The Colt .45 never won the west!!

[Remington kid]

Why is it so many people believe that the Colt 45 won the west??? By the time the 45 came alone the west was already won by REAL men with REAL revolvers like the Remington .44, Colt 51 and 61 and the old army.
The only guy's who carried the Colt 45 were wimps and REAL cowboy want- a- be's, HA!!!

[Hafoc]

Because John Wayne carried a Peacemaker (although his was a .38-40, iirc). And you know full well that one of The Rules is that The Duke can Do No Wrong.



'course by coincidence I was thinking about this yesterday. If you take the period of The West to be California Gold Rush to 1901 (Butch and Sundance's last train robbery), the Peacemaker was only around for about half of it.

Still a lovely gun, though. It's just pretty. We ought to give it a few points for that.

[mec]

"Because John Wayne carried a Peacemaker (although his was a .38-40, iirc). And you know full well that one of The Rules is that The Duke can Do No Wrong"

That's the truth. Occasionally, he even carried one years before they were invented.

[ribbonstone]

You mean the movies lied? Didn't the Duke get a special pre-production run (and a time machine) and film those movies as documentaries?


Guess it's all in the viewpoint...I figure the west was "won" by piles of dead buffalo, small pox infected blankets, and an unstoppable flow of settlers with rattle trap shotguns.

[Remington kid]

Ain't that the truth! old John could do no wrong and that colt of his had a never ending supply of bullets.
In all the Westerns I have watched with John I never did see him carry a cap and ball but he did carry an old Bess flintlock at the Alamo .

[4V50 Gary]

Hey, take it back. I saw all those Spaghetti Westerns and if Sergio Leone says its so, it's so. So there!

[Easy E]

You just HAD to go and drop Sergio's name.
Now I've got to go watch "Once upon a time in the west".

Sadly, Ribbonstone has it right.

[Old Dragoon]

Sergio didn't get it right in "the Good, The Bad, And The Ugly they were shooting C&B revolvers without caps and buying cartridges for them All three Big's" 2 had colts, and One had a '58 Remm...Who had the Remington???
Lee Van Cleef That's who.
I am watching a documenterary on Western Movies and they stated that the old west was from 1850 to 1900(we'll allow Butch and Sundances last foray though)
"....Use enough dynamite Kid?" ).

[Remington kid]

OD, LOL. I don't remember when they were chasing Poncho Via (Spelling) all over the states but I guess you could say he was one of the last cowboy's fighting to keep the old day alive ....even if he did make his run in a car

PS Love Willie Nelsons song about old Poncho .

[TexasSIGMan]

Sergio didn't get it right in "the Good, The Bad, And The Ugly they were shooting C&B revolvers without caps and buying cartridges for them All three Big's" 2 had colts, and One had a '58 Remm...Who had the Remington???
Lee Van Cleef That's who.

I just always tell myself they have conversion cylinders. I couldn't bear to think those movies were anything less than perfect

[4V50 Gary]

Shhh! Old Dragoon. Better wear dark glasses so you can't see so well next time you watch, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

[Remington kid]

That's one of the reasons I like Quigley down under so well. Nothing but cap and ball and a 51 colt takes out the bad guy in the end. Quigley had his cartidge rifle that I would like to have for groundhogs If i could afford one!

[Old Dragoon]

That's what I like about Tom Selleck's Cowboy Movies, he uses period correct firearms. Yeah I watch too close and count the shots. How Doc holiday fired the "Street Howitzer" so many times at the OK Corral in Tombstone and all the other shots they all took befuddled me...No one reloaded anything. But I like the movie so much I watch it once a month, and lonesome Dove too. I love the Encore Western Channel, have it on most of my TV time.

[gmatov]

RK,

800 yard target he sent to get the job, and you want one for 50 yard 'hogs.

I can see 'em at 50 yards, but can't see the sights to line up on 'em.

Mebbe I better get new glasses.

Can you imagine how Quigley was fuming, there at the end, when Marsten had his men tossing his rifle all over the corral like a chunk of firewood? That, alone, would make me want to kill him and them. Think I gotta watch it again now.

Man, I loved his parting line..Said I never had no use for one.....

Cheers,

George

BTW, have you ever seen a bad Tom Selleck movie?

[Old Dragoon]

Personal anectdote. I had the good fourtune to meet and shake Tom Sellecks hand at a gun show in las Vegas the very day that Crossfire Trail was to be shown the first time. he was there looking for high dollar Winchesters. I didn't have any that high dollar to interest him, but as he came by my table, there i am in my 1870's period Cowboy Attire. and I asked to shake his hand and he obliged. This was just after he had walked off The Rosie O'Donald Talk show Set when she tried to berate him for being pro gun. I thanked him for being a gentleman in the face of adversity. I didn't get home in time to see the movie that night but I saw it a night or two later. Been looking for an Evans and a Remington-Keene in my price range ever since. He had gently declined a lady earlier that asked for his autograph, said he wasn't there to do that, but to buy a couple rifles, but he'd accomodate her when he was signing autographs at another time. I thought that was pretty cool that he didn't just blow her off. All the vendors kind of passed that word around and protected him from that sort of thing the rest of the day. Pretty cool on all our parts.

[gmatov]

OD,

Would you say kinda our kinda people, he is?

I like your story.

Damn sure would like to meet the man. Never will, but his is about the best movies there is, and I have all his westerns, Sackett ones, and the one with , who, Fred Astaire and Shelly Winters, where the old people are trying to die to leave him their insurance, "McConnels", "yeah, pop, I'll take you to get a hamburger", to "Mr. Baseball".

Last Stand at Blank River is another, saw it several times, want to buy it.

The Duke?

He couldn't hold a candle to Selleck!!!

Cheers,

George

[Remington kid]

Yep, I agree, Tom is one of the good old boy's and a real gentleman from what I have heard.

[Old Dragoon]

I would say from my brief encounter, that the man shoots straight and he'd be one to ride the river with.
I think I have a video of Last stand at Saber River, and a couple others, also got a lot of Sam Elliot's Cowboy movies as well. He used to live in my area, but I never got to meet him, he's on the short list along with Kostner and Duvall.

[mec]

The screen writers for those Selleck/Elliot/Lamour are really trying to get the guns and equipment right or at least feasible for the period. In Mitchner's TEXAS, they even equipped Rick Schroder with Paterson revolvers. Of course Sam Elliot had one too when he was dashing across the Natchez trace toward the Alamo. Strained feasibility there. They didn't come out until a few months after the Alamo but Colt had been developing them throughout the 1830s and we can pretend that Elliot had a prototype.

[Gary Conner]

Bacause the Walker Colt was built previous to the Remington, and was the first revolving pistol to allow more than one shot while conducting mounted chases against Comanche Indians.

Although Captain Sam Walker was killed in Mexico City in the Mexican War, Texas Ranger Captain John C. Hays' company was the first company able to use the Walker (re-designed) Colt successfully to pursue the Comanches since they now did not have to dismount to do battle from the ground, and reload, etc.

It gave the first edge that Rangers had against Comanches at the time, who previously could loose more projectiles (arrows) while fighting horseback, than the Rangers could shoot (bullets) before the Walker Colt came out, and it was the first revolving pistol a person could carry extra loaded cylinders for while horse back that was sturdy enough to stand the treatment.

So while Remington and Smith and Wesson No. 3 models were used a lot in the ensuing years by Cowboys and gunfighters, etc., in order for the Central, West, and Northern portions of Texas to be inhabited, the Comanches first had to be dealt with and since they (naturally) did not appreciate getting pushed out of Texas into Mexico. (and later the reservations in Oklahoma and Florida) The Comanches could for the first time, were pursued all the way into the Northern portions of the Staked Plains, allowing for Westward settlement, such as ranches, towns, etc.

At least that is what I have gathered from reading various books about it over the years.

[gmatov]

I have read that Selleck is the authority for the period correctness of guns in his movies, at least since he became a big box office draw, ie, had a say.

Sam Elliot, I don't know, I like most everything he has been in, but don't know if he is gun savvy.

I believe I have read all, and still own nearly all, Louis L'Amour books. I don't know of an author who knew, or depicted, so many guns of the old west as accurately as he did.

Quite possible he boned up for each introduction of a new gun.

Something else I should sell all of before I die, or become incapacitated, else the kids will do as they did when they moved in for a while, hired a dumpster and pitched it full. Dunno, don't seem to have anymore free space here after than I did before. Musta been stacked neater and tighter.

Sergio Leone's movies, the "Spaghetti Westerns", Eastwood stuff, hell, they were being made in Italy, they were cheap, and they were mostly period.

No Glisenti's were shown. I liked them. Much more than Eastwood as Rowdy Yates. WITH a Colt 73, I think.

Cheers,

George

[johnrtse]

I have read that most, if not all, of the guns that Tom Selleck uses in his western films are either made or restored by Ken Howell of R&D.

I have an R&D conversion cylinder for a Remington 1858 and it is a fine instrument.

[Ozzieman]

I know for sure that “THE DUKE” could do no wrong. These questions about their never reloading, that’s just silly, the average “piece maker” holds a minimum of 52 rounds, I counted them in one of the “Duke’s” movies. I don’t know which one but I counted them.
It was just like later on when he won WW2, fighting the Jap’s his M1 GRAND. One of his held 37 rounds.
I still ant figured how to get that many rounds in mine but as soon as I find that big of a clip I will let you all know.
One question,,,, About Quigley down under?????
Just how long was that shot????
The guy on the horse with the bucket ran for, what 30, 60, more seconds.
Just how long of a “snap” shot did Quigley take,,,, after having not shot the gun after a “cross the world cruse” that back then took months. Then rode a wagon for how many days,,,,, then within several minutes after climbing off the wagon,,,, fixing the sights,,,, Dropping a little dirt to gage the wind,,,, made a shot that I don’t think I could to with my bench rest gun on sand bags, and here he does it 4 or 5 times off hand.
I know I’m complaining, but I still liked the movie…

[gmatov]

Oz,

I don't know how far it was, but I'd bet I couldn't even SEE it with the 24X on your benchrest gun.

Next time you watch it, count the seconds from the boom till the bucket jumps. Something like 1100 feet per second for sound to travel.

Remember later when the stooge says it was 3-4 seconds after the guy falls that he hears the BOOM and the boss says "over half a mile".

Gotta watch it again to see if Selleck was realistic in the timing, too, as in everything else I can remember.

Heck, gotta watch it agauin just to watch it, not a damned thing on TV that is fit to watch.
Cheers,

George

[Remington kid]

George, My wife bought me the DVD for Christmas and I just watched it again the other day and I don't remember how far the shot was. It was a "fer" piece for sure