223 brass

Trapp · August 10, 2007, 05:27 PM

I have a bunch of 223 brass that I am going to start loading. It is a mix of LC-00,02,04,07 Winchester, PMC, FC-. I am going to load some 65gr SBT (sierra gamekings) with Varget.

It will be shot through an AR-15 with a 1 in 9" 16" bbl. The purpose of this load will be for deer hunting. Very controlled shots to the base of the head (spine connection). My distances will be no further than 75yds (I know, the boattail wasn't necessary).

The question I have is about the brass itself. How much deviation at 75yds or shorter am I going to see between the different pieces? Are we talking major differences in FPS? pressure? POI?

I am going to use Winchester brass as my hunting load, as I have the most of it. I just don't really see a need to get rid of the other if it not going to make a noticable difference...

Trapper L · August 10, 2007, 08:24 PM

Trapp, I would separate the brass into headstamps and see how they shoot. The military will probably shoot a little lower but that's a maybe at best. I wouldn't expect a huge amount of change in the POI at 75 yds but you're talking neck shooting- that's a small target even at 75 yds for "maybe" ammo.

Trapp · August 10, 2007, 08:38 PM

I think I have decided to use the winchester as my sighting in and hunting brass. The other stuff I will use to practise my grouping. I am interested in what differences there will be.

I will make sure to log it and revisit this post later to share my findings.

amamnn · August 13, 2007, 02:50 AM

If you are going to be loading for an AR, you would do well to get a primer pocket uniformer if you don't already have one. Also, when you load the LC brassyou will no doubt need to remove the primer crimp. There are several good tools for this. You can also use any chamfer tool that is not pointed (you don't want to enlarge the flash hole) to do the job. Sierra has an excellent section in the Exterior Ballistics section of their manual and possibly on their website that deals with the differences in loading for service rifles and their civilian counterparts.

Alleykat · August 13, 2007, 09:35 AM

At 75 yds., your groups won't be measurably different, using the different brass headstamps. @ 75 yds., you could kill a deer with a Glock with no optics.

**Unclenick** · August 13, 2007, 10:21 AM

You still should work up the loads separately for each headstamp. Winchester brass is typically lighter (less brass, more case capacity) than other brands and LC in particular. The loads developed in the Winchester case will therefore produce higher pressures in the smaller volume available in the heavier brass.

The other factor is difference in neck thickness and hardness. This affects neck tension which affects start pressure which affects peak pressure for a given load.

Alleykat · August 16, 2007, 06:19 AM

Unclenick: There IS treatment available for obsessive-compulsive disorder!

LC brass has about the same case capacity as any commercial brass, in .223; not so for .308. I've never seen a difference in performance, going from brand-to-brand.

Lavid2002 · August 16, 2007, 02:49 PM

rely on it to shoot the spine at 75 yards i would take the time to seperate the shells for better accuracy.

August 10, 2007, 05:27 PM	#1
Trapp Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: KTN Posts: 1,221	223 brass I have a bunch of 223 brass that I am going to start loading. It is a mix of LC-00,02,04,07 Winchester, PMC, FC-. I am going to load some 65gr SBT (sierra gamekings) with Varget. It will be shot through an AR-15 with a 1 in 9" 16" bbl. The purpose of this load will be for deer hunting. Very controlled shots to the base of the head (spine connection). My distances will be no further than 75yds (I know, the boattail wasn't necessary). The question I have is about the brass itself. How much deviation at 75yds or shorter am I going to see between the different pieces? Are we talking major differences in FPS? pressure? POI? I am going to use Winchester brass as my hunting load, as I have the most of it. I just don't really see a need to get rid of the other if it not going to make a noticable difference...

August 13, 2007, 10:21 AM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,742	You still should work up the loads separately for each headstamp. Winchester brass is typically lighter (less brass, more case capacity) than other brands and LC in particular. The loads developed in the Winchester case will therefore produce higher pressures in the smaller volume available in the heavier brass. The other factor is difference in neck thickness and hardness. This affects neck tension which affects start pressure which affects peak pressure for a given load. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

August 16, 2007, 02:49 PM	#8
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	If your going to rely on it to shoot the spine at 75 yards i would take the time to seperate the shells for better accuracy.

August 10, 2007, 08:24 PM	#2
Trapper L Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 804	Trapp, I would separate the brass into headstamps and see how they shoot. The military will probably shoot a little lower but that's a maybe at best. I wouldn't expect a huge amount of change in the POI at 75 yds but you're talking neck shooting- that's a small target even at 75 yds for "maybe" ammo.

August 10, 2007, 08:38 PM	#3
Trapp Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: KTN Posts: 1,221	I think I have decided to use the winchester as my sighting in and hunting brass. The other stuff I will use to practise my grouping. I am interested in what differences there will be. I will make sure to log it and revisit this post later to share my findings.

August 13, 2007, 02:50 AM	#4
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	If you are going to be loading for an AR, you would do well to get a primer pocket uniformer if you don't already have one. Also, when you load the LC brassyou will no doubt need to remove the primer crimp. There are several good tools for this. You can also use any chamfer tool that is not pointed (you don't want to enlarge the flash hole) to do the job. Sierra has an excellent section in the Exterior Ballistics section of their manual and possibly on their website that deals with the differences in loading for service rifles and their civilian counterparts.

August 13, 2007, 09:35 AM	#5
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	At 75 yds., your groups won't be measurably different, using the different brass headstamps. @ 75 yds., you could kill a deer with a Glock with no optics.

August 16, 2007, 06:19 AM	#7
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	Unclenick: There IS treatment available for obsessive-compulsive disorder! LC brass has about the same case capacity as any commercial brass, in .223; not so for .308. I've never seen a difference in performance, going from brand-to-brand.