Would you get involved PART 2 - Unedited!

Bo Hunter · February 24, 2005, 02:45 PM

Apparently that was an edited video. I was amazed when browsing this site as I thought it was going to be the same video... Little to my surprise....

Now what are your thoughts?? Would your actions differ than from the first video?

THE FULL LENGTH VIDEO!

reildeal · February 24, 2005, 02:51 PM

I can't exactly what happened to instigate this, but yes, I would still have jumped in on that. Sucker punches are for chumps.

rugerman13 · February 24, 2005, 03:07 PM

My opinion stayes the same, but if you will notice the guy in the white shirt, standing by the door, he has many oppertunites to defuse this situation. The attacker has his back to him almost the whole time. And it almost looked like the guy in the white shirt smiled at one point.

mvpel · February 24, 2005, 04:27 PM

Absolutely no difference in my hypothetical response. The victim being a loudmouthed jerk isn't listed anywhere in the law as an affirmative defense for a beat-down like this.

The moment after the first punch landed, the victim was in danger of immediate great bodily harm, and that's enough for defensive deadly force.

This sort of situation is what comes about when a society lives too long unarmed. I see it all the time in Massachusetts, too. People think they can strut around with inflated chests and enormous egos, being rude and inconsiderate to everyone around them, with no regard for anyone but themselves. Both the victim and his attacker demonstrated this attitude.

Not only that, but in such a society this kind of violence is greeted with a ho-hum or "none of my business" response like that exhibited by the people who appeared as if they didn't want to lose their place in line by helping the guy out, because thanks to decades of a strict ban on defensive-firearm carry, none of them had the tools, the training, or the mental readiness to put a stop to it.

This is the converse of the old adage, "an armed society is a polite society" - "an unarmed society is a rude society." It'll probably take another 20 years for Ohio to recover from the damage done by its concealed-carry ban.

Mannlicher · February 24, 2005, 04:54 PM

good thoughts there. When we let the government disarm us, we went back, as a society, to bullies enforcing their will with either fists, or threats of fists. We compounded the problem, by calling the use of escalated force, ie, gun or knife, "an inappropriate level of response". We have allowed government to put us back on the playground, and have let them limit our response to the level of violence that was perpetrated upon us by the bully.

snacktrack · February 24, 2005, 05:24 PM

I have to disagree, it shows what I was trying to say in my last post. He was not sucker punched. He did not prepare himself at all for getting hit. That situation went on for a good minute escalating before he got hit. As you can see he got aggressive back.

Althought that b*tch needed her #$%&! whooped, he should have just left at that point.

And as previously argued this first punch however devastating it was, he was in full capacity to fight back. HE DID NOT FIGHT FOR HIMSELF. I am sorry but he gave up and let himself be beat down. Maybe he will learn and be more alert and prepared next time. Luckily he wasnt killed, but I agree he could have easily.

Its funny how they edited it cleverly for the news. I still feel really disgusted about it, especially when I see that the woman provoked the whole thing poking him in his face. THe dumbass stays on the phone. I have had confrontations like this before, and I would stay my ground.

Now that I am CCW, I would have walked out of this situation in a heart beat, forget the pizza. He had plenty of time to leave.

BY the way Derius T, this is exactly what the guy looked like who came at me with his wooden beater bar and boxer attacking me. He was the same size and build, a huge black guy. I ran and I was lucky to escape with no injury at all. I am now much much more prepared thanks to alot of people's advice on here.

zulustyle · February 24, 2005, 05:39 PM

Howdy,
I'm glad someone was able to find this clip unedited. By NO means did that guy deserve the impeding beatdown....but don't tell me he did not see it coming. A good run is better than a bad stand any day. Its obvious the lady was crazy and beyond reason, that guy's sense of situational awareness should have kicked in . As soon as he saw that bohemeth he should have left, or at least gone into a defensive position.
I really thuink the BG should have gotten way more than 4 years, worst part is he will come out in 2 years a bigger ,stronger, more violent threat than before. I think providing you had a good shot the use of deadly force would have been justified.

reildeal · February 24, 2005, 05:43 PM

I hate to see what you consider a sucker punch. FatA$$ waited until the guy looked down and put his arm down to to hit him. He waited until the most opportune moment to hit the guy hard and clean in the face. While he was defenseless. IE. Sucker punch. Also Snack, Have you EVER been hit in the face? You mean to tell me that after taking a blow like that to the face, you know for certain you wouldn't be seeing stars? I'm sorry, but your statements are very presumptuous. I doubt he was able to fight back as he was taking blow after blow to the face. He even said he didn't remember past the 1st couple.

Troponin · February 24, 2005, 05:52 PM

The real kicker is that when you ban CCL, you prevent honest people from protecting themselves and allow criminals, alot of them armed, to commit more crime to the rest of society.

WaltherP99 · February 24, 2005, 06:05 PM

Quote:

the guy in the white shirt, standing by the door

He also backed up a couple of steps at one point cause the action was getting a little too close!

Quote:

Althought that b*tch needed her #$%&! whooped, he should have just left at that point.

Would you let a b**** (no offense to woman) poke you in the face and NOT say anything??? I wouldn't try to escalate the situation, but I sure as h*** would have something to say about it!

Quote:

THe dumbass stays on the phone

Doesn't he throw the phone on the floor after she pokes him in the face??? I could have sworn he threw in on the floor and then the BG picked it up after he was done and walked out. Mabye not.

Quote:

HE DID NOT FIGHT FOR HIMSELF

I agree with you here BUT I believe it is due to the first punch! I really don't think he knew if he was coming or going! He never really did prepare himself for what happened cause he probably didn't think it was gonna go as far as it did!

Another thing that got me with this un-cut version is the guy in the red shirt. He watches one or two of the punches and then walks out. But then decides to come back a few mintues later??? Another thing is after all the action was over.....THEY STOOD THERE AND STARED AT HIM!!!!! idiot's

snacktrack · February 24, 2005, 06:17 PM

Quote:

FatA$$ waited until the guy looked down and put his arm down to to hit him.

which is why he shouldnt have looked down. Hey I dont know about you, but if a huge black guy is standing in front of me obviously about to start something, I am not going to look away.

A sucker punch to me is when you have no idea you are about to get into a fight and you get hit, either from behind or if you have no idea you are in an escalating situation. Did you expect the bad guy to say, hey..I am about to hit you, brace yourself.

Quote:

Also Snack, Have you EVER been hit in the face? You mean to tell me that after taking a blow like that to the face, you know for certain you wouldn't be seeing stars? I'm sorry, but your statements are very presumptuous. I doubt he was able to fight back as he was taking blow after blow to the face. He even said he didn't remember past the 1st couple.

As a matter of fact I have been punched in the head several times and In my case it was a sucker punch. I was in Philly with all my friends watching the local street drag races. There were hundreds of people around. I was video taping the action with a camcorder in my right hand, I am right handed. Then the cops come and everyone runs to their car. Unfortunately I was talking to other people I met there, and my ride was way over to the other side. So I am stuck in a parking lot bymyself waiting for my friend to drive back around. All the sudden this dude comes up to me and is like , Hey you are Travis, right, and sticks his hand out to shake my hand with a smile. Ive never seen this dude before in my life. I reached out to hesitantly shake his hand with my left, since I had the camcorder in my right. As he is shaking my hand, he is like do you know who I am? I said no, how do you know me? And as I am saying that, he clenches my left hand really hard and hits me in the head several times. I drop the camcorder, and fight back with my good hand. Luckily it was broken up by some other people, cause I was by myself and this guy was with about 5 other guys. I didnt find out till a week later that a girl I was dating had been dating this guy before me, and she stopped seeing him after she met me, and he wanted revenge.

I have been in many fights, and even though this guy was alot bigger than me, I was fine, only a little blood from my nose, but I was perfectly able to fighting back.

I think this guy claims he doesnt remember much because it would make him less responsible for defending himself. I am not saying AT ALL that this guy deserved it, but it was no sucker punch and he had a full minute to prepare or leave. Thats my point. And you cant expect other strangers to endanger themselves that arent as big as the guy doing the punching.

OC spray would have been perfect, in fact I just ordered some last night after reeling about this video. SO in fact I do get caught in this kind of situation myself I can put the odds in my favor that I could beat a huge guy like that over the head with a chair if I had to defend my life and get the hell out of there. I would not go toe to toe with an animal like that if I could avoid it. I wouldnt become his doll however.

snacktrack · February 24, 2005, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Would you let a b**** (no offense to woman) poke you in the face and NOT say anything??? I wouldn't try to escalate the situation, but I sure as h*** would have something to say about it!

well, i definitely tend to yell and scream. and dont let people do that to me. but, there is NO WAY to stand your ground with this low life b*tch without escalating the situation.

If I was CCW, I would most definitely have to suck it up and leave. If the BG blocked me from leaving then I would draw while backing into the far corner yelling "leave me alone, I dont want to shoot you" and I would keep repeating it.

I dont bother anyone. I am polite and get mad when people dont thank me for holding open a door. I think what makes me mad about this whole video is that white people are so scared of black people that they completely turn into sheep. With that girl poking me in the face like that, you have to do something. I defintely agree. BUt tell me how you would do anything without escalating the situation Waltherp99? I'd like to hear your creative solution.

zulustyle · February 24, 2005, 06:59 PM

Howdy,
I also agree that the victim was'nt sucker punched, he chose not to prepare himself for a situation that was already violent. When the "GM" (Ghetto Momma) started raising issue with the resturant owner the victim should have gotten off the phone and paid attention. By definition GM assaulted the victim first by putting her fingers in his face. Sqauring off with someone often leads to a fight and he stood thier toe to toe with GM screaming back and forth. By the time the BG entered the picture it does'nt take a genuis to figure out where this was going to go.
None of us no for certain what would have happened if the victim had paid attention to his surroundings,he still may have been beaten but his own actions (or lack there of ) did not help the situation.

reildeal · February 24, 2005, 07:01 PM

I meant no offense snack, but I have been popped a couple of times to the point that I really didn't know what was going on. Two times that come to mind are:

Football practice. At strong safety, took the fullback helmet to helmet. Didn't get knocked unconscious, but wasn't completely coherent if you know what I mean.

Fight in a bar in LA. A buddy of mine and I got into it with a couple of guys and punches started getting thrown at my buddy. I automatically came to his aid. Little did I know they had 3 or 4 other guys with them. I was locked up with one and another cold cocked me in the face. Didn't lose consciousness, but went limp. Couldn't defend myself. The guys weren't any bigger than us, but that shot to the jaw made me see stars. When I finally realized what was happening again, I was on the ground getting kicked in the ribs and stomach, some people broke it up. Got kicked out of the bar with little more than a sore jaw and ribs, but my buddy and I laughed it off and went to another bar.

Now, keep in mind that I'm not in any way a weak guy and these guys were not any bigger or smaller the us. Also, I do know how to hold my own, and size doesn't scare me, but it only takes 1 shot to the head to put you in a state of recovery for more than the time it takes them to bring an assault.

I would also like to say that I agree with you that he should have been ready to defend himself. However, per my definition, waiting until someone isn't looking IS a sucker punch, but it's inevitable that people will have different perceptions on the same situation. The point is that someone should have done SOMEthing, and I have to say per some of the responses I have seen regarding this clip, there are some of you that I would be proud to have around me should I ever be the victim of an assault such as this, and there are some that I would not. Honestly, I'm willing to bet that you would be glad I was there in your time of need whether I was armed or not.

Bullrock · February 24, 2005, 07:02 PM

I hate to see what you consider a sucker punch. FatA$$ waited until the guy looked down and put his arm down to to hit him. He waited until the most opportune moment to hit the guy hard and clean in the face. While he was defenseless. IE. Sucker punch.

I can't get my computer running right and the quotation's won't work, but this is what I saw also. After the woman poked him (maybe finger nails) the guy got in her face and he was making his case. After she backed off, and while facing the boy friend, the victims hand went to his forehead, he wiped something (maybe blood, maybe sweat) looked down to see what was on his hand, and got sucker punched. My impression is, he didn't handle the situation very well. He must have known the Sucker Puncher didn't come in to discuss baseball. If he had been aware, he could have defensely positioned himself, or got the hell out of there. Maybe he'd had a few.

I commented on the guy in the white shirt in the prior post. I agree he was in the best position to defuse the situation. He seemed to be a good sized guy and young enough to get on the 'Sucker Punchers' back and try to pull him off.

I'm here to say I'm glad I don't know or live near any of the scumbags at that bar. I hope the victim successfully sues the [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] out of that bar and everyone in it!

There doesn't seem to be much to discuss, here unless some folks posting have hidden issues.

WaltherP99 · February 24, 2005, 07:05 PM

Quote:

BUt tell me how you would do anything without escalating the situation Waltherp99? I'd like to hear your creative solution.

I wouldn't throw a hissy fit for one! I would first question why it was done and try to calm this b**** down! If she continued to poke, push and yell at me than I would say or do something to escalate it! As for a "creative solution"??? Well, I can think of quite a few of them!!!

Quote:

I think what makes me mad about this whole video is that white people are so scared of black people that they completely turn into sheep.

I really don't believe that is an issue here, IMHO. I think this "fear" had to do more with the size of this guy! Anyone would have been a little intimidated (pending on the size difference). And I for one can say that I think I would have been alot dazed after that punch (and I am not what you would call a small guy!!!)

Troponin · February 24, 2005, 07:20 PM

I have to agree with the fact that many white people are afraid of blacks. It is the general stero type that all blacks can fight and are tough. I can't say that I don't fear a black person, but, I can tell you that my fear of a black person would make me more of an opponant in a fight.

Whenever dealing with punks, the rule of thumb is, they are most likely not alone. Sort of like the bar scene. It is not usually the drunk guy in your face you have to worry about, it's the 10 drunk buddies behind you that you don't see.

abelew · February 24, 2005, 07:32 PM

I imagine that that kind of punch coming from a guy that size (damn near threw him out the door with one punch, would faze/daze me pretty good. As for the girl in my face, you have to wonder why she is in his face (not to say he was right to get a beat-down like that). I would have just left, discretion is the better part of valor. If I couldn't, I would at least have walked the other direction, and ordered the clerk to call 911, loudly, and repetitly, and found a weapon to use. Kick him in the nuts (I know its not gentelmanly), forks, knives, chairs, whatever. A situation like that, you have to think creativly, and most of all, just try to get out of there. Im 6'3" 209 lb, and not too small. I wouldn't have fought that guy, unless I had to, and if I did, it wouldnt be a fair fight. Then I'd sue the rest of those guys for not even trying to help me after the guy left. Sheesh, aren't there at least some guys who could do that?

Bullrock · February 24, 2005, 07:38 PM

And I for one can say that I think I would have been alot dazed after that punch (and I am not what you would call a small guy!!!)

Rocky Marciano weighed less than 190 lbs. his entire career in the ring. He flattened allot of big white guys and big black guys, who trained just as hard.

I agree with Troponin to some extent. I think whites in general, fear the consequences of their actions more. That may lead to lack of action, and sometimes that ain't good!

zulustyle · February 24, 2005, 07:59 PM

Howdy,
Good call abelew!!!, Seeing as how the lady already spat on the resturant worker and attempted to instigate a fight by jabbing her fingers in your face would have been enough for the cops to have come a charge her with battery and a couple of other charges. If the victim was not prepared to be in a fight he should have walked away from the situation and called the cops. As I 've stated earlier there's a good chance the BG would have still assaulted the victim. I just feel that when GM and the victim stood there face to face shouting at one another his fate was more or less sealed.
I am curious however as to why people have posted about white people naturally fearing black people. As a black male I must admit that relevation is somewhat disturbing. I would hope that the fear or worry would be based on how a person carries themselves as opposed to the color of thier skin. A thug, is a thug, is a thug be black,brown, white or asian , not to mention the BG was probally 300+ lbs. Who the heck would'nt be scared of that ? If the BG in this scenario had been 5'3" 140 lbs. you probally would have seen people jump to the victim's aid after the first couple of punches.

Full Metal Jacket · February 24, 2005, 08:04 PM

That's the only reason why im slightly afriad to pack heat (carry)-
a guy sucker punches you, you are unconcious, he finds and grabs your gun, good bye. guess u gotta be real cautious when carrying.
if i was a bystander and i was carrying and is saw it, i dont think i would of shot the BG. I don't think the BG could kill the victim unarmed easily. I would have put the magazine in my pocket, rack the slide, put the live round in the chamber in my pocket, and if it was a 1911 or a revolver, melee the BG with it

Metellus · February 24, 2005, 08:17 PM

This was pointed out in the other thread. It was a sucker punch yet it really wasn't since there should have been warning flags.

What I notice about a lot of victims of the "sucker punch" is that they do that moronic posturing where they have hands down and stick their chest out against a threat. During this posture that screams out "punch me in the head i'm defenseless" they get hit.

The victim in this case did the same thing. As for the all the bystanders it wasn't like the punch came out of nowhere it seems they had almost a full minute from the first warning signs to the punch that there could be danger.

zulustyle · February 24, 2005, 08:53 PM

Howdy,
I just watched the video again and again. How many oppurtunities did the victim have to leave before something really bad happen? Better yet as the incident occurred how many people made an attempt to leave ? Common sense says if you are in a bad situation try to get out of it but no one left. Perhaps its the same reason people rubber neck to see an auto accident. Maybe morbid curiosity had something to do with it.
I must admit that after I saw the first edited version of the clip I had a lot more sympathy for the victim. After seeing the unedited version however I find it a lot harder to have sympathy for the victim. The victim made no attempt to avoid or difuse the situation. The victim actually thew gas on what was already past a volitile situation by arguing with GM. No one deseres a beat-down like that, but after seeing the whole video clip once again how many people would be willing to risk their life/own personal safety for a victim that clearly had little regard for his own ?

Solomon Grundy · February 24, 2005, 08:54 PM

Hey everybody, I'm brand new here, to posting that is, I've lurked for a while though.

Just seeing this video made me want to post. I guess I just want to say that the reaction of the people in that place was pathetic. It also it makes me want to get my CCW permit all the more.

abelew · February 24, 2005, 09:34 PM

While the size of the BG would warrent deadly force (by my understanding) because his size and apparent ability to open a can of whoop-ass (damn near tossed that guy like a rag doll with punches), drawing in that kind of situation would be bad (if you were the victom), because there is a lesser chance that the BG would take the gun off you if he doesn't know about it. If you draw, and he punches you again, takes your gun, now he is armed. Even if he doesn't use it on you, he might use it on someone else that his girl got mad at for scratching their eyebrow the wrong way. The victim was inherently stupid in his actions, however, in hindsight I imagine he would do things differently. If you weren't in a mindset for that kind of situation (thinking about it beforehand-not the particular situation, but a fight in general), then would you be prepared for it when it happened? I doubt I would. I'm supprised that the girl didnt get a battery, and battery by bodily fluids (different name in diff places, if it exists as a seperate charge).

February 24, 2005, 02:45 PM	#1
Bo Hunter Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2004 Location: New York Posts: 107	Would you get involved PART 2 - Unedited! Apparently that was an edited video. I was amazed when browsing this site as I thought it was going to be the same video... Little to my surprise.... Now what are your thoughts?? Would your actions differ than from the first video? THE FULL LENGTH VIDEO!

February 24, 2005, 04:27 PM	#4
mvpel Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2000 Location: Hooksett, NH Posts: 1,847	Absolutely no difference in my hypothetical response. The victim being a loudmouthed jerk isn't listed anywhere in the law as an affirmative defense for a beat-down like this. The moment after the first punch landed, the victim was in danger of immediate great bodily harm, and that's enough for defensive deadly force. This sort of situation is what comes about when a society lives too long unarmed. I see it all the time in Massachusetts, too. People think they can strut around with inflated chests and enormous egos, being rude and inconsiderate to everyone around them, with no regard for anyone but themselves. Both the victim and his attacker demonstrated this attitude. Not only that, but in such a society this kind of violence is greeted with a ho-hum or "none of my business" response like that exhibited by the people who appeared as if they didn't want to lose their place in line by helping the guy out, because thanks to decades of a strict ban on defensive-firearm carry, none of them had the tools, the training, or the mental readiness to put a stop to it. This is the converse of the old adage, "an armed society is a polite society" - "an unarmed society is a rude society." It'll probably take another 20 years for Ohio to recover from the damage done by its concealed-carry ban. __________________ Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, "Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!" 1 Samuel 13:19

February 24, 2005, 04:54 PM	#5
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,210	good thoughts there. When we let the government disarm us, we went back, as a society, to bullies enforcing their will with either fists, or threats of fists. We compounded the problem, by calling the use of escalated force, ie, gun or knife, "an inappropriate level of response". We have allowed government to put us back on the playground, and have let them limit our response to the level of violence that was perpetrated upon us by the bully. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

February 24, 2005, 02:51 PM	#2
reildeal Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 115	I can't exactly what happened to instigate this, but yes, I would still have jumped in on that. Sucker punches are for chumps.

February 24, 2005, 03:07 PM	#3
rugerman13 Member Join Date: February 22, 2005 Location: L.A. ( lower alabama ) Posts: 25	My opinion stayes the same, but if you will notice the guy in the white shirt, standing by the door, he has many oppertunites to defuse this situation. The attacker has his back to him almost the whole time. And it almost looked like the guy in the white shirt smiled at one point.

February 24, 2005, 05:24 PM	#6
snacktrack Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Location: Wilmington DE Posts: 291	I have to disagree, it shows what I was trying to say in my last post. He was not sucker punched. He did not prepare himself at all for getting hit. That situation went on for a good minute escalating before he got hit. As you can see he got aggressive back. Althought that b*tch needed her #$%&! whooped, he should have just left at that point. And as previously argued this first punch however devastating it was, he was in full capacity to fight back. HE DID NOT FIGHT FOR HIMSELF. I am sorry but he gave up and let himself be beat down. Maybe he will learn and be more alert and prepared next time. Luckily he wasnt killed, but I agree he could have easily. Its funny how they edited it cleverly for the news. I still feel really disgusted about it, especially when I see that the woman provoked the whole thing poking him in his face. THe dumbass stays on the phone. I have had confrontations like this before, and I would stay my ground. Now that I am CCW, I would have walked out of this situation in a heart beat, forget the pizza. He had plenty of time to leave. BY the way Derius T, this is exactly what the guy looked like who came at me with his wooden beater bar and boxer attacking me. He was the same size and build, a huge black guy. I ran and I was lucky to escape with no injury at all. I am now much much more prepared thanks to alot of people's advice on here.

February 24, 2005, 05:39 PM	#7
zulustyle Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2004 Location: metro Atlanta, Ga Posts: 103	Howdy, I'm glad someone was able to find this clip unedited. By NO means did that guy deserve the impeding beatdown....but don't tell me he did not see it coming. A good run is better than a bad stand any day. Its obvious the lady was crazy and beyond reason, that guy's sense of situational awareness should have kicked in . As soon as he saw that bohemeth he should have left, or at least gone into a defensive position. I really thuink the BG should have gotten way more than 4 years, worst part is he will come out in 2 years a bigger ,stronger, more violent threat than before. I think providing you had a good shot the use of deadly force would have been justified.

February 24, 2005, 05:43 PM	#8
reildeal Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 115	I hate to see what you consider a sucker punch. FatA$$ waited until the guy looked down and put his arm down to to hit him. He waited until the most opportune moment to hit the guy hard and clean in the face. While he was defenseless. IE. Sucker punch. Also Snack, Have you EVER been hit in the face? You mean to tell me that after taking a blow like that to the face, you know for certain you wouldn't be seeing stars? I'm sorry, but your statements are very presumptuous. I doubt he was able to fight back as he was taking blow after blow to the face. He even said he didn't remember past the 1st couple.

February 24, 2005, 05:52 PM	#9
Troponin Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Pencil vain ea Posts: 380	The real kicker is that when you ban CCL, you prevent honest people from protecting themselves and allow criminals, alot of them armed, to commit more crime to the rest of society.

February 24, 2005, 06:59 PM	#13
zulustyle Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2004 Location: metro Atlanta, Ga Posts: 103	Howdy, I also agree that the victim was'nt sucker punched, he chose not to prepare himself for a situation that was already violent. When the "GM" (Ghetto Momma) started raising issue with the resturant owner the victim should have gotten off the phone and paid attention. By definition GM assaulted the victim first by putting her fingers in his face. Sqauring off with someone often leads to a fight and he stood thier toe to toe with GM screaming back and forth. By the time the BG entered the picture it does'nt take a genuis to figure out where this was going to go. None of us no for certain what would have happened if the victim had paid attention to his surroundings,he still may have been beaten but his own actions (or lack there of ) did not help the situation.

February 24, 2005, 07:01 PM	#14
reildeal Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 115	I meant no offense snack, but I have been popped a couple of times to the point that I really didn't know what was going on. Two times that come to mind are: Football practice. At strong safety, took the fullback helmet to helmet. Didn't get knocked unconscious, but wasn't completely coherent if you know what I mean. Fight in a bar in LA. A buddy of mine and I got into it with a couple of guys and punches started getting thrown at my buddy. I automatically came to his aid. Little did I know they had 3 or 4 other guys with them. I was locked up with one and another cold cocked me in the face. Didn't lose consciousness, but went limp. Couldn't defend myself. The guys weren't any bigger than us, but that shot to the jaw made me see stars. When I finally realized what was happening again, I was on the ground getting kicked in the ribs and stomach, some people broke it up. Got kicked out of the bar with little more than a sore jaw and ribs, but my buddy and I laughed it off and went to another bar. Now, keep in mind that I'm not in any way a weak guy and these guys were not any bigger or smaller the us. Also, I do know how to hold my own, and size doesn't scare me, but it only takes 1 shot to the head to put you in a state of recovery for more than the time it takes them to bring an assault. I would also like to say that I agree with you that he should have been ready to defend himself. However, per my definition, waiting until someone isn't looking IS a sucker punch, but it's inevitable that people will have different perceptions on the same situation. The point is that someone should have done SOMEthing, and I have to say per some of the responses I have seen regarding this clip, there are some of you that I would be proud to have around me should I ever be the victim of an assault such as this, and there are some that I would not. Honestly, I'm willing to bet that you would be glad I was there in your time of need whether I was armed or not.

February 24, 2005, 07:02 PM	#15
Bullrock Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2004 Posts: 2,686	I hate to see what you consider a sucker punch. FatA$$ waited until the guy looked down and put his arm down to to hit him. He waited until the most opportune moment to hit the guy hard and clean in the face. While he was defenseless. IE. Sucker punch. I can't get my computer running right and the quotation's won't work, but this is what I saw also. After the woman poked him (maybe finger nails) the guy got in her face and he was making his case. After she backed off, and while facing the boy friend, the victims hand went to his forehead, he wiped something (maybe blood, maybe sweat) looked down to see what was on his hand, and got sucker punched. My impression is, he didn't handle the situation very well. He must have known the Sucker Puncher didn't come in to discuss baseball. If he had been aware, he could have defensely positioned himself, or got the hell out of there. Maybe he'd had a few. I commented on the guy in the white shirt in the prior post. I agree he was in the best position to defuse the situation. He seemed to be a good sized guy and young enough to get on the 'Sucker Punchers' back and try to pull him off. I'm here to say I'm glad I don't know or live near any of the scumbags at that bar. I hope the victim successfully sues the [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] out of that bar and everyone in it! There doesn't seem to be much to discuss, here unless some folks posting have hidden issues.

February 24, 2005, 07:20 PM	#17
Troponin Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Pencil vain ea Posts: 380	I have to agree with the fact that many white people are afraid of blacks. It is the general stero type that all blacks can fight and are tough. I can't say that I don't fear a black person, but, I can tell you that my fear of a black person would make me more of an opponant in a fight. Whenever dealing with punks, the rule of thumb is, they are most likely not alone. Sort of like the bar scene. It is not usually the drunk guy in your face you have to worry about, it's the 10 drunk buddies behind you that you don't see.

February 24, 2005, 07:32 PM	#18
abelew Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 778	I imagine that that kind of punch coming from a guy that size (damn near threw him out the door with one punch, would faze/daze me pretty good. As for the girl in my face, you have to wonder why she is in his face (not to say he was right to get a beat-down like that). I would have just left, discretion is the better part of valor. If I couldn't, I would at least have walked the other direction, and ordered the clerk to call 911, loudly, and repetitly, and found a weapon to use. Kick him in the nuts (I know its not gentelmanly), forks, knives, chairs, whatever. A situation like that, you have to think creativly, and most of all, just try to get out of there. Im 6'3" 209 lb, and not too small. I wouldn't have fought that guy, unless I had to, and if I did, it wouldnt be a fair fight. Then I'd sue the rest of those guys for not even trying to help me after the guy left. Sheesh, aren't there at least some guys who could do that?

February 24, 2005, 07:38 PM	#19
Bullrock Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2004 Posts: 2,686	And I for one can say that I think I would have been alot dazed after that punch (and I am not what you would call a small guy!!!) Rocky Marciano weighed less than 190 lbs. his entire career in the ring. He flattened allot of big white guys and big black guys, who trained just as hard. I agree with Troponin to some extent. I think whites in general, fear the consequences of their actions more. That may lead to lack of action, and sometimes that ain't good!

February 24, 2005, 07:59 PM	#20
zulustyle Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2004 Location: metro Atlanta, Ga Posts: 103	Howdy, Good call abelew!!!, Seeing as how the lady already spat on the resturant worker and attempted to instigate a fight by jabbing her fingers in your face would have been enough for the cops to have come a charge her with battery and a couple of other charges. If the victim was not prepared to be in a fight he should have walked away from the situation and called the cops. As I 've stated earlier there's a good chance the BG would have still assaulted the victim. I just feel that when GM and the victim stood there face to face shouting at one another his fate was more or less sealed. I am curious however as to why people have posted about white people naturally fearing black people. As a black male I must admit that relevation is somewhat disturbing. I would hope that the fear or worry would be based on how a person carries themselves as opposed to the color of thier skin. A thug, is a thug, is a thug be black,brown, white or asian , not to mention the BG was probally 300+ lbs. Who the heck would'nt be scared of that ? If the BG in this scenario had been 5'3" 140 lbs. you probally would have seen people jump to the victim's aid after the first couple of punches.

February 24, 2005, 08:04 PM	#21
Full Metal Jacket Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 260	That's the only reason why im slightly afriad to pack heat (carry)- a guy sucker punches you, you are unconcious, he finds and grabs your gun, good bye. guess u gotta be real cautious when carrying. if i was a bystander and i was carrying and is saw it, i dont think i would of shot the BG. I don't think the BG could kill the victim unarmed easily. I would have put the magazine in my pocket, rack the slide, put the live round in the chamber in my pocket, and if it was a 1911 or a revolver, melee the BG with it

February 24, 2005, 08:17 PM	#22
Metellus Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Posts: 156	This was pointed out in the other thread. It was a sucker punch yet it really wasn't since there should have been warning flags. What I notice about a lot of victims of the "sucker punch" is that they do that moronic posturing where they have hands down and stick their chest out against a threat. During this posture that screams out "punch me in the head i'm defenseless" they get hit. The victim in this case did the same thing. As for the all the bystanders it wasn't like the punch came out of nowhere it seems they had almost a full minute from the first warning signs to the punch that there could be danger.

February 24, 2005, 08:53 PM	#23
zulustyle Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2004 Location: metro Atlanta, Ga Posts: 103	Howdy, I just watched the video again and again. How many oppurtunities did the victim have to leave before something really bad happen? Better yet as the incident occurred how many people made an attempt to leave ? Common sense says if you are in a bad situation try to get out of it but no one left. Perhaps its the same reason people rubber neck to see an auto accident. Maybe morbid curiosity had something to do with it. I must admit that after I saw the first edited version of the clip I had a lot more sympathy for the victim. After seeing the unedited version however I find it a lot harder to have sympathy for the victim. The victim made no attempt to avoid or difuse the situation. The victim actually thew gas on what was already past a volitile situation by arguing with GM. No one deseres a beat-down like that, but after seeing the whole video clip once again how many people would be willing to risk their life/own personal safety for a victim that clearly had little regard for his own ?

February 24, 2005, 08:54 PM	#24
Solomon Grundy Junior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Posts: 1	Hey everybody, I'm brand new here, to posting that is, I've lurked for a while though. Just seeing this video made me want to post. I guess I just want to say that the reaction of the people in that place was pathetic. It also it makes me want to get my CCW permit all the more.

February 24, 2005, 09:34 PM	#25
abelew Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 778	While the size of the BG would warrent deadly force (by my understanding) because his size and apparent ability to open a can of whoop-ass (damn near tossed that guy like a rag doll with punches), drawing in that kind of situation would be bad (if you were the victom), because there is a lesser chance that the BG would take the gun off you if he doesn't know about it. If you draw, and he punches you again, takes your gun, now he is armed. Even if he doesn't use it on you, he might use it on someone else that his girl got mad at for scratching their eyebrow the wrong way. The victim was inherently stupid in his actions, however, in hindsight I imagine he would do things differently. If you weren't in a mindset for that kind of situation (thinking about it beforehand-not the particular situation, but a fight in general), then would you be prepared for it when it happened? I doubt I would. I'm supprised that the girl didnt get a battery, and battery by bodily fluids (different name in diff places, if it exists as a seperate charge).