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Old May 10, 2006, 01:16 PM   #1
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9mm vs. Rottweiler

I live on Long Island, NY and last week on the news they reported an incident
involving shooting a rottweiler. It seems this dog had been terrorizing the neighborhood several times in the past. The police received a report of a dog gone wild. They responded and found the rottweiler chased a woman into her
home and cornered her. After trying to get a loop around the dog's head from a pole, the dog turned on the cops and started to charge them. One shot got him in the chest and three others hit him but it was not reported where. Any way, he took 4 shoots and it is expected that he will survive. The cops were shooting 9mm. hollow points from their glocks. Scarry! Makes you think about using 9 mm. ammo.

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Old May 10, 2006, 05:04 PM   #2
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Man or beast---caliber does not matter--you must hit where the man or beast lives , otherwise--he will live, and may be in condition to harm you
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Old June 18, 2006, 10:02 PM   #3
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Dogs are notoriously hard to kill. Head shots are most often inaffective due to the slope of the canine skull which causes deflections. As your story illustrates, chest/vital shots on a moving aggressive dog are extremely difficult.
As a paramedic in a high volume urban 911 service I can tell you that the vast majority of fatal GSW's we see are 9mm or smaller in caliber. .22, .25, .32's do a massive amout of killing in this country.
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Old June 19, 2006, 08:43 AM   #4
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I know, firsthand of two dog shootings by cops:

In one case, the RCMPs entered the wrong house on a raid in the Toronto area, and were met by the resident (protection trained) Rottweiler...They hit him 5 times with 9mm, at point blank range, before he went down. And he did SERIOUS damage to 4 of the cops before he expired.

Another was a drug raid in Cook County Illinois (Chicago area, though I don't recall exacly where). Cops were serving a no-knock drug warrant. They entered an apartment, only to be confronted by 2 Pit Bulls. Dogs went for the cops, and the female was hit 4 times by 9mm, was finally dispatched by a load of 00 buck, literally at the end of the shotgun barrel.

Yeah, dogs are TOUGH to kill (and move REALLY fast), which is why I chuckle at all the people on the boards that wanna shoot "aggressive dogs". There's a good chance you'll just make 'em pi$$ed-off, and them you've got a REAL fight on your hands.
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Old June 22, 2006, 01:29 PM   #5
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While in Iraq we had several dogs on our OP and our 1sgt got word that we had to get rid of them due to the dogs carry sand flies. Well after dropping them off at the nearest valley the dogs made it back. The 1sgt and his gunner decided to take them out. First dog up was Smiley who looked like a shepard and wolf mix. Long story short 4 shots of 9mm to the top and back of the head and 2 5.56 through the side. After the first headshot, the dog just looked back like "What the hell are you doing?" After being shot he just walked over to the other side of the barbed wire and pasted away.
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Old June 22, 2006, 02:16 PM   #6
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Had to shoot feral dogs once. Varmint rounds (22-250, 220 Swift, 223, etc) can really air them out, but you have to see a 100+ lbs dog take a 308 hit and try to find who shot him to appreciate what a dog can absorb. Sure, they will eventually fall over and die, but you don't want to be too close unless you can shoot real accurately.
On the other hand, people who shoot dogs that are charging them almost always shoot too low and miss the vitals. I shot a Dobie that thought I should be on the other side of the fence. 45 ACP at 20, 10 and 5 yds. Last shot was a direct spinal column hit, more by accident than intent (open mouth).
There is a reason we try to shoot animals broadside. The target for a charging animal (dog, bear, lion, buffalo, weasel, whatever) is very small and we are usually more concerned with putting out a lot of fire volume rather than aim and fire at a specific target. Too much Hollywood, I suspect.
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Old June 25, 2006, 11:51 AM   #7
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I have twice shot charging Rots, once with .357 SD loads and once with 9mm SD loads. Both dropped in full charge, one about 10 feet away and the other at my (rapidly moving) feet. Both were hit below the chin first and then in the mouth.

I took a Rot and a Shepard off of a downed lamb with a 16GA sXs and 0000buck. one round each, head (ear) shots from about 15 feet through a screen door. I was really glad that the loads did the job, as I was stark naked at the time and didn't have any backup, weapon or human. (Yes, that was dumb.)

I shot a Siberian Husky in the back of the head and he turned around and asked me just what the h377 I was doing. That still saddens me.

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Old June 25, 2006, 04:46 PM   #8
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I saw a chowmix that was shot point blank in the face/head by its 'owner'. (he claimed it was an accident...yeah pull the other one, it plays Jingle Bells!)
The dog was making a full recovery at my vet's office, despite the .45acp ball round that went rattling around its head, eventually exiting the upper jaw. Despite the pain & fear that dog must have been experiencing, it still wagged its tail at me, a total stranger, when I approached and spoke gently to her.
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Old June 25, 2006, 06:17 PM   #9
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I like my Dobes...and in regard to all dogs...I'd say that 999 OUT OF 1000X'S
I'm able to handle a bad situation with a dog...without having to resort to violence...and IN THE RARE 1 out of a 1000 encounters...I am able to avoid actually using violence. However, there are always those rare exceptional situations. Probably law enforcement is of course more commonly exposed to those rare situations - and it usually involves a human's bad/neglectful behavor causing a dog to be 'bad'. I'd advise anyone to get to know dogs ie. get really involved in the training process; it might do more for your protection than a firearm... With that being said...I like my Ruger RH 454/45. I had a few years back a spooky encounter with a pack of ferral dogs, and it was scary to be in the foggy woods surrounded suddenly by a pack of snarls... At short range in the woods...the 454 will put'em down.(if it gets to that point) In the event you have to climb a tree, well the little RH is easy to carry. On a long overnight stay in the's a little reassuring to have 'something' for protection. The little RH is one of the best pistols made in many many years. With dogs(when possibleand with humans too!)it is always better to get a dog to change its behavior via honest persistant and consistant communication rather than through dishonest, persistant and inconsistant manipulation.
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Old July 4, 2006, 12:15 PM   #10
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I have shot more wild dogs than I can keep count of.
All of them I have shot between the eye's or in the temple and they have alway's gone down with one shot.
Aim between the eye's or at the temple and they will alway's go down.
Most of the time I have used my 22 LR.
If you don't think you can hit between the eye's or the temple then I strongly suggest you practice.
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Old July 4, 2006, 12:42 PM   #11
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I didn't do it... Wasn't there... NOPE...WASN'T ME..
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Old July 4, 2006, 11:58 PM   #12
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My brother in law had to shoot the neighbour's rottweiler when it jumped the fence and was about to lunge at his wife. A .22 pistol managed to put it down. Shot placement means alot. I don't blame the dog of course. The neighbour at the time did everything to make it mean including feeding it gunpowder. Luckly he died and we we're able to get the dogs away to a safe location. Another feral dog on the land that was trying to attack our dogs was put down by an Arisaka though I wasn't around, the exit wound took out the back end of the animal.
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Old July 5, 2006, 12:35 AM   #13
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I have had a Doberman shot by a .357 magnum. Survived with treatment of an antibiotic injection. A police officer shot one of my Rottweilers with a .357 magnum dead in the chest between the front legs. Survived with no penetration of the thoracic cavity.

I can take you to Sardis, Georgia and introduce you to a man who was shot in the face from a range of two feet with a .357 magnum by a police officer. The bullet entered his face just to the left of his nose and stopped just by the carotid.

I'm a RN in an emergency department. I've got more. In fact, out of survivors, the gunshot wound I've personally seen that caused the most permanent deficits was vascular damage to a man's leg caused by a .25ACP. The young man almost lost that leg and will never regain full use of it.

It ain't 9MM. It's handgun calibers in general. They will all fail at times even with proper placement in the central nervous system. I've seen a man who shot himself in the brain by placing the .38 Special in his mouth three days before. The CT of his brain showed bullet fragments from the roof of his mouth to the back of his skull. He had a slight limp. I've had worse limps from twisting my ankle in the parking lot. There are reasons that repeating handguns were developed. One reason is the need to shoot again due to disappointing results with the first shot even with proper placement.

Look at the percentage of people who survive being shot with a handgun and then compare that percentage with the percentage of people who survive being shot with a rifle. There is a reason for that disparity. The reason is the much lower capabilities of handgun calibers. All of them.
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Old July 11, 2006, 08:21 AM   #14
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Last year while hunting on my aunts property, I was just getting ready to take a shot at a nice whitetail, when all of a sudden came behind me the barking of dogs. The first one a Pit mixed with lab did the first agression and then turned and ran, but the second one a much larger 90 or so pounds shepard stood its ground with ears back and showing off those pearly whites.

When I had spun around I was already level with my .35 Remington using 200-gr Core-Locks. The dog was at a mere distance of 15 feet and was taking a posture to continue towards me even more agressively... can you taste fear, I did.

I dropped the hammer and the dog dropped right there on the spot. The 200-gr bullet entered just below the eye and exited back towards the hinge of the jawels. There were more exit wounds behind the ear, back of head etc which I believe were caused by bone fragments or possible bullet fragments from hitting bone.

The people who owned this dog, had been told many times to chain it up. Neighbors had encountered this dog attacking their pets and ranch animals. The dog had even taken to deer... a taboo here in Montana.

At the time I was still in law enforcement and called the county sheriff's office up were I was at. The dog was not registered in the county, or even tagged or vacinated for rabbies.

The sad part of this, is that all of this could have been prevented and a families heart not broken. I know I would rather have not shot the dog, but survival is a much better option than the worst case situation... I'm not a chew bone for anyone's dog.
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Old July 12, 2006, 09:24 PM   #15
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Dogs & Guns...

A person ought to think before they buy a dog & think before they buy a gun and consider them both to be major responsibilities. One doesn't keep a loaded firearm(or any firearm)laying out where anyone can pick it up...but some folks don't seem to understand that it's also not cool to leave an untrained wild dog laying about where anyone or anything can come by and likewise get into serious trouble. With my dobes they learn to see me as the pack leader, not to take food from strangers, not to chase people or bycycles and to 'stay', and to be friendly unless told to be aggressive... A trained dog is not a robot, but a calmer healthier dog - just as a 'nice child' is a happier and more free and relaxed individual too. I've seen too many stupid things done by people with dogs ie. folks who deliberatly try to buy or raise a 'mean' dog and then let it run wild. Out in the woods I like my little 454/45 because I can tuck it away and not let it get in the way of my fishing, birdwatching, rock climbing, prospecting...and all sort of things that might be cumbersome with a long gun...but it packs a deadly punch!
I'd say a .22 is better than nothing...but if I have to use something on snarling megafauna - I definitly want to kill it - not wound it.
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Old July 20, 2006, 04:50 PM   #16
Anthony Terry
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ive had to shoot a few here on the farm for cattle killing. they step on my land they better do it when im not around.. but for an funny story:
when i was young, about 12, my aunt had a chow dog that was mean as heck. the gate to the barnyard borders the fence around her house, with the latch being thru her fence. my dad opening the gate and the chow bit him, tearing his hand open. lets just say he was to drunk to feel it till the next day. but he grabs and manhaqndles the dog, hanging it over her fence by its leach and beating the crap out of it, then throws it back over and it ran! he whipped that ole chow, and it never came near us any more when we were going into the barnyard!!
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Old July 22, 2006, 07:04 PM   #17
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Wasnt this pages long, or was this another dog shot with 9mm survives "unscathed"
there was one with ballistic links and photo's
Ahh, a good old bolt action,a bolt is a remedy for time, afternoons with our fathers and their fathers, for the mighty olympic shooters, for the wanna be's,for the time of youth in the woods, for the young.......the old, it is timeless, classic, sleek-a piece of art forever to remain in our memories, our hearts, our future.
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Old July 24, 2006, 04:19 PM   #18
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Around here a pittbull got loose and was attacking people not to long ago. It took one 12ga from a police officer and expired.
Constitution of Virginia

Section 13. That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed...
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