Big Primer Dent... No BANG!

VanLogan · March 18, 2007, 06:46 PM

Hi Everyone,

I need some help with this one. I have had this happen in my first batch of 100 rounds that I reloaded. The primer gets Dented but it does not fire. This was happing 1 in 10 or so. The second time I try to drop the hammer the round fires. The previous 250 rounds of factory ammo fired just fine

Here are the specs...

40 S&W
W231 4.0 gr
180 Grain Rainier Copper Plated FP
CCI 500 small pistol Primers

Gun = HK USP full size that has fired over 3000 flawless times.

Amm I doing something wrong? Is there a more sensitive primer?

Thanks

Eric

**Unclenick** · March 18, 2007, 06:59 PM

CCI primers are notoriously tight in fit. That means it is easy to think you've seated them all the way when you have not. In this case the primer anvil is not seated against the bottom of the primer pocket, and when the firing pin hits the anvil absorbs the firing pin energy by nudging forward and decelerating it rather than offering a firm spot to squeeze the priming compound against. On the second hit, the anvil is now properly in place, so the priming compound gets properly crushed and ignites.

Prime your cases and line them up, mouth-down, on a flat surface and look across them at an angle with the light source behind them. Any high primers will stand out and you can correct them.

VanLogan · March 18, 2007, 07:02 PM

Thanks for the quick answer. I will check them and see if there are high primers. I think I need to put a little extra "umph" on the primer seating stroke.

Eric

Dogjaw · March 18, 2007, 08:36 PM

I agree to make sure the primers are seated. The primers are deformed when struck if not seated.

mrawesome22 · March 19, 2007, 12:53 AM

How old are they? Have they been sitting in a damp basement in an unsealed container? Maybe you got a bad lot? High seated? If you find they aren't high seated, go out and buy 100WinSP and see if they all go bang, then you'll know it's the primers. Does the dealer sell a lot of primers? Maybe they've been sitting on his shelf for years and years. Woops, I see they went off the second time. Probably high like said. I like CCI's because they are so tight in the pocket. It gives me much better feel.

benedict1 · March 19, 2007, 11:08 AM

I had the same problem with Win Large Pistol Primers and my Glock 21. They weren't seated deep enough. First strike, nothing. Second try, bang!

Just make sure the primers are seated all the way. Most books suggest that they should be .001-.002" below the base. I just set my Load Master priming depth a tad deeper than it was.

Interestingly, all our 1911 type guns fired the rounds with no problem. The firing pin strikes are much harder with 1911s, in general, or so I have been told. Out experience supports that.

Poodleshooter · March 19, 2007, 01:10 PM

Try reseating them and refiring. If that doesn't work,switch to Remington or Federal primers.
My Glock 30 used to choke regularly on Winchester LP primers,even though they were all seated below flush. Reseating with a newer primer tool didn't help. My 1911 fired the same ammo perfectly. Sometimes a certain combination of primer pocket,primer,seating tool/method just doesn't work well in a certain gun.

rwilson452 · March 19, 2007, 02:25 PM

Try this. BE SURE YOUR PISTOLS ARE UNLOADED AND MAGS ARE EMPTY

Cock your 1911. With the barrel pointed up place a #2 pencil down the bore eraser first. pull the trigger

Now do it with your Glock

Interestingly, all our 1911 type guns fired the rounds with no problem. The firing pin strikes are much harder with 1911s, in general, or so I have been told. Out experience supports that.

mrawesome22 · March 19, 2007, 03:09 PM

wilson, I tried that with my Sigma and the pencil jumped up about 1/2" i'd guess. How high will a 1911 push them? This was a full length #2 pencil.

rwilson452 · March 19, 2007, 05:27 PM

Launch would be a good word. Measure it in feet.

wilson, I tried that with my Sigma and the pencil jumped up about 1/2" i'd guess. How high will a 1911 push them? This was a full length #2 pencil.

Scorch · March 19, 2007, 05:33 PM

In the USMC, we used to do that trick with the 1911 standing 2 feet from a sheet of paper taped to the wall in marksmanship training to evaluate how good your trigger and sight control are. Yes, it will launch a pencil several feet, and very accurately

TEDDY · March 19, 2007, 07:46 PM

primers stay good for many yrs,I'm using 30 yr old primers.most of you are probable right about depth.I do not like CCi because of the size.but they are good primers.

Ammo Junky · March 19, 2007, 09:30 PM

Glock 21 and 20 ( my favorite ) are notorious for missfires with win primers. A switch to an wolf xp striker spring and or fed primers is the key. I prefer to go with the spring so the gun will not be so ammo picky.

March 18, 2007, 06:46 PM	#1
VanLogan Junior Member Join Date: March 7, 2007 Posts: 6	Big Primer Dent... No BANG! Hi Everyone, I need some help with this one. I have had this happen in my first batch of 100 rounds that I reloaded. The primer gets Dented but it does not fire. This was happing 1 in 10 or so. The second time I try to drop the hammer the round fires. The previous 250 rounds of factory ammo fired just fine Here are the specs... 40 S&W W231 4.0 gr 180 Grain Rainier Copper Plated FP CCI 500 small pistol Primers Gun = HK USP full size that has fired over 3000 flawless times. Amm I doing something wrong? Is there a more sensitive primer? Thanks Eric

March 19, 2007, 02:25 PM	#8
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	1911 primer strikes Try this. BE SURE YOUR PISTOLS ARE UNLOADED AND MAGS ARE EMPTY Cock your 1911. With the barrel pointed up place a #2 pencil down the bore eraser first. pull the trigger Now do it with your Glock Interestingly, all our 1911 type guns fired the rounds with no problem. The firing pin strikes are much harder with 1911s, in general, or so I have been told. Out experience supports that.

March 19, 2007, 05:33 PM	#11
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,249	In the USMC, we used to do that trick with the 1911 standing 2 feet from a sheet of paper taped to the wall in marksmanship training to evaluate how good your trigger and sight control are. Yes, it will launch a pencil several feet, and very accurately __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

March 19, 2007, 07:46 PM	#12
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	No Bang primers stay good for many yrs,I'm using 30 yr old primers.most of you are probable right about depth.I do not like CCi because of the size.but they are good primers.

March 18, 2007, 06:59 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,742	CCI primers are notoriously tight in fit. That means it is easy to think you've seated them all the way when you have not. In this case the primer anvil is not seated against the bottom of the primer pocket, and when the firing pin hits the anvil absorbs the firing pin energy by nudging forward and decelerating it rather than offering a firm spot to squeeze the priming compound against. On the second hit, the anvil is now properly in place, so the priming compound gets properly crushed and ignites. Prime your cases and line them up, mouth-down, on a flat surface and look across them at an angle with the light source behind them. Any high primers will stand out and you can correct them. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 18, 2007, 07:02 PM	#3
VanLogan Junior Member Join Date: March 7, 2007 Posts: 6	Thanks for the quick answer. I will check them and see if there are high primers. I think I need to put a little extra "umph" on the primer seating stroke. Eric

March 18, 2007, 08:36 PM	#4
Dogjaw Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2001 Location: S.W. Michigan Posts: 560	I agree to make sure the primers are seated. The primers are deformed when struck if not seated.

March 19, 2007, 12:53 AM	#5
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	How old are they? Have they been sitting in a damp basement in an unsealed container? Maybe you got a bad lot? High seated? If you find they aren't high seated, go out and buy 100WinSP and see if they all go bang, then you'll know it's the primers. Does the dealer sell a lot of primers? Maybe they've been sitting on his shelf for years and years. Woops, I see they went off the second time. Probably high like said. I like CCI's because they are so tight in the pocket. It gives me much better feel.

March 19, 2007, 11:08 AM	#6
benedict1 Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 245	I had the same problem with Win Large Pistol Primers and my Glock 21. They weren't seated deep enough. First strike, nothing. Second try, bang! Just make sure the primers are seated all the way. Most books suggest that they should be .001-.002" below the base. I just set my Load Master priming depth a tad deeper than it was. Interestingly, all our 1911 type guns fired the rounds with no problem. The firing pin strikes are much harder with 1911s, in general, or so I have been told. Out experience supports that.

March 19, 2007, 01:10 PM	#7
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	Try reseating them and refiring. If that doesn't work,switch to Remington or Federal primers. My Glock 30 used to choke regularly on Winchester LP primers,even though they were all seated below flush. Reseating with a newer primer tool didn't help. My 1911 fired the same ammo perfectly. Sometimes a certain combination of primer pocket,primer,seating tool/method just doesn't work well in a certain gun.

March 19, 2007, 03:09 PM	#9
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	wilson, I tried that with my Sigma and the pencil jumped up about 1/2" i'd guess. How high will a 1911 push them? This was a full length #2 pencil.

March 19, 2007, 05:27 PM	#10
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	Launch would be a good word. Measure it in feet. wilson, I tried that with my Sigma and the pencil jumped up about 1/2" i'd guess. How high will a 1911 push them? This was a full length #2 pencil.

March 19, 2007, 09:30 PM	#13
Ammo Junky Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: IL Posts: 537	Glock 21 and 20 ( my favorite ) are notorious for missfires with win primers. A switch to an wolf xp striker spring and or fed primers is the key. I prefer to go with the spring so the gun will not be so ammo picky.