hey new here want to identify this 1858 Remington

BigMackington · April 17, 2025, 01:30 AM

1858-remington-identifying-help-v0-nxap4f9qj9ve1.jpg
so trying to figure out if this gun is a replica, reproduction, or Original 1858, For some context this is my grandpa‘s 1858 Remington I believe it is a new army model because the barrel is an 8 inch the weird thing is it’s not 44 caliber. It’s 50 caliber that is really strange but I believe it might’ve just been bored out, on the top of the barrel it says (patented September 14, 1858 E.Remington & sons Ilion New York USA) under the barrel, it says 77619 there’s also a maker mark under the barrel towards the tip that is a Y there is also a marking on the trigger guard itself and that’s an a on the cylinder has markings of an R and a W and a faded H maybe might just be a scratch though there’s an eye on the inside of the frame where the grips are and the serial number on the grips is also 77619 I think on the loading lever itself there is an R and it does have slight rifling on the inside of the barrel… that’s pretty much everything I could find on it just want opinions on it. I can take some photos if needed.

Hawg · April 17, 2025, 03:38 AM

It has the earmarks of an original. The single letters are inspectors stamps. Serial numbers 77619 was made in June of 1864. If it has been bored out to .50 the cylinder walls must be pretty thin and it's lost most of its collector value. If the cylinder were to be replaced it wouldn't be worth any more.

**4V50 Gary** · April 17, 2025, 11:18 AM

While it won't be the same, I'd sleeve the cylinder chambers and the barrrel to restore the original calibre.

Ricklin · April 17, 2025, 03:21 PM

I'm with Gary, that's a high condition piece, shame it got reamed out.

bamaranger · April 18, 2025, 01:27 AM

Of course there's no way of knowing, but why would anybody ream out a percussion .44 revolver to .50? Especially an original! If the cylinders were done as well, the dang thing might not even be safe to shoot, I'd think the walls would be far to thin.

Only thing I can think of is that it was done to match somebody's .50 muzzleloading rifle, so that they could shoot the same dia balls.

Since the damage is done, I'd sleeve it as well.

Jim Watson · April 18, 2025, 06:14 AM

Sleeving a cylinder is a major gunsmithing project. Would you shoot it? Value it more because it is "correct?"

Hawg · April 18, 2025, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamaranger

Of course there's no way of knowing, but why would anybody ream out a percussion .44 revolver to .50? Especially an original! If the cylinders were done as well, the dang thing might not even be safe to shoot, I'd think the walls would be far to thin.

Only thing I can think of is that it was done to match somebody's .50 muzzleloading rifle, so that they could shoot the same dia balls.

Since the damage is done, I'd sleeve it as well.

The only reason I can think of for reaming the barrel and not the cylinder would be for shooting shot.

Ricklin · April 18, 2025, 11:26 AM

Apparently Bubba was alive and well in the 19th century, back then that NMA was just an old gun.

Hawg · April 18, 2025, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricklin

Apparently Bubba was alive and well in the 19th century, back then that NMA was just an old gun.

He was but it could have been done anywhere from 1864 on.

Hellgate · April 18, 2025, 12:54 PM

There were a lot of Remmies converted to 46 rimfire. Might it be a conversion or does it still have the nipples? A photo or three would help.

**Aguila Blanca** · April 18, 2025, 01:33 PM

A photo link was provided in the opening post. Yes, the cylinder still has the nipples; it was not converted to fire metallic cartridges.

bamaranger · April 19, 2025, 01:46 AM

I hadn't considered that only the bore was reamed. My mind simply went to the conclusion the whole gun had been converted to .50. So yes, I could see reaming out the bore, leaving the cylinders .45_" and loading it as some sort of "garden gun" for instance.

Still seems odd.

Hellgate · April 19, 2025, 11:01 PM

They might have tried shooting hollw based soft bullets that swell when fired to seal the bore (like shooting 38 cal hollow based wad cutters in a Colt Navy 36 converted to 38 SPL. The chambers are .357 but the barrel is still .375 but the soft hollow based wadcutter swells enough to get a seal for reasonable accuracy.

Hawg · April 20, 2025, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellgate

They might have tried shooting hollw based soft bullets that swell when fired to seal the bore (like shooting 38 cal hollow based wad cutters in a Colt Navy 36 converted to 38 SPL. The chambers are .357 but the barrel is still .375 but the soft hollow based wadcutter swells enough to get a seal for reasonable accuracy.

Why would they ream the bore to .50 for that? They would work better with the original bore.

April 17, 2025, 01:30 AM	#1
BigMackington Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2025 Posts: 1	hey new here want to identify this 1858 Remington 1858-remington-identifying-help-v0-nxap4f9qj9ve1.jpg so trying to figure out if this gun is a replica, reproduction, or Original 1858, For some context this is my grandpa‘s 1858 Remington I believe it is a new army model because the barrel is an 8 inch the weird thing is it’s not 44 caliber. It’s 50 caliber that is really strange but I believe it might’ve just been bored out, on the top of the barrel it says (patented September 14, 1858 E.Remington & sons Ilion New York USA) under the barrel, it says 77619 there’s also a maker mark under the barrel towards the tip that is a Y there is also a marking on the trigger guard itself and that’s an a on the cylinder has markings of an R and a W and a faded H maybe might just be a scratch though there’s an eye on the inside of the frame where the grips are and the serial number on the grips is also 77619 I think on the loading lever itself there is an R and it does have slight rifling on the inside of the barrel… that’s pretty much everything I could find on it just want opinions on it. I can take some photos if needed.

April 17, 2025, 11:18 AM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,287	While it won't be the same, I'd sleeve the cylinder chambers and the barrrel to restore the original calibre. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 17, 2025, 03:21 PM	#4
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,368	I'm with Gary, that's a high condition piece, shame it got reamed out. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

April 18, 2025, 01:27 AM	#5
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,786	why? Of course there's no way of knowing, but why would anybody ream out a percussion .44 revolver to .50? Especially an original! If the cylinders were done as well, the dang thing might not even be safe to shoot, I'd think the walls would be far to thin. Only thing I can think of is that it was done to match somebody's .50 muzzleloading rifle, so that they could shoot the same dia balls. Since the damage is done, I'd sleeve it as well.

April 18, 2025, 11:26 AM	#8
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,368	Apparently Bubba was alive and well in the 19th century, back then that NMA was just an old gun. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

April 17, 2025, 03:38 AM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,376	It has the earmarks of an original. The single letters are inspectors stamps. Serial numbers 77619 was made in June of 1864. If it has been bored out to .50 the cylinder walls must be pretty thin and it's lost most of its collector value. If the cylinder were to be replaced it wouldn't be worth any more.

April 18, 2025, 06:14 AM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,155	Sleeving a cylinder is a major gunsmithing project. Would you shoot it? Value it more because it is "correct?"

April 18, 2025, 12:54 PM	#10
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 881	There were a lot of Remmies converted to 46 rimfire. Might it be a conversion or does it still have the nipples? A photo or three would help. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

April 18, 2025, 01:33 PM	#11
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 19,033	A photo link was provided in the opening post. Yes, the cylinder still has the nipples; it was not converted to fire metallic cartridges. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

April 19, 2025, 01:46 AM	#12
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,786	shot I hadn't considered that only the bore was reamed. My mind simply went to the conclusion the whole gun had been converted to .50. So yes, I could see reaming out the bore, leaving the cylinders .45_" and loading it as some sort of "garden gun" for instance. Still seems odd.

April 19, 2025, 11:01 PM	#13
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 881	They might have tried shooting hollw based soft bullets that swell when fired to seal the bore (like shooting 38 cal hollow based wad cutters in a Colt Navy 36 converted to 38 SPL. The chambers are .357 but the barrel is still .375 but the soft hollow based wadcutter swells enough to get a seal for reasonable accuracy. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)