Yikes! Or - .38squibs

Borf · August 9, 2002, 04:55 PM

Went to the range today and intended to shoot up the tail end of a batch I loaded in December. (38spl, 158 gr LSWC over 4.3 gr unique)... I shot the first part in Dec and haven't shot any more until today... anyway...

100 rounds in box. In first cylinder got a failure to ignite. In second cylinder got a squib (barely seated bullet in bbl). In 4th cylinder or so got ANOTHER SQUIB seating bullet half way up bbl. Realizing this is no longer coincidence, the rest of the ammo will not be shot.

I'm just suprised that the stuff "went bad" so quickly. Stored in dry and dark hall closet.

indeed.

C.R.Sam · August 9, 2002, 05:07 PM

Sounds like maby the primers were contaminated prior to or during loading.
Did you show lots of unburned powder with the squibs ?

Of course, little or no powder will also do that.

Sam

blades67 · August 9, 2002, 05:14 PM

Maybe the powder was contaminated by the bullet lube. Does that closet get hot?

HerbG · August 10, 2002, 11:18 AM

I had the same experience with a batch of .38 Special handloads that I carried to the range in a car trunk. Heat caused the bullet lube to melt and contaminate the powder charge.

Borf · August 13, 2002, 07:50 PM

I may have to go with the lube theory. One of these nights I'll pull a bunch and see if the powder be lubed. Range is outdoors. Ammo sitting on conrete bench. Ammo kept out of direct sunlight, but was still typical mid 90s Tennessee summer day.

WESHOOT2 · August 13, 2002, 10:16 PM

I have never had a centerfire squib (22LR, 1980/81?).

I've driven around with test ammo in my trunk ( testing storage capability) for over 18 months with no discernible change.

Bullet lube melt? Possible.............something went wrong.

Still have specific load data (primer/powder lots, etc...)?

labgrade · August 14, 2002, 12:31 AM

Read a gun rag article many moons back & the writer (Skeeter ?) made mention of some "cow-killer" loads he made up for a bud.

They turned out way low-powered & squibby-like.

Turns out (in this article anyway) that the plasticizers in the powder hopper had contaminated the powder - outgassing over time. The writer had kept the powder in the hopper for quite a while - maybe just topping off when needed.

Beats me. Sounded plausible ....

Weshoot, you ever run across anything along this theme?

WESHOOT2 · August 16, 2002, 10:39 PM

Maybe same article.......

Know certain powders erode hoppers.

Hmmm......all possibilities.

Borf · August 18, 2002, 02:29 AM

WESHOOT2 - haven't pulled 'em yet, but this is what I got:

158 gr LSWC from T&T reloading

4.3 gr. unique ... yellow stamping half faded off but can make out <blah blah blah LOT 481>. This IS the can this batch was loaded from.

loaded to COAL of ~1.464"

cci small pistol primer (500)... not sure where to find lot #... there's a "1000" towards top of box and "50054" towards bottom
... although I'm not 100% sure this is the same box of 1000 this batch is loaded from...

I load with the 3 die carbide set from Lee... crimped flush into first cannelure.

Suppose I should do the following:

WARNING: This load is right smack dab in the middle of what my manuals say is good and proper for .38 special... but if your gun blows up it's no one's fault but your own.

Edited to add that I do not keep powder in hopper (Lee turret press). Hopper is emptied after each loading session.

WESHOOT2 · August 18, 2002, 08:17 AM

1) Try different primer; suggest Federal.

2) Seat primers using RCBS hand-priming tool.

3) Using SAME powder try same load using different primer.

4) Suggest Hodgdon Universal Clays.

5) Crimp 'medium' using REDDING Profile Crimp die.

6) Seat primers using some other tool or press.

Cain R · August 20, 2002, 01:24 AM

Borf, I had the EXACT same problem with Unique with a 4.3 gr load, CCI primers ect. Over 60% of the 100 rds acted like yours.

Pulled the bullets all of the rounds had powder and the primers were brand new.

I solved the problem by going to a med/heavy load with WW231, with the same primers, bullets, cases etc., I've gotten 100% reliablilty with the new powder.

Master Blaster · August 23, 2002, 09:15 AM

Pull 20 and check them and let us know. you may have had the powder dispenser get clogged on you.

I very much doubt the lube melted and ruined the powder.
Could have been bad primers or powder cause you noted the containers were very old.

How does the powder in the can smell? Acrid or sweet?

WESHOOT2 · August 24, 2002, 02:04 AM

Maybe you could try upping your Unique charge slightly?

Or....

Maybe you could try a pound of something different?

August 9, 2002, 04:55 PM	#1
Borf Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 424	Yikes! Or - .38squibs Went to the range today and intended to shoot up the tail end of a batch I loaded in December. (38spl, 158 gr LSWC over 4.3 gr unique)... I shot the first part in Dec and haven't shot any more until today... anyway... 100 rounds in box. In first cylinder got a failure to ignite. In second cylinder got a squib (barely seated bullet in bbl). In 4th cylinder or so got ANOTHER SQUIB seating bullet half way up bbl. Realizing this is no longer coincidence, the rest of the ammo will not be shot. I'm just suprised that the stuff "went bad" so quickly. Stored in dry and dark hall closet. indeed.

August 13, 2002, 10:16 PM	#6
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	hmmmmm.......... I have never had a centerfire squib (22LR, 1980/81?). I've driven around with test ammo in my trunk ( testing storage capability) for over 18 months with no discernible change. Bullet lube melt? Possible.............something went wrong. Still have specific load data (primer/powder lots, etc...)?

August 18, 2002, 08:17 AM	#10
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	THOUGHTS 1) Try different primer; suggest Federal. 2) Seat primers using RCBS hand-priming tool. 3) Using SAME powder try same load using different primer. 4) Suggest Hodgdon Universal Clays. 5) Crimp 'medium' using REDDING Profile Crimp die. 6) Seat primers using some other tool or press.

August 24, 2002, 02:04 AM	#13
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	ALL GOOD Maybe you could try upping your Unique charge slightly? Or.... Maybe you could try a pound of something different?

August 9, 2002, 05:07 PM	#2
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Sounds like maby the primers were contaminated prior to or during loading. Did you show lots of unburned powder with the squibs ? Of course, little or no powder will also do that. Sam

August 9, 2002, 05:14 PM	#3
blades67 Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 1999 Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA Posts: 6,014	Maybe the powder was contaminated by the bullet lube. Does that closet get hot?

August 10, 2002, 11:18 AM	#4
HerbG Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2000 Posts: 111	I had the same experience with a batch of .38 Special handloads that I carried to the range in a car trunk. Heat caused the bullet lube to melt and contaminate the powder charge.

August 13, 2002, 07:50 PM	#5
Borf Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 424	I may have to go with the lube theory. One of these nights I'll pull a bunch and see if the powder be lubed. Range is outdoors. Ammo sitting on conrete bench. Ammo kept out of direct sunlight, but was still typical mid 90s Tennessee summer day.

August 14, 2002, 12:31 AM	#7
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Read a gun rag article many moons back & the writer (Skeeter ?) made mention of some "cow-killer" loads he made up for a bud. They turned out way low-powered & squibby-like. Turns out (in this article anyway) that the plasticizers in the powder hopper had contaminated the powder - outgassing over time. The writer had kept the powder in the hopper for quite a while - maybe just topping off when needed. Beats me. Sounded plausible .... Weshoot, you ever run across anything along this theme?

August 16, 2002, 10:39 PM	#8
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Maybe same article....... Know certain powders erode hoppers. Hmmm......all possibilities.

August 18, 2002, 02:29 AM	#9
Borf Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 424	WESHOOT2 - haven't pulled 'em yet, but this is what I got: 158 gr LSWC from T&T reloading 4.3 gr. unique ... yellow stamping half faded off but can make out <blah blah blah LOT 481>. This IS the can this batch was loaded from. loaded to COAL of ~1.464" cci small pistol primer (500)... not sure where to find lot #... there's a "1000" towards top of box and "50054" towards bottom ... although I'm not 100% sure this is the same box of 1000 this batch is loaded from... I load with the 3 die carbide set from Lee... crimped flush into first cannelure. Suppose I should do the following: WARNING: This load is right smack dab in the middle of what my manuals say is good and proper for .38 special... but if your gun blows up it's no one's fault but your own. Edited to add that I do not keep powder in hopper (Lee turret press). Hopper is emptied after each loading session.

August 20, 2002, 01:24 AM	#11
Cain R Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2001 Location: Peoples Dominion of Kanada Posts: 288	Borf, I had the EXACT same problem with Unique with a 4.3 gr load, CCI primers ect. Over 60% of the 100 rds acted like yours. Pulled the bullets all of the rounds had powder and the primers were brand new. I solved the problem by going to a med/heavy load with WW231, with the same primers, bullets, cases etc., I've gotten 100% reliablilty with the new powder.

August 23, 2002, 09:15 AM	#12
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	Pull 20 and check them and let us know. you may have had the powder dispenser get clogged on you. I very much doubt the lube melted and ruined the powder. Could have been bad primers or powder cause you noted the containers were very old. How does the powder in the can smell? Acrid or sweet?