Baby Eagle or Cbob?

[HutchyD]

Well, my 21st birthday is in less than a week (july 31). I have set aside some money for a pistol, and after my months and months of research, not to mention back and forth swaying, I still cannot decide what to do.

I have always been enamored with the baby eagle. the .45, although hefty, points so naturally for me and feels great in my hand. However, i also have a deep appreciation for the 1911 and its single stack profile and frame safety (if only the baby eagle was available with a frame safety!).

I am stuck fast between a baby eagle .45 and a Dan wesson Cbob. I realize that if i want to consider ccw, the baby eagle might be a bit bulky, but i love the profile and feel of it, not to mention it has a capacity edge of 4 rounds over the cbob.
On the other hand, the cbob is a beautiful gun, i have small hands so the thin 1911 grip is good for me, not to mention the placement of the frame mounted safety. I can afford either gun without losing sleep over the extra money id spend for the cbob, but i want a gun i can put a lot of rounds through at the range.

My biggest concerns about either gun are as follows: 1) the slide of the baby eagle does not extend far above the frame, in which it is seated, does this make the slide difficult to pull back? 2) I know that the cbobs are made to fit very tight, could this potentially be a risk factor for reliability in a hd/sd situation in the early parts of the gun's life?

I suppose what would be most helpful is if anyone who owned either of these guns could contribute their positive and negative experiences, especially anyone who has owned a commander length 1911 and a baby eagle! any contributions would be most appreciated! thanks

P.S. I have just seen the Dan wesson valor on the czusa website... does anyone have any experience with this gun? is there a noticeable difference in recoil between commander and full length 1911s?

[Gadget]

Ive got the Baby Eagle .45 and like you, enjoy the natural pointability of it. I've never experienced any problem with re-installing the slide on it. Buy what you feel is right for you and enjoy.

[rduckwor]

I don't have any of these guns, but I can tell you this: Short slides 1911's typically are a bit less reliable than the 5" models. The CBOB will take some breaking in to function reliably and maybe a trip to the gunsmith for mods as well. Ditto on the full length DW. Any 1911 platform should be proven reliable on the range BEFORE you count on it to save your life. Like in the 500 + round range. Make sure you shoot some of your chosen PD load in the gun to assure it feeds reliably.

Finally, before you plunk down penny one for any of these pistols, you need to try to find them to at least shoot briefly. The marketing wonks that write the prose describing these pistols are paid to SELL them. They don't necessarily have any experience SHOOTING them. Their words and your experiences will likely be widely separated.

Good luck,

RMD

[bubbaturbo]

I find the slides on Baby Eagles and CZs difficult to retract because so little protrudes above the frame, they are hard to grab onto. Reinstalling the slide has nothing to do with it.

I don't have any of these guns, but I can tell you this: Short slides 1911's typically are a bit less reliable than the 5" models. The CBOB will take some breaking in to function reliably and maybe a trip to the gunsmith for mods as well.

Like in the 500 + round range

I doubt you'll have any issues with the commander length slide on the DW.

[Smaug]

I know what bubbaturbo is talking about.

My wife and I were down to the CZ75 or Hi-Power. I preferred the CZ75, (which the Baby Eagle is based upon) she couldn't rack the slide of the CZ, since there's not much to grab onto. So we bought the Hi-Power.

If your hands are sweaty or something, I wonder if even a guy could still cock it?

I agree that one should theoretically shoot the gun before buying, but that isn't always doable.

[Smaug]

...so I'd get a full size, 1911. Sooner or later, most of us end up with one. Might as well START with one.

Buy a good one though, I'd say not less than $800 new. (if you buy new)

For a CCW gun, make that your second gun and get something smaller.

[HutchyD]

ok... I do not want suggestions for other guns to buy, but appreciate greatly the input n the cz type slides.
It is between these two guns... I'm just looking for positive or negative experience with either of these models. The only other gun I would even consider is the dw valor...is there a distinct advantage in the extra .75" of barrel on a fullsize 1911? It was my understanding that 4.25" was the shortest barrel for which the .45 auto round was designed to function properly. I realize that the BE has an even shorter barrel, but I also understand that they are once again shipping these guns with polygonal rifling, which helps add to accuracy?

I cannot operate the safety of the beagle one handed, so if I were to buy it and consider carrying, I would have to consider doing so with the safety off and hammer forward. However it does have the much lower price tag goin for it in addition to 4 more rounds in the mag. The cbob is beautiful and slim and I love the ed brown cobra treatment onthe bobtail!!! I don't want this gun to do it all but I'd like it to last a while and be reliable as well as something I can feed a lot of rounds through in practicing, I'm not interested in resale value... Decisions decisions

[MisterWilson]

Well if this is going to be your FIRST gun, you want something small & light enough for every day carry (you WILL be CCW'ing EVERY day, right?) yet large & comfortable enough to plink & have fun with.

A secondary consideration might be economy of ammo.



With that in mind, I'd say a Glock 19 would be a good first gun. If you absolutely MUST have a .45, perhaps a Glock 30 Short Frame.

If you have any concerns over the lack of a traditional safety, just keep in mind that any time it's chambered & ready to go it'll be in a quality holster (Right??). Any other time it'll be un-chambered & just as safe as anything else.



If neither of those options appeal to you....Get the bob-tail 1911. It just reeks of classiness and will conceal much much better in my opinion. Remember, you can always get range toys later. Right now you need something to keep upon your person comfortably.

[ranburr]

I don't have any of these guns, but I can tell you this: Short slides 1911's typically are a bit less reliable than the 5" models. The CBOB will take some breaking in to function reliably and maybe a trip to the gunsmith for mods as well. Ditto on the full length DW. Any 1911 platform should be proven reliable on the range BEFORE you count on it to save your life. Like in the 500 + round range. Make sure you shoot some of your chosen PD load in the gun to assure it feeds reliably.

I always find it funny that the supposed experts don't actually own the guns that they talk trash about. A Commander sized pistol is every bit as reliable as a full size 1911. You won't need a trip to the gunsmith for it to work jus fine. I took mine out of the box and fired 700 rounds the first outing. No malfunctions of any type. The other people that I know who have Cbobs have experienced similar results. Incidentally, all guns (not just 1911s) need to prove they are reliable on the range before you carry them for self defense.

ranburr

[bubbaturbo]

HutchyD:

ok... I do not want suggestions for other guns to buy

MisterWilson:

I'd say a Glock 19 would be a good first gun

Now that's funny although it probably wasn't meant to be.

[HutchyD]

ranburr and bubbaturbo...thank you for your input... Much appreciated. I sometimes think that it's silly to worry about which to get since I'll likely get the other sooner than later, but I have hopes of moving to nz before I'm old and although it is a very gun friendly place, handguns are not allowed. For this reason I want to make my time with a handgun sweet, since it may also be short. As I said, I am not lloking to sell when I move so resale is not a concern... I would likely gift it to a friend.

I can afford both but only with the proviso that whatever money I spend on this is that much less money for the cmmg 16" mid length medcon AR I am planning on buying, so a price break never hurt! The rifle I can take with me if I'm lucky enough to move

[David the Gnome]

I'm having trouble imagining anyone having difficulty choosing between one of the nicest and classiest 1911's ever designed and a baby eagle.



VS.



Shouldn't be that difficult.

[halo2304]

I have both. Well, my BE is in 9mm and it's a compact. Let's just say this...I'm planning on selling my Baby Eagle.

[Stevie-Ray]

I'd definitely go with the DW on this one.

[Timtheenchanted]

I have both the Baby Eagle semi-compact and the DW CBOB. I have had no issues at all with my CBOB, no jams at all firing fmj or jhp (gold dots mostly) in both standard and +p with 2000+ rounds in total. Same cannot be said for my baby eagle I have FTF stoppages with fmj that I traced back to a weak magazine spring. Replaced the spring now it functions 100% (so far). As far as shooting them I find the baby eagle much more comfortable for extended range sessions especially shooting +p loads. Both guns are far more accurate than I am so that is a toss up. That being said the CBOB is my carry pistol due to its 100% reliability for me as well as its slim profile.

As far as the low slide on the baby eagle I use the rear sight as well as the cocking serrations to retract the slide and it provides plenty of hold to easily rack the slide.

Personally I find myself shooting my Baby eagle more often as the slide in frame design coupled with the weight of it make the felt recoil a lot less than with the Cbob.

Another note is that my fiance (who loves her witness compact .45) hates shooting my Cbob because of the "sharp" checkering on the frontstrap and the slightly loose fit of the grip safety irritates her hands under recoil. I have heard similar complaints from friends about the Cbob, but personally I don't notice any discomfort anymore.

[HutchyD]

wow tim, thank you very much!!! I regret to say I'm still torn. All things considered this will mostly be used as a range gun, but i'd like to knowi could carry it if need be.

I have heArd of these FTf issues due to weak mag springs... For what it's worth I am not a huge fan of front strap checkering either and if I go with the cbob I will likely be putting
some pearce finger grooves under the
wooden grips.

[HutchyD]

tim, have you had a problem feeding hp rounds inthe beagle? It seems like I have heard of some rounds not feeding properly possibly due to their flat tips, and I would like to ascertain whether this is due to the mag spring issue or is another seperate problem.
Whatabout dimensionally, as far as the logistics of carrying the beagle... If you had the confidence in it's performance to do so? Do you think it is too wide/heavy for iwb carry?

[rduckwor]

"I always find it funny that the supposed experts don't actually own the guns that they talk trash about. A Commander sized pistol is every bit as reliable as a full size 1911. You won't need a trip to the gunsmith for it to work jus fine. I took mine out of the box and fired 700 rounds the first outing. No malfunctions of any type. The other people that I know who have Cbobs have experienced similar results. Incidentally, all guns (not just 1911s) need to prove they are reliable on the range before you carry them for self defense.

ranburr"

I humbly disagree with your statements and sadly, I do have experience with short slide 1911's. I'm glad your experiences were more positive than mine.

Try both guns and buy what you decide you want.

RMD

[HutchyD]

rmd...I appreciate your input and understand that whatever gun I get, it will have many rounds through it before it gets carried anywhere with me. Have these bad experiences of yours been with commander length 1911s or perhaps even shorter ones? Thanks

[Davis]

I like CZ, they make a great product. So, I certainly recommend their DW's.

Davis

[PT111]

I do not have great experience with either model or 1911's in general but I have never heard or read of anyone having problems with a DW CBOB .45. Now with others I have heard of all sorts of problems especially with the shorter ones but never with a DW. Every review I have ever read says it is 100% right out of the box. Not so with other 1911's especially Kimber.

Closest thing I have to a 1911 is the predecessor of it, a 1910, .

[Timtheenchanted]

My Baby eagle has only had ftf stoppages with low pressure range fmj ammunition. The double tap +p dold dots have functioned perfectly in it. As far as carrying it the BE is not much thicker than a single stack, it carries just fine under an untucked shirt or light jacket. The other issue is weight. It is an all steel heavy gun carrying 11 rounds of 45 acp. It is heavy for a carry gun, you definately aren't going to forget its there. This being said I have carried it in relative comfort. You just have to dress around it.

[txbirddog]

There is nothing wrong with a "quality" commander size such as the DW. If it does take about 500 rounds to break it in, that should a couple weekends.

Don't know about the BE, but if you go with the DW, make sure you get a good belt and it will be comfortable aaallllllll day long.

Happy Birthday.

[imp]

I have 2 CZ's and two Witness pistols ( copies of the CZ, much like the baby eagle). My witness P-carry is very much like the Baby Eagle .45, same barrel size, mag capacity, etc. The only difference is the grip contour and placement of the safety.

The only thing I can suggest, should you go with the B.E., is have the feed ramp polished by a good gunsmith. Out of the box, mine hated hollowpoints, but after a little work, it eats a steady diet of speer gold dots, and I'm 5K-6K rounds trouble free with my P-carry, which is more than I can say for my Sig 220.

[Davis]

The Baby Eagle parts are largely made by Tanfoglio. They have a different grip feel than the Witness, but largely are the same pistols.

Davis