I have this cannon can anyone tell me about it?

megabyte · July 17, 2007, 11:32 AM

I have this small cannon weighs 9.5lbs its 8-3/4" long with a small fuse hole. I think its a signal cannon but im not sure any thoughts?

James K · July 17, 2007, 01:02 PM

You have too many "http"s in your URL, but I did manage to look at the cannon. I think it is safe to say it is not a signal gun (they are usually a lot bigger and have a mount) or anything made for a serious purpose. It is probably a one-off turned out for fun, possibly by a youngster in a trade school machineshop.

Note that there is no way to mount it, or even to attach it to a stock of any kind.

Here is the picture:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b.../cannon002.jpg

Jim

Jim Watson · July 17, 2007, 02:28 PM

Agree.
Friend of mine has one similar only better made with flanged muzzle and cascabel knob... but he could not figure out how to make the trunnions.

megabyte · July 17, 2007, 03:04 PM

Would it sit in a cradle? or could it be used as a portible weapon? Because like you I have noticed there is no metal holders which is common on cannons to be mounted to wooden holders.

James K · July 18, 2007, 10:52 PM

In the real world, the trunions (the round crosspieces that support the cannon on the carriage and allow it to be raised and lowered) were cast as part of the barrel. But that would be beyond my hypothetical high school student, so they were left off.

Jim

megabyte · July 19, 2007, 08:35 AM

I have seen no trunions before in other cannons. This is why I think its a signal cannon as it doesnt matter about the elevation or aiming it. Could it be mounted into a wall as a shotgun. Someplace where elevation is not important. Like a murder hole in a wall or gate?

Double J · July 19, 2007, 10:07 AM

That's an interesting piece. The pits around the touch hole would indicate use. Some of the early canon were lashed to a wooden cradle or stock.
--The scratch toward the breech end, was this dug out of the ground? Pretty neat.

The Tourist · July 19, 2007, 11:38 AM

There used to be something called a 'punt gun.'

It sat on a fixture on the prow of a boat and was used to kill ducks by the score to sell to restaurants.

I have never actually seen this gun--only heard about it.

Could this be it?

Scorch · July 19, 2007, 11:45 AM

While I have never actually handled a punt gun, I have seen pictures of them. They were typically large bore, 8 bore or possibly larger, with a 5-6' barrel.

The Tourist · July 19, 2007, 11:47 AM

Scorch,

I did find this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_gun

James K · July 19, 2007, 12:34 PM

Punt guns? Murder holes? Signal guns? Wow! Maybe used by King Arthur to keep Mordred away from Guinivere?

Anyone ever seen a punt gun? A signal gun? That is neither.

Speculation knows no bounds, and stories can be made up from now until the devil buys ice skates, but I still can't see something like that having any serious purpose or any real value. If I am wrong, and it sells for a million bucks, great, but I wouldn't borrow against that million just yet.

Jim

The Tourist · July 19, 2007, 12:38 PM

"Punt guns?...Speculation knows no bounds."

Jim, there's an old expression, "When you hear hoof beats, think horses and not zebras."

That means that the simplest explanation is probably the correct one.

The reason I thought 'punt guns' is that they were probably made by the bushel basket full as a cheap way to hunt waterfowl. Further, a punt gun needed to be mounted, it was not a hand weapon (that I know of.)

Besides, speculation in a forum is fun!

Bill DeShivs · July 19, 2007, 01:40 PM

Try www.cannon-mania.com

megabyte · July 22, 2007, 09:46 AM

Im not sure its a punt gun. This looks more like a large shotgun. Click on the link and go to the video on youtube. Wow what a great video of the punt gun shooting a whole wall of clay targets with one shot. My "object" is more cannon than rifle. Im not sure you could hunt with it as its very small and compact the aim would be more for repelling close targets with a scatter effect then a precise aimed shot for hunting fowl or other flying objects. I think its for controlling the crew or repelling boarders from enemy ships maybe to cover your enemy while trading or tied along side. What gets me is every type of cannon I have seen uses trunions to secure it to a wooden frame. This one must sit in some kind of cradle. I have never heard of a portible cannon hand held so I think it must sit in a cradle.

**4V50 Gary** · July 22, 2007, 10:18 AM

It's not a punt gun. Punt guns were huge affairs that were boat mounted and used by market hunters to harvest geese or ducks. Muzzleloaders, the shortest I've seen had about 6' long barrels and there were larger ones too. To aim it, you rowed the boat and pointed in towards the flock and once close enough, the trigger was pulled.

This one is probably a child's toy. As observed, there's no trunions to mount it on a carriage or to make it into a swivel gun either.

RJay · July 22, 2007, 03:05 PM

It's not punt gun, good grief!

It's It's not a hand cannon or pole arm, good grief.

It's not a weapon of any type, good grief

: If you note, the center section and bell appear to have been machined, unless El Cid had a machine shop it's modern , in this context modern is the last hundred years. These little cannons were quite popular until the mid 1940's as 4th of July noise makers and yes, it could be used as a signal devise to start a special event such as a foot race or boat race.

megabyte · July 22, 2007, 04:28 PM

How does it mount? It looks like its been under water for a couple hundred years to old to be a modern cannon. A childs toy at 10 lbs. Hmmm strong children using cannons to play pirate? Ok any one else want to make some humor. Seriously I have no clue and need help.

RJay · July 22, 2007, 04:49 PM

Megabyte, I don't know what to tell you, you have been given help and told what it was. This isn't some mystery one of a kind handgun. It's a 4th of July noisemaker. Good luck, Vaya con Dios.

Bill DeShivs · July 22, 2007, 04:50 PM

It probably is a toy cannon. I have a small collection of real, small cannon.
Mini cannon were very common prior to WW2.

Ruger4570 · July 23, 2007, 10:19 PM

Well, my take on it is that it may have been a toy cannon of some sort. The dimentions are too small to have ever been a serious contender as a punt gun. The few examples of punt guns I have seen are large bores with barrels measuring in feet, noy inches.
A dollar bill is approx 2 1/2" X 6" How long can the barrel on this be, 8 inches give or take. It sure wouldn't be very effective to drive off Pirates. It can be no better than any other smooth bore "pistol" of the past.

James K · July 23, 2007, 10:41 PM

I didn't mention it because it isn't really relevant, but I have a small brass cannon around somewhere that a cousin made in high school shop as a copy of a ship's gun. It is only about 4 inches long, but it has a touchhole and he fired it tied to a bench. He never got around to the carriage, but it does have trunions.

Jim

Scorch · July 23, 2007, 11:16 PM

Quote:

It looks like its been under water for a couple hundred years to old to be a modern cannon.

Try shooting BP in a rifle and not cleaning it. It will look just like that before not too long.

megabyte · July 24, 2007, 10:46 AM

Would a toy cannon have no trunions? Wouldnt it be easier and more recognizable to make it with trunions and mount it in a wooden cradle to give it the classic cannon look? While I agree its very small and wouldnt be used for serious combat ship to ship. But im not convinced it was used for childs play. Kids playing with fire and fuses (the fuse hole) how dangerous would that be. Lets just look down the barrel while firing it. Common that just doesnt make sense. I could see a july 4th fireworks cannon or morter but I have never seen one and Im still puzzled as to what this cannon sat in to make it usable. I have seen many cannons before mostly in Key West off ships that have been underwater for a long time and this cannon looks like its been underwater for a couple of centuries the pitting is way too deep for common corrosion. Even left outside in a yard it wouldnt look this pitted only salt water could do this while I could be wrong im basing it on what I have seen off real ships that have been underwater for a long time.

Bill DeShivs · July 24, 2007, 02:06 PM

The world was different back then. We didn't need the government to protect us from ourselves.
Toy cannon were common, M-80s, Silver salutes, firecrackers measured in inches, shooting .22s in the back yard.
We had tools witout safety guards!

megabyte · July 24, 2007, 07:12 PM

LOL I still do that today, M-80's or M-120's daisy chained is alot of fun. I still dont think children would play with a cannon. Just too dangerous.

July 17, 2007, 11:32 AM	#1
megabyte Member Join Date: July 17, 2007 Posts: 20	I have this cannon can anyone tell me about it? I have this small cannon weighs 9.5lbs its 8-3/4" long with a small fuse hole. I think its a signal cannon but im not sure any thoughts? Last edited by megabyte; July 17, 2007 at 03:03 PM.

July 19, 2007, 11:45 AM	#9
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	While I have never actually handled a punt gun, I have seen pictures of them. They were typically large bore, 8 bore or possibly larger, with a 5-6' barrel. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 19, 2007, 01:40 PM	#13
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,001	Try www.cannon-mania.com __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 22, 2007, 10:18 AM	#15
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,877	It's not a punt gun. Punt guns were huge affairs that were boat mounted and used by market hunters to harvest geese or ducks. Muzzleloaders, the shortest I've seen had about 6' long barrels and there were larger ones too. To aim it, you rowed the boat and pointed in towards the flock and once close enough, the trigger was pulled. This one is probably a child's toy. As observed, there's no trunions to mount it on a carriage or to make it into a swivel gun either. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 22, 2007, 03:05 PM	#16
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	It's not punt gun, good grief! It's It's not a hand cannon or pole arm, good grief. It's not a weapon of any type, good grief : If you note, the center section and bell appear to have been machined, unless El Cid had a machine shop it's modern , in this context modern is the last hundred years. These little cannons were quite popular until the mid 1940's as 4th of July noise makers and yes, it could be used as a signal devise to start a special event such as a foot race or boat race. Last edited by RJay; July 22, 2007 at 03:41 PM.

July 17, 2007, 01:02 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	You have too many "http"s in your URL, but I did manage to look at the cannon. I think it is safe to say it is not a signal gun (they are usually a lot bigger and have a mount) or anything made for a serious purpose. It is probably a one-off turned out for fun, possibly by a youngster in a trade school machineshop. Note that there is no way to mount it, or even to attach it to a stock of any kind. Here is the picture: http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b.../cannon002.jpg Jim

July 17, 2007, 02:28 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,625	Agree. Friend of mine has one similar only better made with flanged muzzle and cascabel knob... but he could not figure out how to make the trunnions.

July 17, 2007, 03:04 PM	#4
megabyte Member Join Date: July 17, 2007 Posts: 20	Would it sit in a cradle? or could it be used as a portible weapon? Because like you I have noticed there is no metal holders which is common on cannons to be mounted to wooden holders.

July 18, 2007, 10:52 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	In the real world, the trunions (the round crosspieces that support the cannon on the carriage and allow it to be raised and lowered) were cast as part of the barrel. But that would be beyond my hypothetical high school student, so they were left off. Jim

July 19, 2007, 08:35 AM	#6
megabyte Member Join Date: July 17, 2007 Posts: 20	I have seen no trunions before in other cannons. This is why I think its a signal cannon as it doesnt matter about the elevation or aiming it. Could it be mounted into a wall as a shotgun. Someplace where elevation is not important. Like a murder hole in a wall or gate?

July 19, 2007, 10:07 AM	#7
Double J Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2007 Location: So. Illinois Posts: 547	That's an interesting piece. The pits around the touch hole would indicate use. Some of the early canon were lashed to a wooden cradle or stock. --The scratch toward the breech end, was this dug out of the ground? Pretty neat.

July 19, 2007, 11:38 AM	#8
The Tourist Junior member Join Date: June 20, 2005 Posts: 2,348	There used to be something called a 'punt gun.' It sat on a fixture on the prow of a boat and was used to kill ducks by the score to sell to restaurants. I have never actually seen this gun--only heard about it. Could this be it?

July 19, 2007, 11:47 AM	#10
The Tourist Junior member Join Date: June 20, 2005 Posts: 2,348	Scorch, I did find this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_gun

July 19, 2007, 12:34 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Punt guns? Murder holes? Signal guns? Wow! Maybe used by King Arthur to keep Mordred away from Guinivere? Anyone ever seen a punt gun? A signal gun? That is neither. Speculation knows no bounds, and stories can be made up from now until the devil buys ice skates, but I still can't see something like that having any serious purpose or any real value. If I am wrong, and it sells for a million bucks, great, but I wouldn't borrow against that million just yet. Jim

July 19, 2007, 12:38 PM	#12
The Tourist Junior member Join Date: June 20, 2005 Posts: 2,348	"Punt guns?...Speculation knows no bounds." Jim, there's an old expression, "When you hear hoof beats, think horses and not zebras." That means that the simplest explanation is probably the correct one. The reason I thought 'punt guns' is that they were probably made by the bushel basket full as a cheap way to hunt waterfowl. Further, a punt gun needed to be mounted, it was not a hand weapon (that I know of.) Besides, speculation in a forum is fun!

July 22, 2007, 09:46 AM	#14
megabyte Member Join Date: July 17, 2007 Posts: 20	Im not sure its a punt gun. This looks more like a large shotgun. Click on the link and go to the video on youtube. Wow what a great video of the punt gun shooting a whole wall of clay targets with one shot. My "object" is more cannon than rifle. Im not sure you could hunt with it as its very small and compact the aim would be more for repelling close targets with a scatter effect then a precise aimed shot for hunting fowl or other flying objects. I think its for controlling the crew or repelling boarders from enemy ships maybe to cover your enemy while trading or tied along side. What gets me is every type of cannon I have seen uses trunions to secure it to a wooden frame. This one must sit in some kind of cradle. I have never heard of a portible cannon hand held so I think it must sit in a cradle.

July 22, 2007, 04:28 PM	#17
megabyte Member Join Date: July 17, 2007 Posts: 20	How does it mount? It looks like its been under water for a couple hundred years to old to be a modern cannon. A childs toy at 10 lbs. Hmmm strong children using cannons to play pirate? Ok any one else want to make some humor. Seriously I have no clue and need help.

July 22, 2007, 04:49 PM	#18
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Megabyte, I don't know what to tell you, you have been given help and told what it was. This isn't some mystery one of a kind handgun. It's a 4th of July noisemaker. Good luck, Vaya con Dios.

July 22, 2007, 04:50 PM	#19
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,001	It probably is a toy cannon. I have a small collection of real, small cannon. Mini cannon were very common prior to WW2. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 23, 2007, 10:19 PM	#20
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	Well, my take on it is that it may have been a toy cannon of some sort. The dimentions are too small to have ever been a serious contender as a punt gun. The few examples of punt guns I have seen are large bores with barrels measuring in feet, noy inches. A dollar bill is approx 2 1/2" X 6" How long can the barrel on this be, 8 inches give or take. It sure wouldn't be very effective to drive off Pirates. It can be no better than any other smooth bore "pistol" of the past.

July 23, 2007, 10:41 PM	#21
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I didn't mention it because it isn't really relevant, but I have a small brass cannon around somewhere that a cousin made in high school shop as a copy of a ship's gun. It is only about 4 inches long, but it has a touchhole and he fired it tied to a bench. He never got around to the carriage, but it does have trunions. Jim

July 24, 2007, 10:46 AM	#23
megabyte Member Join Date: July 17, 2007 Posts: 20	Would a toy cannon have no trunions? Wouldnt it be easier and more recognizable to make it with trunions and mount it in a wooden cradle to give it the classic cannon look? While I agree its very small and wouldnt be used for serious combat ship to ship. But im not convinced it was used for childs play. Kids playing with fire and fuses (the fuse hole) how dangerous would that be. Lets just look down the barrel while firing it. Common that just doesnt make sense. I could see a july 4th fireworks cannon or morter but I have never seen one and Im still puzzled as to what this cannon sat in to make it usable. I have seen many cannons before mostly in Key West off ships that have been underwater for a long time and this cannon looks like its been underwater for a couple of centuries the pitting is way too deep for common corrosion. Even left outside in a yard it wouldnt look this pitted only salt water could do this while I could be wrong im basing it on what I have seen off real ships that have been underwater for a long time.

July 24, 2007, 02:06 PM	#24
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,001	The world was different back then. We didn't need the government to protect us from ourselves. Toy cannon were common, M-80s, Silver salutes, firecrackers measured in inches, shooting .22s in the back yard. We had tools witout safety guards! __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 24, 2007, 07:12 PM	#25
megabyte Member Join Date: July 17, 2007 Posts: 20	LOL I still do that today, M-80's or M-120's daisy chained is alot of fun. I still dont think children would play with a cannon. Just too dangerous.