Straight Wall Case Annealing

scatterbrain · May 4, 2022, 06:34 PM

Does anyone anneal straight wall cases? I've had .357 Mag cases split from several reloadings and belling of the mouth.

nhyrum · May 4, 2022, 06:36 PM

I haven't, but I'm sure(not 100%) you can. Especially with cases that use a roll crimp I can definitely see them benefiting from it.

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Scorch · May 4, 2022, 06:45 PM

Just anneal the mouth of the case.

nhyrum · May 4, 2022, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorch

Just anneal the mouth of the case.

Yes, this is important. Even on bottle neck, you don't even really want to anneal the shoulder, just the neck. I'd use a small, pencil flame and put a temp indicating paint about halfway down the case to make sure you don't anneal too far down

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**44 AMP** · May 5, 2022, 02:17 PM

Quote:

I've had .357 Mag cases split from several reloadings and belling of the mouth.

How many is "several"???

Metal work hardens, when it gets bent. The more times, and the greater the "working", the harder and more brittle it gets.

dahermit · May 5, 2022, 06:39 PM

Years ago when I was young and foolish, I shot a lot of heavily loaded .44 magnum loads. When the first case mouth showed a split, I would anneal the rest of that lot (50 each as I remember) and the rest of that lot could be shot many more times with heavy loads without splitting. In later years I used only moderate loads (or light loads), and the splitting was less frequent.

It is also notable that excessive flaring and crimping (common with Keith Type bullets), increases the frequency of mouth splits.

In short, lighter loads, only enough flair to seat the bullet and only light crimps will extend case life as well as effect the rate of case-mouth splitting.

jetinteriorguy · May 6, 2022, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scatterbrain

Does anyone anneal straight wall cases? I've had .357 Mag cases split from several reloadings and belling of the mouth.

Try a Lee collet style crimping die, much easier on the brass. Couple that with a minimal flair and you’ll double case life.

scatterbrain · May 6, 2022, 02:00 PM

44 Amp, several is an unknown quantity. In a lull at the range one day I was talking to a retired quality control lab manager for a large chemical company about the things to improve quality of reloads, or SD. His number one thing was case management, I knew then that I was doomed.

**44 AMP** · May 6, 2022, 02:57 PM

I'm kinda in that same boat. For most of the half century+ I've been reloading my tracking of case load cycles went, 1, 2, ....3....several...

And, I'm also one of those guys who has never annealed anything. Yes, I've had a few cases crack, but compared to the tens of thousands of rounds I've loaded (conservative guess) its only been a relative handful.

Some folks swear by it, for me, it was never worth the trouble.

jetinteriorguy · May 6, 2022, 06:28 PM

As far as extending case life I’m sure annealing helps, but the biggest benefit I’ve noticed is how uniform it feels when seating bullets. It’s just a feel thing of course but to me it’s noticeable.

scatterbrain · May 7, 2022, 10:34 AM

I've been annealing for bottle neck cases with an Annie for several years and have a good adjustable setup for controlling the depth of heat. I do anneal to the top of the taper on the case body, I've had 243 cases crack around the top and that stopped it. My interest in annealing was to prolong case life and make mixed batches more uniform. My first adventures with a torch using every method I could find provided no uniform bullet seating effort and inconsistent case sizing. I spend a lot of time measuring each step in the case prep to see what my dies/method is doing and that's where the Annie proved to be worth the money. The runout, the case to datum length, the bullet seating effort, and the SDs have greatly improved, and the targets are sub 1/2 MOA with hunting rifles. Now, if I could only improve on case management.

9MMand223only · May 9, 2022, 06:14 PM

I think very little "Bell" is needed here. "barely" bell it. If you do too large a bell, your brass is dead. Annealing is not needed on straight wall generally. I can do 10+ reloads no anneal, so can most people. Straight wall cases very durable. The key is tiny bell. Tiny

nhyrum · May 9, 2022, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9MMand223only

I think very little "Bell" is needed here. "barely" bell it. If you do too large a bell, your brass is dead. Annealing is not needed on straight wall generally. I can do 10+ reloads no anneal, so can most people. Straight wall cases very durable. The key is tiny bell. Tiny

Little bell, and no more crimp than is actually needed. I feel most people severely over crimp. I've seen a lot of people crimp 44 Magnum probably twice as hard as I crimp my 454 casull, and I've tested the same round through two times in the cylinder (10 shots) with no bullet movement. There really is no need for a massive crimp

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**44 AMP** · May 10, 2022, 03:37 PM

Quote:

There really is no need for a massive crimp

How much crimp is enough? This is one of the "timeless" questions, and the answer is dependent on the specific situation.

Your "two times around the cylinder no movement" is a good test, but remember, it is specific to your gun and load, and those guns very similar to yours.

With revolvers, the big factors are the gun itself (weight), bullet weight, and the recoil the load produces.

I have fired uncrimped .38s from an N frame with no bullet creep. Same loads from a Detective special had some bullet creep, but not a lot.

Heavier loads, bigger heavier bullets (.44/.45 vs. .38) the effect is greater and crimp is needed. How much is enough and not too much you'll need to find out by testing.

OR use a moderate amount of crimp, on everything, which may be more than needed in some guns, and just enough in others. And, of course, if you do have a situation where its not enough, use more crimp until testing shows its enough.

A somewhat similar, but reversed situation happens in tube magazine rifles. There you need crimp not to keep the bullet from being pulled by recoil inertia the way a revolver does, but to keep it from being pushed back into the case from spring tension and the weight of the rounds ahead of it in the tube, during recoil and the feeding cycle.

scatterbrain · May 10, 2022, 04:25 PM

I'm ready to load 300 grain Hornady's in a 444P with a tube mag. 444 Marlin cases don't grow on trees around here and I'm interested in doing the best I can. Hence the interest in annealing.

Paul B. · May 10, 2022, 04:40 PM

I don't bother on handgun brass but I do anneal on cases like the 45-70. I also anneal all bottleneck cases as needed. Usually, after the fifth reload.
Paul B.

May 4, 2022, 06:34 PM	#1
scatterbrain Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2015 Posts: 178	Straight Wall Case Annealing Does anyone anneal straight wall cases? I've had .357 Mag cases split from several reloadings and belling of the mouth.

May 4, 2022, 06:45 PM	#3
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,249	Just anneal the mouth of the case. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

May 6, 2022, 02:57 PM	#9
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,479	I'm kinda in that same boat. For most of the half century+ I've been reloading my tracking of case load cycles went, 1, 2, ....3....several... And, I'm also one of those guys who has never annealed anything. Yes, I've had a few cases crack, but compared to the tens of thousands of rounds I've loaded (conservative guess) its only been a relative handful. Some folks swear by it, for me, it was never worth the trouble. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 10, 2022, 04:40 PM	#16
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,932	I don't bother on handgun brass but I do anneal on cases like the 45-70. I also anneal all bottleneck cases as needed. Usually, after the fifth reload. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

May 4, 2022, 06:36 PM	#2
nhyrum Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2016 Posts: 598	I haven't, but I'm sure(not 100%) you can. Especially with cases that use a roll crimp I can definitely see them benefiting from it. Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

May 5, 2022, 06:39 PM	#6
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Years ago when I was young and foolish, I shot a lot of heavily loaded .44 magnum loads. When the first case mouth showed a split, I would anneal the rest of that lot (50 each as I remember) and the rest of that lot could be shot many more times with heavy loads without splitting. In later years I used only moderate loads (or light loads), and the splitting was less frequent. It is also notable that excessive flaring and crimping (common with Keith Type bullets), increases the frequency of mouth splits. In short, lighter loads, only enough flair to seat the bullet and only light crimps will extend case life as well as effect the rate of case-mouth splitting.

May 6, 2022, 02:00 PM	#8
scatterbrain Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2015 Posts: 178	44 Amp, several is an unknown quantity. In a lull at the range one day I was talking to a retired quality control lab manager for a large chemical company about the things to improve quality of reloads, or SD. His number one thing was case management, I knew then that I was doomed.

May 6, 2022, 06:28 PM	#10
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,476	As far as extending case life I’m sure annealing helps, but the biggest benefit I’ve noticed is how uniform it feels when seating bullets. It’s just a feel thing of course but to me it’s noticeable.

May 7, 2022, 10:34 AM	#11
scatterbrain Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2015 Posts: 178	I've been annealing for bottle neck cases with an Annie for several years and have a good adjustable setup for controlling the depth of heat. I do anneal to the top of the taper on the case body, I've had 243 cases crack around the top and that stopped it. My interest in annealing was to prolong case life and make mixed batches more uniform. My first adventures with a torch using every method I could find provided no uniform bullet seating effort and inconsistent case sizing. I spend a lot of time measuring each step in the case prep to see what my dies/method is doing and that's where the Annie proved to be worth the money. The runout, the case to datum length, the bullet seating effort, and the SDs have greatly improved, and the targets are sub 1/2 MOA with hunting rifles. Now, if I could only improve on case management.

May 9, 2022, 06:14 PM	#12
9MMand223only Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2014 Posts: 298	I think very little "Bell" is needed here. "barely" bell it. If you do too large a bell, your brass is dead. Annealing is not needed on straight wall generally. I can do 10+ reloads no anneal, so can most people. Straight wall cases very durable. The key is tiny bell. Tiny

May 10, 2022, 04:25 PM	#15
scatterbrain Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2015 Posts: 178	I'm ready to load 300 grain Hornady's in a 444P with a tube mag. 444 Marlin cases don't grow on trees around here and I'm interested in doing the best I can. Hence the interest in annealing.