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Old March 27, 2000, 04:44 PM   #1
Oleg Volk
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Just curious how smaller scatterguns stack up in real life.
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Old March 27, 2000, 05:29 PM   #2
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Friend was shot at point-blank range w/ .410 w/ birdshot (negligent discharge) when a teen. He lived, but doctor told him if penetration had been less than 1/2" more...
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Old March 27, 2000, 06:38 PM   #3
Dave McC
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20 ga, same results as 12s at close range, 28 is so rare I'll wager the database is miniscule, Oleg. Some Baltimore Narco cops used/may still use 20 ga for serving warrants. I'm out of the loop these days.

One convict I knew had been shot in the knee at close range with a 20. He lost the leg from the knee down.
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Old March 27, 2000, 10:08 PM   #4
Al Thompson
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Oleg, I've cleaned several deer that were popped with a 20. Not sure of the buckshot size, but penetration was very adequate.

FWIW, in my club, I rarely see buckshot exit, unless it's a finishing shot. There are usually a few under the skin on the far side and the majority are lodged in the rib cage. There is usually some flattening of the individual pellets.

If your using a premium plated buck in "OO" or "000", the exits jump way up. The guys who use those loads are usually willing to take a longer shot - 40 to 50 yards. They're usually the guys who've patterned their guns and are aware of the range limits.

I have also cleaned a few that were hit with 12ga # 4 buck but remember no great impressions one way or the other. My favorite load was/is premium # 1 buck for deer, # 4 for smaller critters ('coon and coyote).

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Old March 27, 2000, 10:47 PM   #5
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the first deer i harvested was a sholder point shot with a 20 gauge slug. She dropped 10 feet from where i shot it. The deer was about 70 feet from where i was standing. i aimed the bead sights and filled the freezer.

A 410 slug bounces off of stumps. It's designed for small game.

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Old March 28, 2000, 01:07 AM   #6
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Man, out to about 25 feet, a .410 loaded with #9 birdshot will kill you deader than a door nail. Remember, a 1/2 oz load of birdshot is the equivalent of about a 220 gr lead bullet but the shotshell load is 'pre-fragmented' like the expensive self-defense pistol loads.

A 12 guage with a 1 1/8 load is almost 500 gr of lead.

Respect all shotguns from .410 up. They all can kill you dead.
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Old March 28, 2000, 11:55 AM   #7
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See my post. This individual was shot at less than 10 ft with #6 or #7. I can try to contact him (been years since I heard the story), but I'm sure he would have still been fighting, if he had been a threat. Reconsider.
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Old March 29, 2000, 10:08 PM   #8
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As a cop I've seen several shootings involving shotguns. One incident involved a domestic case in which the female shot the male in the chest with a 20 ga single barrel from about 15 feet. The load was #8 shot, don't remember brand or powder. The male was knocked onto his back and never (ever) got up. Another was a would-be burgler who was peppered by a .410 at approx. 15 yards. I only remember it being a three inch shell that was used and remember thinking it did a lot more damage than expected. Didn't knock him down but as he was hit in the face he decided to find the nearest hospital. His face looked like fresh hamburger and I think he lost an eye. A husband used a 20 ga pump to murder his wife and infant child (2 shots) and then attempted suicide by placing the muzzle under his chin. He removed most of his face but was still on his feet when we arrived on the scene and is alive today. The rest involved 12 ga shotguns.
The only conclusions I have drawn are that humans are the toughest creature on God's earth and a good shotgun and the right load can't be beat within 25 yards. By the way, my main house gun is a 12 ga pump. Jake
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Old March 30, 2000, 11:50 AM   #9
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My dad just told me about this one last week. It was in his local paper and if I can get more details I will. Basically though, two local kids were hanging out in an abandoned house drinking and smoking dope. One owned a sawed off .20 double and decided to shoot it off. He fired one barrel. This sparked teh interest of the other kid who, in his drunkin/druged stupor, "wanted to know what it felt like" to have a shotgun pointed at him (no lie! that was the papers quote!). So, his pal obliged and pressed the barrel of the .20 against his chest. And he tripped the trigger while doing it.

This kid took a .20 blast at point blank in the chest and lived!! hH's apparently full of pellets and the doctors are leaving them in rather than risk removing them but he'll basically be fine. He was out of the hospital in a day or so and showing the X-rays with all the pellets in chest to his friends!! Too stupid to realize how lucky he was I guess. he thinks the whole thing was funny! Local police are umamused however and are pressing charges against his pal for weapons violations and aggravated assault.

Not sure what kind of laod the kid had in the gun but still, I'd have thought even bird shot would have torn someone wide open at point blank! I dunno if this kid was just extremely lucky or what.
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Old March 30, 2000, 09:10 PM   #10
Edmund Rowe
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I think applying Murphy's Law to shotgun effectiveness here is a good idea:

"If you are shooting someone with a .410/28 gauge/20 gauge, then never assume it will put the guy down with one blast. On the other hand, if they are shooting at YOU, then never assume one blast will be survivable"

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Old March 31, 2000, 10:33 AM   #11
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410 deer slugs bouncing off a stump, get real!!

A 410 loaded with deer slugs is most adaquate for home defense load.
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Old March 31, 2000, 11:32 AM   #12
Oleg Volk
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Um, I fired .410 slugs at a tree stump and they had, indeed, bounced off. 357 mag SP went through and tore a huge hole, .32 lodged in the wood, .223 went through cleanly.
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