What do you YELL!

[Duxman]

I have been thinking about this situation ever since reading the various articles of folks being attacked at the mall etc.

Background: You are not a retired LEO, FBI agent or connected to any other paramilitary unit. But you are NRA, USPSA and an avid civilian shooter with a CC permit.

IF you were in a situation where you had to draw your weapon and point at a BG (Because said BG was about to assualt, rob, rape etc. your wife, SO, friend etc.) AND you felt compelled to warn before you fire (perhaps because the mall is full of folks milling about or some other reason)

What do you YELL?

NRA civilian with CC permit? Freeze!

USPSA expert shooter! Drop your weapon!

Any suggestions?

[racinstylez]

well if the BG didnt have a firearm, then why pull yours out? Fists are weapons too. Pluss if you are in a mall and there is a lot of innocent people around you wouldnt want to hurt any of them.

[20cows]

Ask in a firm tone (if you have time):

Is it gonna be worth it?

[sixguns]

Go ahead make my day!

[dasmi]

well if the BG didnt have a firearm, then why pull yours out?

Ya, I guess if he has a knife, I'd better just pull my knife. You know, be a man, make it fair.

I think I might yell "Stop or I'll kill you!"

[coolridelude]

in tejas its ALTO!(stop)

[PythonGuy]

Sounds like another wannabe cop post, a guy with a CC looking for a reason to be Dirty Harry. Go ahead, shoot the BG and then spend the next few years defending yourself or in jail, its your life.......

[swjr72]

Don't make me shoot you

[USP45usp]

Sounds like another wannabe cop post, a guy with a CC looking for a reason to be Dirty Harry.

Yeah .

If you have to pull your weapon, why waste your words? If you have to pull, then it's gone beyond the need for words.

As for the quote above, I guess wanting to protect yourself, your family, and innocent third parties is "Looking for a reason to be Dirty Harry". Again .

Wayne

[RWK]

NOTHING. A warning is not required, IF the situation is sufficiently dire to mandate the use of lethal force.

[RsqVet]

Is this serious? LE has a legal obligation to identify. CCW holders do not, at liest not to the BG, though I'd be ready to make my identity obvious to the PD when they get there. The only thing I would worry about saying to the bad guy is what ever you want him to do ---- stop, don't come closer, drop the wepon, lay on the ground and don't move whatever... adding that if they come closer or don't comply you will defend yourself or shoot is probibly a good idea as well, adding any political, movie or otherwise unneeded statement is probibly a rally bad idea esp. if you are in a crowded public place. Frankly the BG is unlikely to realize you are not the PD if you are in public, pointing a pistol and shouting at them, and if things have gotten to this point it's not something that is all bad or to your disadvantage.

[chris in va]

I think the question is perfectly legitimate. Some maniac has already stabbed a person and walking around with it, I seriously doubt it's in your best interest to shoot. A verbal warning to drop it would seem the best action.

Which begs the question. If said person is in fact walking around with the knife after stabbing someone but isn't coming after you or anyone else...then what?

[spacemanspiff]

Get Some!!!

[Garand Illusion]

In general, I think most of the above posts are right. By the time you draw your weapon the situation is generally out of control and the BG is less than 10 feet away -- and with a BG less than 10 feet away you DON'T want to negotiate; you just want to eliminate the threat.

If it's in your house, or the rare situation where you do feel comfortable trying commands first, there's no need to identify yourself. Just yell out commands, and if the BG doesn't follow them immediately OR flee out the door (even if he heads toward the door if he has a gun of his own) use your firearm to eliminate the threat. Some good ones:

ON THE GROUND, NOW!

FACE DOWN, ARMS OUT, PALMS FACING UP!

SHUT UP! YOU CAN TALK TO THE POLICE WHEN THEY COME!

Whatever you do, don't let a BG held at gunpoint draw you into a conversation. If he's trying to charm you or negotiate and/or seems to be inching forward, you've GOT to eliminate the threat before he makes a move and takes the gun away. It's AMAZINGLY easy to get a gun away from someone you're within 10 feet of. If he moves, at best you'll get off one shot, and it could miss or not stop him. Then you're in a world of hurt and he MAY end up with your gun.

I think the bottom line is very simple:

1. Don't draw your weapon unless you have reason to fire.
2. Don't hesitate to fire if the threat doesn't immediately and fully subside.

[wayneinFL]

Sounds like another wannabe cop post, a guy with a CC looking for a reason to be Dirty Harry. Go ahead, shoot the BG and then spend the next few years defending yourself or in jail, its your life.......

I know the original post sounds like that, Python Guy, and the hair on the back of my neck kind of stands up when I hear things like this. Sometimes I, myself, wonder if people spend too much time thinking about things like this. On the other hand, I'm glad people bring things like this up on an anonymous internet forum before they do something to embarrass or incarcerate themselves. We're all here to help each other.

My $.02 worth:

First off, don't say anything to make yourself sound like a wannabe cop.

I seriously heard a CCW instructor say you could yell "STOP!... Police!" As though you were yelling for someone to call the police while telling your attacker to stop. Yeah, that's a good idea. Bad guy gets hauled away with me right next to him for impersonating a police officer. I know it sounds cool running around yelling "stop! police!" like you're in a 70's cop show, but....

(I'm picturing myself with long sideburns running around like Starsky and Hutch. Putting the little light on the car and chasing bad guys in a red Torino. Yep. Cool. )

I had an instructor at one of the better known schools I attended give the advice to simply tell a potential mugger "Back off!". Sounds a lot less rehearsed and phony to me. I like that fine.

If you tell the guy to do whatever or else you're going to shoot, I've heard that could be used against you in court to prove malice or premeditation. Maybe one of the lawyers who goes through these forums could chime in and support or refute this.

What would I do? I would avoid saying much of anything myself, besides to calm the guy down and stop the situation in a non-violent manner. And be prepared to shoot like "dirty harry" if needed. You're not a vigilante just because you want to stop an attacker from hurting you, a family member or an innocent bystander.

[yorec]

While it it very true that a warning may not be required if things have gotten bad enough that it's time to draw and fire - remember there are other people in the mall. They are witnesses who are going to testify to what they saw and heard. I want them to say that they heard me tell the BG to leave me alone and that I warned him I would not be his victime...

"Don't make me shoot you - stay back!" Is the one I like to think they'd hear coming from me... But it could also possibly be: "Squeak."

(Followed by: Boom! Boom! )

[Edison Carter]

Then what?! Chris, have you ever done the Tueller drill?
Want to try it at 5 yeards? Want to try it at 3 yards?
You want to go up close and "discuss" why she is stabbing people?

Either shoot her or run for your life!

If anybody confronts this particular situation and you are not sure
how you stand, legally, doing a Mozamique tap, I suggest you quit
carrying a gun.

If you live in a state or city where they would prosecute you for shooting
a knife wielding maniac who had just stabbed two women, you need to
LEAVE!

EC

[Daniel964]

I'm starting to look forward to Pythonguys posts. The only thing I can come up with is they are an anti troll or just and everyday person that has no self confidence.

[BatmanX]

I am under the impression (maybe incorrectly) that most people who CCW also carry OC spray.

This would be a fine example of when spray would be a good idea to use.

[Garand Illusion]

I've been reading this site for some time, and reading the newspaper about court cases for longer, and I think the "but the DA will say ..." arguments are not really worth a lot of time.

i.e. ...

If you warn a bad guy and then shoot, it could be considered pre-meditation.
If you don't warn a BG and open fire, witnesses will say you just pulled and opened up.

If you take advanced firearms training, the the DA will say you were clearly training yourself to be a killer.
If you take no firearms training, the DA will say you were a danger to everyone with the firearm and certainly used it improperly.

Ad infinitum ... I know from reading real court cases all of these things happen, but the bottom line is if the DA decides to prosecute he will spin EVERYTHING you do in the worst possible light. It's his job.

If you're in a life endangering situation, don't think about the DA or what you've read here. Worry about your LIFE. Respond however you have to to protect your lives and those around you, and whatever happens in court just be grateful you're alive to witness it.

[Johnny Guest]

Hey, please, go back and re-read this thread from this point.

If you have reason to draw, you have reason to SHOOT, so why talk. KILL him! Guy with a knife is dangerous, so KILL HIM!

The original premise of this thread is a good one. Decide NOW what you're going to yell - - Have a plan. If you MUST shoot, you'll know it at the time. But at least allow for the possibility that the situation does NOT call for a killing.

Yeah, I've practiced the Tuller Drill; I know "The Magic Circle" or whatever they call it nowadays. I am NOT squeamish at the idea of shooting when I must. I just prefer to wait until that time. Waiting for the "GOTTA DO IT!" time is what sets us apart from the criminals, from the predators-upon- society . . . from the murderers.

Think about it, huh?

Johnny

[novus collectus]

He also asked for what he should yell (if anything) for bystanders present. I know that if I was behind some dude who pulled a gun without saying something like "stop" or "drop it" , I might act like the crazy hero and tackle the good guy because I would think they were doing a shooting rampage. Shouting something, if there is time to do so like in that particular mall situation that actually happened, would also provide bystanders that extra second to either keep from walking in front of you, or have a chance to duck if they are close to the line of fire. I honestly don't think it was a question from someone with a lack of confidence at all, but I agree with Jonny G. that it is one for preparation and having a plan.

[4S50]

"Better plug your ears"

Sorry, couldn't help myself...

[PythonGuy]

Just my opinions Daniel964, you guys do what you want, I really don't care. It is better talking about it on here first, before doing it in the streets. Its just funny to me that so much time is spent speculating on hypothetical situations. Things can happen if you carry or not, I just don't live life on the paranoid side, although I am very careful. My family thinks I am too careful and neurotic about safety, I laugh when reading a lot of this stuff because they'd think I was insane living on Long Island and thinking like this. Of course in remote areas things are different, but a lot of you are playing cowboy, go on, have fun, just don't get yourself killed or incarcerated.

[XavierBreath]

NOTHING. A warning is not required, IF the situation is sufficiently dire to mandate the use of lethal force.

I agree. I never was very good at public speaking.