problem with LRN

dead i · March 16, 2002, 09:04 AM

Back to my problems with my first attempt at handloading .45 with 230 gr. LRN. My Speer #13 calls for 5.3 gr. Unique set at 1.270". My test dummies failed the "drop round in pistol barrel" test until I got down to 1.235". That is to say the test rounds wouldn't fall out freely when barrel is turned upside down until 1.235". That's when the test round sat in the chamber the same as a factory round height wise. The little nicks in the lead nose I was getting was from me cycling the test round thru the pistol, NOT from the rifling, like I first thought.(I'm such a dummy!) My question is do you think it's safe to use 5.3 gr. at 1.235"? Thanks in advance. Great to be back, thanks to TFL for providing a place to learn these things without getting hurt!

zanthope · March 16, 2002, 09:38 AM

My Lee manual calls for a MAXIMUM load of Unique of 5 grains, with an OAL minimum of 1.190.

Sounds like you need a Lee FCD, too, that will re-shape the LOADED round on the last step.

Edward429451 · March 16, 2002, 10:37 AM

I've loaded thousands of 225 gr LRN at 6.5 gr of Unique at 1.225 OAL, and never had a problem. Switched to WW-231 after awhile, gives better results and a little cleaner burning.

The Lyman book says 5.5 to 7.3 gr of Unique for the 225 LRN

But dont take my advice! This is just what works for me in my pistols...(Colt.)

Frank Iacono · March 16, 2002, 01:00 PM

I can't comment on your particular load, but in general 231 is prefered for the reasons mentioned by Edward429451. I've used both powders and like 231 much better in my .45 (colt). Unique leaves a lot of unburnt flakes in the action. You probably noticed this when you cleaned your pistol.

Hal · March 17, 2002, 07:37 AM

zanthope,
Lee data is almost worthless when it comes to powder charge weights. IIRC, without diggin through my pile of "Junk that comes with stuff" to find the sheet Lee packaged with my dies, don't they list a velocity of 850 fps or something outrageous for that charge?

On the bright side though, I did start with their listed *maximum*, and reduced it a bit to 4.7 gr. under a 230 gr cast lead, and was rewarded with a super accurate load in my Kimber Target model. It's only so-so in my Colt, and it doesn't cycle in the other Kimber.

Johnny Guest · March 17, 2002, 09:55 AM

Same charge, same bullet--MANY thousands with 230 LRN and another few K with 230 FMJ. I never worried with what the exact COL was--Just set my dies using a factory hardball round.

And, I, too, switched over to W-231, mainly for reasons of economy. Had a friend who commercially reloaded and he bough huge quantities of 231 and sold it to me really cheeep.

Combination of Unique with lead bullets with certain types of lubricant yields a messy-looking bore. But a reliable pistol will keep on working for many hundreds of these without cleaning. I believe we're mainly seeing a sooty deposit. This is confirmed when I run a dry patch through the barrrel and almost all of it comes out without brushing, scrubbing or solvent. Not ALL, but most.

Best,
Johnny

tonyz · March 17, 2002, 10:08 AM

Here are some web site with reloading data.

http://www.loadyourown.com/loaddata/sdata.asp

http://www.reloadammo.com/

http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm

All of them show that you are shooting as safe load.

Tony

tonyz · March 17, 2002, 10:12 AM

Here are some web site with some good load data.

http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm

http://www.loadyourown.com/loaddata/default.asp

http://www.reloadammo.com/

Tony

dead i · March 17, 2002, 06:38 PM

Thanks for the replies. Being so very new to this I'm trying to be careful, as you can tell. The reason for my asking about Unique, is a friend who was getting out of loading gave me a few pounds of powder, Unique being one brand. My first actual batch of handloads was with 230 gr FMJ & Bullseye. Fantastic results. Looks like I'll be spending a coupla hours tonight at the bench! Thanks again for the replies.

Johnny Guest · March 18, 2002, 05:31 PM

Truly unique in its versitility. Never loaded shotgun or gallery rifle with it, but lots of people do. I have favorite loads with Unique in - - -

.25 ACP
.380 ACP
9x19 mm
.38 Super
.38 S&W (3 bullets)
.38 Special (4)
.357 mag
.40 auto
10 mm auto
.44 Special (2)
.44 mag (3)
.45 ACP (3)
.45 Auto Rim (2)
.45 Colt (2)
.455 Webley

- - - and probably some others that don't come to mind.

While I wrote earlier that I've loaded many thousands of the 230 RNL with 6.5 U, I'll note that I had cut back to 6.2 gr for the last few thou before going to 231. And, really, 6.0 would probably have been plenty.

Glad for you that you were given the various powders.

Interesting to note that the originally-specified US Army load for .45 ACP was the 230 FMJ with 5.0 gr. Bullseye powder.
[CAUTION--MAY EXCEED CURRENTLY PUBLISHED MAX LOAD. DO NOT USE THIS LOAD WITHOUT CHECKING CURRENT SOURCES!]

Best,
Johnny

Poodleshooter · March 18, 2002, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Interesting to note that the originally-specified US Army load for .45 ACP was the 230 FMJ with 5.0 gr. Bullseye powder.

[CAUTION--MAY EXCEED CURRENTLY PUBLISHED MAX LOAD. DO NOT USE THIS LOAD WITHOUT CHECKING CURRENT SOURCES!]

I have 100 rounds of said load on my load bench. I've worked it up from 4 grs. 4.5 would occasionally fail to lock back the slide on my Glock 30.

Johnny Guest · March 18, 2002, 08:48 PM

I've been loading .45 ACP for some 40 years, and I may be the ONLY old timer who has never loaded a round of it with Bullseye!

I just started out with Unique and stuck with it until recently. I've shot a lot of ammo loaded by OTHERS with BE, but it has mostly been 185 SWC.

Best,
Johnny

Poodleshooter · March 19, 2002, 12:34 PM

Wish I could shoot SWC, but my Glock chokes on it unless I cram 'em in deep! I'm pretty much stuck with 230gr bullets, as that is the only weight I can find non-SWC in around here.
Bullseye is great, but I'm currently using Titegroup. After Titegroup, I'll probably spring for a keg of 231 or Universal Clays. The fast powders are great for economy, but I need a powder to reload from .45 and .38/.357 to .44mag, and bullseye is too erratic in the bigger cases.
Unique is great stuff, but so sooty!

WESHOOT2 · March 21, 2002, 08:44 AM

Perfect, like dirty sooty evil-metering Unique; approximately the EXACT SAME ballistically.

Can be used (like Unique) in most any handgun caliber.

March 16, 2002, 01:00 PM	#4
Frank Iacono Member Join Date: February 25, 2002 Location: vermont Posts: 18	231 I can't comment on your particular load, but in general 231 is prefered for the reasons mentioned by Edward429451. I've used both powders and like 231 much better in my .45 (colt). Unique leaves a lot of unburnt flakes in the action. You probably noticed this when you cleaned your pistol.

March 17, 2002, 09:55 AM	#6
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	What Edward429451 said - - - Same charge, same bullet--MANY thousands with 230 LRN and another few K with 230 FMJ. I never worried with what the exact COL was--Just set my dies using a factory hardball round. And, I, too, switched over to W-231, mainly for reasons of economy. Had a friend who commercially reloaded and he bough huge quantities of 231 and sold it to me really cheeep. Combination of Unique with lead bullets with certain types of lubricant yields a messy-looking bore. But a reliable pistol will keep on working for many hundreds of these without cleaning. I believe we're mainly seeing a sooty deposit. This is confirmed when I run a dry patch through the barrrel and almost all of it comes out without brushing, scrubbing or solvent. Not ALL, but most. Best, Johnny

March 17, 2002, 10:12 AM	#8
tonyz Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Location: Wa Posts: 922	Dead I Here are some web site with some good load data. http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm http://www.loadyourown.com/loaddata/default.asp http://www.reloadammo.com/ Tony

March 18, 2002, 05:31 PM	#10
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Unique is a wonderful powder - - - Truly unique in its versitility. Never loaded shotgun or gallery rifle with it, but lots of people do. I have favorite loads with Unique in - - - .25 ACP .380 ACP 9x19 mm .38 Super .38 S&W (3 bullets) .38 Special (4) .357 mag .40 auto 10 mm auto .44 Special (2) .44 mag (3) .45 ACP (3) .45 Auto Rim (2) .45 Colt (2) .455 Webley - - - and probably some others that don't come to mind. While I wrote earlier that I've loaded many thousands of the 230 RNL with 6.5 U, I'll note that I had cut back to 6.2 gr for the last few thou before going to 231. And, really, 6.0 would probably have been plenty. Glad for you that you were given the various powders. Interesting to note that the originally-specified US Army load for .45 ACP was the 230 FMJ with 5.0 gr. Bullseye powder. [CAUTION--MAY EXCEED CURRENTLY PUBLISHED MAX LOAD. DO NOT USE THIS LOAD WITHOUT CHECKING CURRENT SOURCES!] Best, Johnny

March 18, 2002, 08:48 PM	#12
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Thanks, Poodleshooter - - - I've been loading .45 ACP for some 40 years, and I may be the ONLY old timer who has never loaded a round of it with Bullseye! I just started out with Unique and stuck with it until recently. I've shot a lot of ammo loaded by OTHERS with BE, but it has mostly been 185 SWC. Best, Johnny

March 16, 2002, 09:04 AM	#1
dead i Member Join Date: April 12, 2000 Location: St. Augustine, Fl. USA Posts: 24	problem with LRN Back to my problems with my first attempt at handloading .45 with 230 gr. LRN. My Speer #13 calls for 5.3 gr. Unique set at 1.270". My test dummies failed the "drop round in pistol barrel" test until I got down to 1.235". That is to say the test rounds wouldn't fall out freely when barrel is turned upside down until 1.235". That's when the test round sat in the chamber the same as a factory round height wise. The little nicks in the lead nose I was getting was from me cycling the test round thru the pistol, NOT from the rifling, like I first thought.(I'm such a dummy!) My question is do you think it's safe to use 5.3 gr. at 1.235"? Thanks in advance. Great to be back, thanks to TFL for providing a place to learn these things without getting hurt!

March 16, 2002, 09:38 AM	#2
zanthope Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 258	My Lee manual calls for a MAXIMUM load of Unique of 5 grains, with an OAL minimum of 1.190. Sounds like you need a Lee FCD, too, that will re-shape the LOADED round on the last step.

March 16, 2002, 10:37 AM	#3
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I've loaded thousands of 225 gr LRN at 6.5 gr of Unique at 1.225 OAL, and never had a problem. Switched to WW-231 after awhile, gives better results and a little cleaner burning. The Lyman book says 5.5 to 7.3 gr of Unique for the 225 LRN But dont take my advice! This is just what works for me in my pistols...(Colt.)

March 17, 2002, 07:37 AM	#5
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,564	zanthope, Lee data is almost worthless when it comes to powder charge weights. IIRC, without diggin through my pile of "Junk that comes with stuff" to find the sheet Lee packaged with my dies, don't they list a velocity of 850 fps or something outrageous for that charge? On the bright side though, I did start with their listed maximum, and reduced it a bit to 4.7 gr. under a 230 gr cast lead, and was rewarded with a super accurate load in my Kimber Target model. It's only so-so in my Colt, and it doesn't cycle in the other Kimber.

March 17, 2002, 10:08 AM	#7
tonyz Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Location: Wa Posts: 922	Here are some web site with reloading data. http://www.loadyourown.com/loaddata/sdata.asp http://www.reloadammo.com/ http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm All of them show that you are shooting as safe load. Tony

March 17, 2002, 06:38 PM	#9
dead i Member Join Date: April 12, 2000 Location: St. Augustine, Fl. USA Posts: 24	Thanks for the replies. Being so very new to this I'm trying to be careful, as you can tell. The reason for my asking about Unique, is a friend who was getting out of loading gave me a few pounds of powder, Unique being one brand. My first actual batch of handloads was with 230 gr FMJ & Bullseye. Fantastic results. Looks like I'll be spending a coupla hours tonight at the bench! Thanks again for the replies.

March 19, 2002, 12:34 PM	#13
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	Wish I could shoot SWC, but my Glock chokes on it unless I cram 'em in deep! I'm pretty much stuck with 230gr bullets, as that is the only weight I can find non-SWC in around here. Bullseye is great, but I'm currently using Titegroup. After Titegroup, I'll probably spring for a keg of 231 or Universal Clays. The fast powders are great for economy, but I need a powder to reload from .45 and .38/.357 to .44mag, and bullseye is too erratic in the bigger cases. Unique is great stuff, but so sooty!

March 21, 2002, 08:44 AM	#14
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	DELICIOUS UNIVERSAL CLAYS Perfect, like dirty sooty evil-metering Unique; approximately the EXACT SAME ballistically. Can be used (like Unique) in most any handgun caliber.