the magazine, rack the slide, and follow-up." If I can't eject a live round, what good is it?

Problem 3: The gun ejects the magazine while shooting. I'm shooting standard pressure Winchester, UMC, and Blazer FMJ 230's. I initially thought that MAYBE I was hitting the magazine eject button, but after modifying my grip, shooting both strong and support hand, I get the same results. The magazine ejects and therefore won't chamber the next round. It's happening to everyone who shoots the gun. There is no pattern to it. It'll do it for the first round, the last round or any round in between.

Problem 4: The trigger will NOT reset after firing. You have to wiggle the trigger back and forth until it clicks. Then it's reset. THERE IS PLENTY OF OIL IN THERE. How safe is that?

I'm really wanting to like this gun.

I will keep this thread alive until it gets worked out. Cross your fingers.
Ben

[pfsgators]

Ben

I own the PM9 and the PM40, absolutely NO issues with either after 200+ rounds thru both.

.45 in that small of a gun must be the issue.???

[DBAR]

Simple solution.... Send it back to them. I know that's not what you want to hear, but that's exactly what I'd do. I had a Kahr K40, and it worked great. I never had any kind of malfunction. I just decided to narrow the number of calibers down.

[Ben]

3-13-09: I'm awaiting an RMA#. I'm dealing with a really nice guy over at Kahr named Glen. I think he will take good care of my problem, and I HOPE they take care of the shipping costs. I'm going to try and deal with this exclusively through email so I can have a running log of our conversations.

Ben

[Ben]

DBAR,

Kahr really had the K9 nailed, so I figured the same basic design would work well in the 45. I can't help but think that the internals just weren't designed for that kind of recoil. We will see.

Ben

[DBAR]

I'm sure you just happen to be the un lucky guy that got one that doesn't work. All manufacturers will produce a bad one every once in a while. Even some of the really big names with great reputations. I think you'll find that most have been very happy with Kahr firearms, and you will be after they get the kinks out.

[johnwilliamson062]

I had some major problems with my Kahr before I sent several hundred rounds through it as the manual suggests. Not like what you are saying, but more problems than with any other gun out of box. Now I am over 300 rounds through it and the thing is amazing. I was thinking about selling it b/c my glock was grouping better and I was having trouble with the slide not closing on rounds(locking up). Just took a few boxes of blazer and everything seems to have worked itself out.

[Ben]

I've put about 250 rounds through the gun and the problems only seem to be getting worse. I like the feel of the gun and the way it handles recoil. Now we just need to make it reliable.

Ben

[Flapjack23]

I had to send back my PM40 for something (don't remember what). They fixed it and did a small mod to the slide to allow an unfired round to eject. Had a few problems with reliability that cleared up after the first few hundred rounds like the manual said. Overall, very pleased with Kahr. Give it a little time.

[Ben]

Flap,
I'm letting Kahr have a shot a fixing it. They deserve a chance as their reputation is quite good. I'm awaiting an RA# right now. I have WAY too much money invested in .45ACP ammo right now to not have a functional .45. If they can't get it right, I MAY just ask Kahr for a trade to a standard K-9 (the "original" Kahr).

Ben

[Ben]

3-16-09
Kahr didn't send me an RA# like I thought they were going to do today, but the Director of customer service wants to talk to me in person. I gave him my phone number and I'm awaiting his call. I'm getting anxious to get this gun fixed and functional.

Ben

[LanceOregon]

Ben:

If I was in your position, I would demand a replacement gun, and not accept a repair done on that gun. That gun really strikes me as being quite a lemon.

With so many serious issues, how could you ever trust that particular gun again?

I certainly would not, if I was in your shoes.

.

[LanceOregon]

I'm letting Kahr have a shot a fixing it. They deserve a chance as their reputation is quite good. I'm awaiting an RA# right now.

I don't understand. You mean that customer service did not give you a RA# when you explained all of these problems to them?

That is most odd.

.

[Ben]

Kahr IS going to be sending me an RA number. They told me they would. Right now, it's just a matter of WHEN. I have plenty of other carry weapons and will shoot the you-know-what out of the gun when I get it back to ensure that it is reliable before I ever carry it.

Ben

[LanceOregon]

Kahr IS going to be sending me an RA number. They told me they would. Right now, it's just a matter of WHEN

I understand everything that you said. I just don't understand why Kahr has to delay in giving you the return authorization number so you can ship the gun back, since the decision to grant the return number to you has already been made.

It does not seem to make much sense or good customer service to me for them to do that.

Back in the mid 80's I worked in tech support for one of the earliest hard disk subsystem manufacturers for personal computers. Hard drives back then were not anywhere near as reliable as they are today, so warranty returns were not uncommon.

Once we diagnosed that the drive had to be returned, we issued a return number to the customer immediately. I can hardly imagine how those customers would have reacted to me if I had instead told them that I would have to get back to them later to give them a return number.

.

[ckd]

Ben, I hope your experiences are different than ours, and other range friends, with Kahr and their service. We were all seduced by PM series, untill we put many rounds, or attempted to, through them.

When they work they are a joy, when they don't, they represent an unacceptable liability for defense. None of us, four original Kahr owners with plenty of experience, ever found Kahr's customer service to be above marginal, and all sold our guns back to the dealers we had purchased relaying our disappointment.

We hope they have improved in the last two years.

On the rare occasion I have sent other firearms back to the mfg. and they have been receptive and actually fixed whatever the issue was.

[Van55]

It's interesting to me that whenever someone puts up a post about having trouble with a particular make and model of handgun there are always a few who will chime in, saying they've owned that make and model for years and never had a problem with it. That's all well and good, but it doesn't do the guy who ended up with a lemon any favors.

Then there will be those who say that they will not be influenced by descriptions of negative experiences with a make or model on the internet because the writer probably never had any real first-hand experience with it.

When I invested in my Kahr PM9 it was with awareness that some people had had problems with the piece. I hoped that I wouldn't have similar problems, but my hope was in vain. I had to return mine to the factory at my own expense after having fits and starts in contacting Kahr customer service.

If I had my purchase to do over, I wouldn't buy a Kahr based on my experience and what I perceive to be a well above average number of serious problems people have had with theirs. And this is despite the fact that the PM9 is, for me, the ideal size, weight and caliber for a pocket pistol.

[Ace_Breaker]

It's interesting to me that whenever someone puts up a post about having trouble with a particular make and model of handgun there are always a few who will chime in, saying they've owned that make and model for years and never had a problem with it. That's all well and good, but it doesn't do the guy who ended up with a lemon any favors

Exactly!

I had a host of problems with my P45. I don't trust Kahr after that experience and won't be buying another.

[MikeGoob]

I know what you mean about wanting to like the gun. I had a few problems with my CW45 that were fixed.

For whatever reason I am simply the most accurate with this gun out of all the others I own. If all the kinks are worked out, Id rather carry the gun I shoot best.

[JohnKSa]

Small, light guns in heavy calibers = a lot more potential for problems.

What follows is purely my opinion.

I like the look of the PM series but I think they're too small & light. They're going to have a higher incidence of issues in my opinion and I won't own one. If I wanted to go that small I'd go for the MK9 which has a bit more heft due to the steel frame.

I think the CW9 is about the lower limit in size & weight for a good solid affordable 9mm. Smaller/lighter than that (or in a heavier caliber) and it better be a custom/semi-custom job.

I am NOT saying that every PM9 or CW45 is doomed to have problems, I just think that there will be a higher incidence of problems and a higher return rate on those pistols.

[SA2112]

Ben: Sorry you are having these problems.

I had problems with a Walther PPS in .40 S&W and over time, eventually I lost confidence in it and so sold it to someone I fully disclosed my issues about the pistol to.

Eventually, you have to ask yourself a question... is it worth it to try to "make a firearm fire" RELIABLY or do you just lose confidence and move onto something more reliable?

I've got ~ 15,000 rounds through my SIG p229 (.40 S&W) and I don't recall even ONE problem/misfire. At one time or another, I've sent every factory load imaginable down it and some "less than quality" handloads. Now that is a pistol I have absolute confidence in... and that confidence gives me something very precious... PEACE OF MIND.

I've got a new Glock 29 (10mm) I hope to develop that kind of confidence in. I've fired ~ 900 rounds of many, many different types of 10mm ammo through it without one problem... I'm getting to trust it like my SIG, but I'm not quite there yet.

I am NOT saying Kahr pistols are unreliable... but that maybe you got a lemon and its time to either demand a new one from the manufacturer, or if they won't replace it, move onto another pistol because not having confidence in your defensive firearm is ... uh... not good.

[Ben]

I spoke to the director of customer service at Kahr today and he issued me an RA# after I described the symptoms. He was very concerned with my situation and told me that he'd handle the shipping costs. Coincidentally, I received my new follower and trigger spring in the mail today too. So the magazine has been fixed.

I'm hesitant to replace the trigger spring before I send in the gun. JohnKSa, that is one of my concerns as well. Big caliber in a small and light frame = more problems. I'm thinking Kahr may be better off sticking with what they do best, all metal (steel framed auto-loaders). I would be all over a steel framed version of the PM45.

Ben

[SA2112]

Ben:

You said "I spoke to the director of customer service at Kahr today and he issued me an RA# after I described the symptoms. He was very concerned with my situation and told me that he'd handle the shipping costs."

You have an RA for exactly what?

The gun I hope.

If your new car/truck won't run reliably, using store bought gasoline, you would demand a remedy.

If your new gun won't fire reliably, using store bought ammo, do the same.

[Ben]

I must have not been very clear.
I'm sending the gun back to Kahr to have them fix it.
They are sending it back to me when it is fixed. If it is still a problem, I will contact them again and ask for a replacement. Most likely a different gun all together. I think that sounds pretty reasonable. This isn't my only gun, and after policing for 7 years, I actually prefer carrying full-sized weapons. I just really liked the feel of this gun. I'm not DEMANDING anything other than it work properly.

Sorry for the confusion,
Ben

[Playboypenguin]

If it does not get fixed ask for an MK40 instead. They are awesome.