Llama micromax .380 quality?

bullfrog99 · July 24, 2007, 12:22 AM

About seven years ago I purchased a Llama micromax 380 acp. It was love at first sight, essentially a 2/3 copy of the 1911 except for the blowback action. I really liked the gun up til the point I noticed it was rapidly disassembling itself, badly peening the frame, and wearing a hole in the top of the barrel deep enough to worry me. Needless to say I let it go, but not without a bit of sorrow. As I said it has been seven years since then, and my hope is that Llama quality control has improved... can anyone testify as to the current quality of the llama micromax (assuming it is still in production)?

Magyar · July 24, 2007, 09:09 AM

Sorry to read about your Llama being in that condition...I had two Llama's, 9mm & a .45, never had any of these problems...I shot them fairly regularly...
Your post will give some credence to those that have stated about their "soft-steel" POS.
Anyway, they have been out of production/business for years....

res1b3uq · July 24, 2007, 03:03 PM

I had one of these and had very good luck with it. I finally sold it because of the expense of ammo and lack of power. Shortly after that llama closed their doors for good. Llama, Star, and Astra are all gone. Shame too, because some good, inexpensive pistols came out of Spain.

JR47 · July 24, 2007, 03:45 PM

I have had one of the mini-frame Llama pistols in .32 ACP for years. It only feeds ball ammo, but has proven accurate and reliable for the limited amount of shooting it gets. No unusual wear noticed yet, after about 1000 rounds.

michael t · July 25, 2007, 12:16 AM

Llama closed the doors. Made to many junk guns . Buy a Bersa 380 its 10 times the pistol a Llama was.
Better yet find a Colt Mustang (expensive) best little 380 1911 style ever.

ranburr · July 25, 2007, 02:30 AM

Llama is the company that gave Spanish gunmakers a bad name. Find a Star model S.

bullfrog99 · July 25, 2007, 11:46 PM

I'm sorry to hear they are no more, but given the state of things, I can't say i'm suprised... Was there a particluar era where their guns were of a good quality? maybe early imports were better made than the later junk?

Bill DeShivs · July 26, 2007, 03:50 AM

The late 1950s-late 1960s Llamas were pretty good guns.
A .380 of this era will not have a vented rib (possibly no rib at all) on the slide.

Rex B · September 10, 2007, 03:32 PM

"The late 1950s-late 1960s Llamas were pretty good guns.
A .380 of this era will not have a vented rib (possibly no rib at all) on the slide."

Bill, any other way to identify those?
I am wondering if my mini-1911 might be from that era.

Bill DeShivs · September 10, 2007, 04:15 PM

Can you post a picture?

Peter M. Eick · September 10, 2007, 04:29 PM

From what I have been able to figure out, is if the 380 Llama is blowback it may be so-so in quality. If it is a locked breech gun like the Colt Gov 380, then every one I have seen is quite well made.

I have not seen any locked breech ones for a while though. I guess those that have recognized the value and kept them.

Rex B · September 10, 2007, 04:41 PM

This one is locked breech, with barrel lugs, link etc just like a full-grown 1911.
It does appear to be well made.
It also appears to be unfired. The feed ramp has no marks in the bluing.

I'll see if I can post a picture or two tonight.

Rex B · September 10, 2007, 07:53 PM

OK, here's pics next to my Sistema, for scale.
Not very good pictures, sorry.

Is there a way to make these come out inline on this board?

Peter M. Eick · September 10, 2007, 08:59 PM

That looks like a nice one. Do you have Handloader's "Pet loads"? If so the article is about that type of Llama. Ken Waters had really good things to say about it. I know I love my little Colt Gov 380 which is basically the same thing.

Rex B · September 10, 2007, 09:47 PM

No, don't have "Pet Loads" but I've not yet gotten into reloading.
I guess the section on .380 ACP is where that is?
I'll see if I can get someone to shoot copies of that part for me.

Thanks

Bill DeShivs · September 10, 2007, 09:55 PM

Rex
Yours is one of the good ones. The later models with vent rib got pretty bad in the fit and finish department.

Magyar · September 11, 2007, 01:27 PM

Rex, I like your taste in pistols, especially the Sistema...Both will serve you well. Veering off for a moment, besides grips & trigger, what else has been done to the Argentinian?

Rex, thanks for the detail explanation below...You did a good job and your initial investment wasn't too bad...

Rex B · September 11, 2007, 01:58 PM

Magyar
This was one of those $249 beaters Gander Mountain was selling a while back. I bought 2. Both were rusty with 0% finish, cracked grips etc. Well-worn, like they had been dehorned. Both had issues with safety.

I stripped and reblued with cold blue. Grips & trigger of course. Wilson drop-in beavertail. New barrel, but not a good one, so that may be temporary. Flat mainspring housing. All new pins and springs, firing pin retainer. Turned out pretty well I think, and I retained all the original parts in case I wanted to restore it to original. Action is crisp.
The 2nd one is all apart now. I am not going to try to keep it original, as I want to build it up a bit. It has some nicks in the frame which I filled. I'll probably use Gun-Kote or similar on that one, have not decided on the color. I also have a Kimber target sight which I want to use, so will have to mill the slide. I have a RIA ring hammer, wide safety, RIA slide stop, Wilson sear, trigger, beavertail, barrel bushing, springs & pins for it. I just need a decent barrel.
Between these 1911s and ARs, I haven't had so much fun since building models as a kid

Rex B · September 11, 2007, 02:03 PM

Bill, as soon as I looked at this one I knew it wasn't typical of the Micro-Max and similar late-model Llama .380s I had seen. This gun has a fit and finish approaching Colt standards. Some of the internals aren't as smooth. For example, the barrel link had sharp corners, and the barrel lugs show signs of hand-filing to fit. But the frame and slide look good. And the barrel definitely looks new, with crisp rifling and zero dark spots in bore or chamber. I have not detail-stripped it, so that's about all I can testify to.
It's just a little jewel of a gun. I'm looking for another one already. I understand they also made them in .32 and in .22LR.

Bill DeShivs · September 11, 2007, 03:15 PM

Rex
See if you can find a Star DK (Starfire) .380. They are even better!
Your Llama was built when production was at it's high point. The later models don't compare.
BTW- they made your model in steel and "Airlight" (aluminum framed) versions-so now you have to find a least 3 more than you thought!

Rex B · September 11, 2007, 03:35 PM

Star DK, huh? Never heard of it, but I'll look around.

I thought the Llama Airlite versions were only in the lower calibers.
I've been poking around the 'net for more information on these, also checked the used bookstore, not much luck. I did find an ebay seller with rero owners manuals.
Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

Bill DeShivs · September 11, 2007, 06:08 PM

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/forum
There is a Spanish pistol forum there.

10-96 · September 12, 2007, 10:58 AM

I was tickled silly with my little old Llama .380 for quite a few years. Over a period of time- half way down the tube and between the 12 and 2 o'clock position the bbl became a smooth bore. Soft steel? I dunno- beats all I ever saw.

Rex B · September 12, 2007, 12:31 PM

that's interesting. What model was it?
Did you replace the barrel?

10-96 · September 12, 2007, 12:51 PM

No, I mentioned it to Frank Shipley, a gunsmith here in town, and he took an interest into the cause and effects and I ended up leaving with a neat little Iver Johnson Pony .380- I really liked that one too. Not real sure how I got talked out of that one, but it had something to do with a Browning A-5.

July 24, 2007, 12:22 AM	#1
bullfrog99 Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Location: Southeast Michigan Posts: 811	Llama micromax .380 quality? About seven years ago I purchased a Llama micromax 380 acp. It was love at first sight, essentially a 2/3 copy of the 1911 except for the blowback action. I really liked the gun up til the point I noticed it was rapidly disassembling itself, badly peening the frame, and wearing a hole in the top of the barrel deep enough to worry me. Needless to say I let it go, but not without a bit of sorrow. As I said it has been seven years since then, and my hope is that Llama quality control has improved... can anyone testify as to the current quality of the llama micromax (assuming it is still in production)?

July 24, 2007, 03:03 PM	#3
res1b3uq Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2005 Posts: 111	llama .380 I had one of these and had very good luck with it. I finally sold it because of the expense of ammo and lack of power. Shortly after that llama closed their doors for good. Llama, Star, and Astra are all gone. Shame too, because some good, inexpensive pistols came out of Spain.

July 26, 2007, 03:50 AM	#8
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,106	The late 1950s-late 1960s Llamas were pretty good guns. A .380 of this era will not have a vented rib (possibly no rib at all) on the slide. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

September 10, 2007, 03:32 PM	#9
Rex B Member Join Date: March 22, 2007 Posts: 88	Early models "The late 1950s-late 1960s Llamas were pretty good guns. A .380 of this era will not have a vented rib (possibly no rib at all) on the slide." Bill, any other way to identify those? I am wondering if my mini-1911 might be from that era.

September 10, 2007, 04:15 PM	#10
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,106	Can you post a picture? __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 24, 2007, 09:09 AM	#2
Magyar Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,581	Sorry to read about your Llama being in that condition...I had two Llama's, 9mm & a .45, never had any of these problems...I shot them fairly regularly... Your post will give some credence to those that have stated about their "soft-steel" POS. Anyway, they have been out of production/business for years....

July 24, 2007, 03:45 PM	#4
JR47 Junior member Join Date: August 9, 2005 Location: North Georgia Posts: 2,228	I have had one of the mini-frame Llama pistols in .32 ACP for years. It only feeds ball ammo, but has proven accurate and reliable for the limited amount of shooting it gets. No unusual wear noticed yet, after about 1000 rounds.

July 25, 2007, 12:16 AM	#5
michael t Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: Out back Ky Posts: 4,044	Llama closed the doors. Made to many junk guns . Buy a Bersa 380 its 10 times the pistol a Llama was. Better yet find a Colt Mustang (expensive) best little 380 1911 style ever.

July 25, 2007, 02:30 AM	#6
ranburr Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2006 Location: TX Posts: 1,278	Llama is the company that gave Spanish gunmakers a bad name. Find a Star model S.

July 25, 2007, 11:46 PM	#7
bullfrog99 Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Location: Southeast Michigan Posts: 811	I'm sorry to hear they are no more, but given the state of things, I can't say i'm suprised... Was there a particluar era where their guns were of a good quality? maybe early imports were better made than the later junk?

September 10, 2007, 04:29 PM	#11
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	From what I have been able to figure out, is if the 380 Llama is blowback it may be so-so in quality. If it is a locked breech gun like the Colt Gov 380, then every one I have seen is quite well made. I have not seen any locked breech ones for a while though. I guess those that have recognized the value and kept them.

September 10, 2007, 04:41 PM	#12
Rex B Member Join Date: March 22, 2007 Posts: 88	locked This one is locked breech, with barrel lugs, link etc just like a full-grown 1911. It does appear to be well made. It also appears to be unfired. The feed ramp has no marks in the bluing. I'll see if I can post a picture or two tonight.

September 10, 2007, 08:59 PM	#14
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	That looks like a nice one. Do you have Handloader's "Pet loads"? If so the article is about that type of Llama. Ken Waters had really good things to say about it. I know I love my little Colt Gov 380 which is basically the same thing.

September 10, 2007, 09:47 PM	#15
Rex B Member Join Date: March 22, 2007 Posts: 88	Pet loads No, don't have "Pet Loads" but I've not yet gotten into reloading. I guess the section on .380 ACP is where that is? I'll see if I can get someone to shoot copies of that part for me. Thanks Last edited by Rex B; September 10, 2007 at 09:48 PM. Reason: added info

September 10, 2007, 09:55 PM	#16
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,106	Rex Yours is one of the good ones. The later models with vent rib got pretty bad in the fit and finish department. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

September 11, 2007, 01:27 PM	#17
Magyar Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,581	Rex, I like your taste in pistols, especially the Sistema...Both will serve you well. Veering off for a moment, besides grips & trigger, what else has been done to the Argentinian? Rex, thanks for the detail explanation below...You did a good job and your initial investment wasn't too bad... Last edited by Magyar; September 11, 2007 at 06:47 PM.

September 11, 2007, 01:58 PM	#18
Rex B Member Join Date: March 22, 2007 Posts: 88	Sistema Magyar This was one of those $249 beaters Gander Mountain was selling a while back. I bought 2. Both were rusty with 0% finish, cracked grips etc. Well-worn, like they had been dehorned. Both had issues with safety. I stripped and reblued with cold blue. Grips & trigger of course. Wilson drop-in beavertail. New barrel, but not a good one, so that may be temporary. Flat mainspring housing. All new pins and springs, firing pin retainer. Turned out pretty well I think, and I retained all the original parts in case I wanted to restore it to original. Action is crisp. The 2nd one is all apart now. I am not going to try to keep it original, as I want to build it up a bit. It has some nicks in the frame which I filled. I'll probably use Gun-Kote or similar on that one, have not decided on the color. I also have a Kimber target sight which I want to use, so will have to mill the slide. I have a RIA ring hammer, wide safety, RIA slide stop, Wilson sear, trigger, beavertail, barrel bushing, springs & pins for it. I just need a decent barrel. Between these 1911s and ARs, I haven't had so much fun since building models as a kid

September 11, 2007, 02:03 PM	#19
Rex B Member Join Date: March 22, 2007 Posts: 88	good ones Bill, as soon as I looked at this one I knew it wasn't typical of the Micro-Max and similar late-model Llama .380s I had seen. This gun has a fit and finish approaching Colt standards. Some of the internals aren't as smooth. For example, the barrel link had sharp corners, and the barrel lugs show signs of hand-filing to fit. But the frame and slide look good. And the barrel definitely looks new, with crisp rifling and zero dark spots in bore or chamber. I have not detail-stripped it, so that's about all I can testify to. It's just a little jewel of a gun. I'm looking for another one already. I understand they also made them in .32 and in .22LR.

September 11, 2007, 03:15 PM	#20
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,106	Rex See if you can find a Star DK (Starfire) .380. They are even better! Your Llama was built when production was at it's high point. The later models don't compare. BTW- they made your model in steel and "Airlight" (aluminum framed) versions-so now you have to find a least 3 more than you thought! __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

September 11, 2007, 03:35 PM	#21
Rex B Member Join Date: March 22, 2007 Posts: 88	alternatives Star DK, huh? Never heard of it, but I'll look around. I thought the Llama Airlite versions were only in the lower calibers. I've been poking around the 'net for more information on these, also checked the used bookstore, not much luck. I did find an ebay seller with rero owners manuals. Any other suggestions? Thanks!

September 11, 2007, 06:08 PM	#22
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,106	http://www.gunboards.com/forums/forum There is a Spanish pistol forum there. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

September 12, 2007, 10:58 AM	#23
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,190	I was tickled silly with my little old Llama .380 for quite a few years. Over a period of time- half way down the tube and between the 12 and 2 o'clock position the bbl became a smooth bore. Soft steel? I dunno- beats all I ever saw. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

September 12, 2007, 12:31 PM	#24
Rex B Member Join Date: March 22, 2007 Posts: 88	barrel that's interesting. What model was it? Did you replace the barrel?

September 12, 2007, 12:51 PM	#25
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,190	No, I mentioned it to Frank Shipley, a gunsmith here in town, and he took an interest into the cause and effects and I ended up leaving with a neat little Iver Johnson Pony .380- I really liked that one too. Not real sure how I got talked out of that one, but it had something to do with a Browning A-5. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.