URBAN COMBAT SHOTGUN......pro's & con's

threegun · December 8, 2006, 12:09 PM

There is a great debate on the combat shotguns long range abilities. I am convinced that while very effective at close range the shotgun is simply not the proper tool past 40 yards or so. My questions are..........What range do you consider the maximum effective range of buckshot? What range do you consider maximum effective for slugs. By effective I mean capable of eliminating a threat with 1 shot consistently.

Remember that living thinking targets are capable of employing tactics to reduce their silhouette.

For me the maximum range I consider buckshot to be effective is 40 yards (from my shotgun which has a 26" barrel). At this range I can be comfortable that most of the buckshot will hit a human in any position.

For me the maximum range I consider the slug to be capable of consistently hitting a human in any position is 60 yards.

The key words are consistent and effective. Hits can be made much further especially against larger targets.

TonyM1 · December 8, 2006, 12:49 PM

I think for the average person using one for home defense, 10 yards is likely to be more than enough. If talking about urban combat as in perhaps a Katrina situation, I still don't think you would need much range if you are on the defensive, in a situation like that I would have to believe that most bg's would be carrying handguns and probably a terrible shot to boot. I just don't think taking shots at someone 40 yards away is likely to be a defensive in fear for your life act. Based on this it also makes more sense to practice at the expected range of engagement, rather than the more unlikely long distance shots. JMO

shappy0869 · December 8, 2006, 12:55 PM

I recently shot some Remington Express 00 buck in a 50 foot indoor range. At the limit of the range, my 870 put 8 of 9 pellets on a 16" wide piece of paper. I would call that the range limit of my SG with that particular (cheap) ammo.

Though I am no expert, I believe that the SG is a mostly defensive urban combat weapon (aside from entry use, which no civilian would or should need). If you are going on the offensive, a rifle is the way to go.

threegun · December 8, 2006, 02:59 PM

I would definitely prefer it in an indoor defensive situation. Heck for that matter in an offensive close range exchange it would be my choice.

I guess the only con is its lack of range.

Mannlicher · December 8, 2006, 06:57 PM

if you have to worry about range, and modify your defensive plan to accomodate a weapon that may, or may NOT save your life, then just change your choice of weapons. I dumped the shotgun years ago, and depend on a Bushmaster now.

jhgreasemonkey · December 8, 2006, 08:39 PM

My HD shotgun can shoot slugs with reasonable accuracy to 100yds. Its much better at 50yds and this is with a 19" barrel. In answer to your slug question.

Nanuk · December 8, 2006, 08:41 PM

My semi auto shotgun is loaded with 7 rounds of Reduced Recoil 00 buck, It sits beside my bed. If that will not solve the problem I will get to a rifle. FWIW I always have a handgun close at hand.

threegun · December 9, 2006, 07:44 AM

Nanuk, At what range would you consider the shotgun as maxed out?

Diggers · December 10, 2006, 05:00 AM

Here guys. A real test of what buck shot does and different ranges.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot20.htm

Aim those shot.

DonR101395 · December 10, 2006, 05:09 AM

Threegun,
I was following the other thread and have to say I agree with you. With buckshot about 35-40 yards, with slugs 50-75 yards. Do I believe you can train yourself to hit beyond those distances, yep but why would you want to if you have a rifle available that will do anything a shotgun can do to a human at the same distances and further. I still keep a HD shotgun, but I don't have any fantasies of it being better than a rifle, it's just different and fills a niche.

threegun · December 10, 2006, 07:57 AM

DonR, Thanks. My shotgun is specialized for three gun matches. It has a 26inch barrel and with full choke it can hold some impressive groups with buckshot. Still the rifle would be my choice if only one could be used for all scenarios.

Maser · December 10, 2006, 09:22 AM

I have seen sabot slugs shot accuratly 200 yards from a rifled barrel. I think 40 yards would probly be the maximum effective distance for buckshot though. Also keep in mind that bbl length has nothing to do with spread. It's all the chokes work. Sure it may have a tiny effect, but not significant especially at extended ranges.

'75Scout · December 10, 2006, 11:11 PM

I could shoot slugs to COM at 75 yards out of the 24" barrel 870 I used to own. I currently have an 18.5" barrel with rifle sights and a Knoxx Comp-Stock that I can shoot quite accurately out to 100 yards. Would I rather have a rifle at those ranges, sure. But I'm a married college student and I can't afford the Arsenal AK or the M1a that I want. So the 870 will have to do for now.

December 8, 2006, 12:09 PM	#1
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	URBAN COMBAT SHOTGUN......pro's & con's There is a great debate on the combat shotguns long range abilities. I am convinced that while very effective at close range the shotgun is simply not the proper tool past 40 yards or so. My questions are..........What range do you consider the maximum effective range of buckshot? What range do you consider maximum effective for slugs. By effective I mean capable of eliminating a threat with 1 shot consistently. Remember that living thinking targets are capable of employing tactics to reduce their silhouette. For me the maximum range I consider buckshot to be effective is 40 yards (from my shotgun which has a 26" barrel). At this range I can be comfortable that most of the buckshot will hit a human in any position. For me the maximum range I consider the slug to be capable of consistently hitting a human in any position is 60 yards. The key words are consistent and effective. Hits can be made much further especially against larger targets.

December 8, 2006, 06:57 PM	#5
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,060	if you have to worry about range, and modify your defensive plan to accomodate a weapon that may, or may NOT save your life, then just change your choice of weapons. I dumped the shotgun years ago, and depend on a Bushmaster now. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

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December 8, 2006, 12:49 PM	#2
TonyM1 Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: FL Posts: 115	I think for the average person using one for home defense, 10 yards is likely to be more than enough. If talking about urban combat as in perhaps a Katrina situation, I still don't think you would need much range if you are on the defensive, in a situation like that I would have to believe that most bg's would be carrying handguns and probably a terrible shot to boot. I just don't think taking shots at someone 40 yards away is likely to be a defensive in fear for your life act. Based on this it also makes more sense to practice at the expected range of engagement, rather than the more unlikely long distance shots. JMO

December 8, 2006, 12:55 PM	#3
shappy0869 Member Join Date: September 19, 2006 Location: Deerfield Beach, FL Posts: 58	I recently shot some Remington Express 00 buck in a 50 foot indoor range. At the limit of the range, my 870 put 8 of 9 pellets on a 16" wide piece of paper. I would call that the range limit of my SG with that particular (cheap) ammo. Though I am no expert, I believe that the SG is a mostly defensive urban combat weapon (aside from entry use, which no civilian would or should need). If you are going on the offensive, a rifle is the way to go.

December 8, 2006, 02:59 PM	#4
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	I would definitely prefer it in an indoor defensive situation. Heck for that matter in an offensive close range exchange it would be my choice. I guess the only con is its lack of range.

December 8, 2006, 08:39 PM	#6
jhgreasemonkey Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 2,238	My HD shotgun can shoot slugs with reasonable accuracy to 100yds. Its much better at 50yds and this is with a 19" barrel. In answer to your slug question.

December 8, 2006, 08:41 PM	#7
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 2,046	My semi auto shotgun is loaded with 7 rounds of Reduced Recoil 00 buck, It sits beside my bed. If that will not solve the problem I will get to a rifle. FWIW I always have a handgun close at hand.

December 9, 2006, 07:44 AM	#8
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	Nanuk, At what range would you consider the shotgun as maxed out?

December 10, 2006, 05:00 AM	#9
Diggers Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2005 Posts: 366	Here guys. A real test of what buck shot does and different ranges. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot20.htm Aim those shot.

December 10, 2006, 05:09 AM	#10
DonR101395 Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2005 Location: NWFL Posts: 3,029	Threegun, I was following the other thread and have to say I agree with you. With buckshot about 35-40 yards, with slugs 50-75 yards. Do I believe you can train yourself to hit beyond those distances, yep but why would you want to if you have a rifle available that will do anything a shotgun can do to a human at the same distances and further. I still keep a HD shotgun, but I don't have any fantasies of it being better than a rifle, it's just different and fills a niche.

December 10, 2006, 07:57 AM	#11
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	DonR, Thanks. My shotgun is specialized for three gun matches. It has a 26inch barrel and with full choke it can hold some impressive groups with buckshot. Still the rifle would be my choice if only one could be used for all scenarios.

December 10, 2006, 09:22 AM	#12
Maser Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2006 Location: Mysterious Cities of Gold Posts: 920	I have seen sabot slugs shot accuratly 200 yards from a rifled barrel. I think 40 yards would probly be the maximum effective distance for buckshot though. Also keep in mind that bbl length has nothing to do with spread. It's all the chokes work. Sure it may have a tiny effect, but not significant especially at extended ranges.

December 10, 2006, 11:11 PM	#13
'75Scout Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2005 Location: Central Texas Posts: 815	I could shoot slugs to COM at 75 yards out of the 24" barrel 870 I used to own. I currently have an 18.5" barrel with rifle sights and a Knoxx Comp-Stock that I can shoot quite accurately out to 100 yards. Would I rather have a rifle at those ranges, sure. But I'm a married college student and I can't afford the Arsenal AK or the M1a that I want. So the 870 will have to do for now.