Forward assist yes or no ?

Metal god · November 23, 2021, 07:32 PM

Anyone see this , he doesn't use the correct term/wording but ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnw0R6lhFm0

So what do all of you that said the forward assist is useless say now ?

Glad all mine have them . Not sure how many followed the trial or have seen the video/photos . When Mr Hubert tries to take Kyles gun I'm thinking maybe some clothing or something got hung up and slowed the BCG from fully closing.

rickyrick · November 23, 2021, 07:46 PM

I haven’t yet to need one as a civilian. I have one upper without it.

As a range toy, if it doesn’t go into battery on its own, I will stop and investigate the issue.

I personally don’t agree with the practice of “sneaking” a round into the chamber of an auto loader. I let all my semiautos chamber with the full force of the action as designed.

I have them as a consequence of the upper coming with them.

But I’m not knocking anyone for utilizing one to be certain.

I must add, I don’t own ARs as defensive weapons, only for fun... I carry a pistol.

Metal god · November 23, 2021, 07:57 PM

Quote:

As a range toy, if it doesn’t go into battery on its own, I will stop and investigate the issue.

Yep I agree , I'd never just pound away on the forward assist if just plinking at the range . STOP and investigate why it didn't go into battery . Kyle might not be here today had he not looked down and noticed his bolt was not in full battery . We are talking seconds from him firing at Hubert and then Gaige and in between that time he looked down to notice his firearm would not fire the next time he needed to pulled the trigger which was going to be seconds later , . wow . It actually explains why Gaige lunged at him after first holding his hands up . I bet he really thought the gun was jammed and had time to get it or subdue Kyle . So many lessons to learn from that night .

EDIT

I just watched the video of Hubert trying to take the gun . Hubert has his hand on the right side of the receivers . If grabbing hard enough to pull the gun away , That could easily obstruct the ejection of the round fired and cause the BCG to slow and fail to go into full battery .

WARNING GRAFIC CONTENT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYjG4uequWQ

Americanpatriot · November 23, 2021, 07:58 PM

I say yes to forward assist

rickyrick · November 23, 2021, 07:59 PM

I don’t know why my phone put “enemy” in the sentence, but I fixed it.

stagpanther · November 23, 2021, 08:43 PM

Quote:

I just watched the video of Hubert trying to take the gun . Hubert has his hand on the right side of the receivers . If grabbing hard enough to pull the gun away , That could easily obstruct the ejection of the round fired and cause the BCG to slow and fail to go into full battery .

That Huber guy had a lot of gall to not want to get blasted at point blank range--very inconsiderate of him. That Tucker Carlson is a POS AFAIC.

Metal god · November 23, 2021, 09:44 PM

Quote:

That Huber guy had a lot of gall to not want to get blasted at point blank range--very inconsiderate of him. That Tucker Carlson is a POS AFAIC.

Yes but what do you think of having a forward assist on your rifle ? Over the years it seems more and more people on these forums have leaned towards saying they are not needed . Now we have a real world situation where the forward assist actually assisted in saving someones life . It’s now been proven it can be needed and could actually happen to general public not in jungle combat guy .

I was wondering if this has changed the mind of “ you don’t need no stinking forward assist” guy ? I had somewhat bought into that but not anymore. I will not even consider getting a slick sided receiver.

rickyrick · November 23, 2021, 10:04 PM

I just don’t think that I’d ever be in a life or limb situation with an AR.
I won’t be carrying one around as a defensive weapon. If I ever find myself needing one of my ARs to defend myself or property, things would have gotten really bad.

I have had a riot on my street that approached my home, I stayed inside and avoided conflict... then made the decision not long after to return to Texas lol.
Basically I avoid situations as much as possible that I’d need a gun... I carry a pistol wherever I’m allowed, however.

If I planned on entering a scenario with an AR15, I might change my opinion of the forward assist.
In the Kyle R. Situation, his sling played a bigger role and was what allowed him to retain the weapon.

Crankylove · November 23, 2021, 10:06 PM

I have a ‘73 Colt SP1 that has never needed one.

Have two AR’s that were built (.223 and .338 Federal) that only have the bolt assist installed to plug the hole.

I’ve never been fond of the idea of battering a round into the chamber that doesn't want to go. It’s just as easy to eject and feed a fresh round in.

I don’t like them, or use them on the guns that have them, but that’s just me. Some people see value in them, and if it works for them, that’s great.

**44 AMP** · November 23, 2021, 11:39 PM

hasn't changed my mind one bit. I've been cussin' at them or about them since 1975.

Metal god · November 24, 2021, 02:41 AM

Quote:

I’ve never been fond of the idea of battering a round into the chamber that doesn't want to go. It’s just as easy to eject and feed a fresh round in.

I'd agree at the range that would be just fine but Kyle wasn't just plinking at the range . He had about 3.5sec between firing at Mr Hubert and then Gaige . Take a 1/3 off that total time for him to look down and notice the BCG out of battery and he's left with just a tad over 2sec to clear the "jam" . This is to assume his extractor has actually snapped into the cases extractor groove Which it likely did not . If it hasn't when he tries to extract the previous round to clear the jam and charge the rifle the previous round that was stripped from the mag will stay up in the chamber and cause a double feed jam at best . He definitely didn't have enough time to drop the mag , clear everything then reinsert the mag and charge the firearm in the 2sec he had to live or die .

That said this all assumes Kyle was telling the truth which I'm starting to see some real credibility issues with him but that's not for this thread . Assuming he did actually need to use his forward assist to chamber the next round . I see that as a true testimony of the forward assist and why it's there .

Hawg · November 24, 2021, 07:36 AM

I don't care if it has one or not. I'm not likely to put myself in the same situation as Kyle. If I did get in the same situation I doubt I'd remember I had one.

Joe-ker · November 24, 2021, 10:53 AM

I like to have options. Even if their actual use is questionable, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. It’s only a few ounces.

Double Naught Spy · November 24, 2021, 01:28 PM

I like the forward assist. They don't cause me any problems and as a hunter, they can be quite useful for chambering a round quietly without spooking the prey.

pete2 · November 24, 2021, 07:20 PM

It's probably useless for civilian use. In combat where a hundred or so rounds might be fired it could be useful. Never used it it Nam but most I ever fired at one sitting was about 40 rounds.

Double Naught Spy · November 24, 2021, 09:20 PM

Quote:

It's probably useless for civilian use.

Just the post before yours I explained how I used it (as a civilian), LOL.

Screwball · November 24, 2021, 09:31 PM

On my 9mm AR pistol… I removed it. Mainly because it will be suppressed, and is a Stern upper. There was one of those machine gun meltdowns on YouTube… and it was stopped because the forward assist broke off during. No notches on the bolt… simple decision.

Shy of that, I really don’t mind the forward assist. It is on most of my ARs, but it really is nice when you get into .22 ARs. I have a .22 Spikes upper, with CMMG assembly; that adapter and the anti-jam charging handle are musts. Rimfire just tends to be dirty. But shy of that, I really don’t see an effective use for the forward assist… and if you needed to nudge the bolt home, there is the ejection port cut on the carrier which would work fine for it. For Rittenhouse, glad it worked for him… but ideally it should have been all the way home from Jump Street.

Bad round in the chamber, cycle it out.

eflyguy · November 24, 2021, 10:10 PM

I never really noticed my AR didn't have one until my daughter borrowed her uncle's for a match and asked me what it was for.

I'll try to remember to ask her opinion, as they dragged their rifles thru the dirt at BCT.

rickyrick · November 24, 2021, 10:39 PM

The “T” in the old Army stoppage drill, SPORTS was for “Tap the forward assist”

I’m not really knocking anyone that uses it when sneaking a round into the chamber when hunting, I just don’t understand it because my rifles are chambered long before quiet time.

I believe semiautos should be cambered with the full force of the action. I’ve seen where people ride the bolt forward then the get the dreaded “click”

Metal god · November 24, 2021, 10:55 PM

Quote:

It’s probably useless for civilian use

Lol even with the OP having a video descibing a civilian using one to save his life ? This whole thing makes me think of having a fire extinguisher in the kitchen or garage . I’ve had those in both places for 50 years and have never needed one . Actuall have had to replace them twice over the years and still have never used them . And yet I’d never think of not having them at the ready .

rickyrick · November 24, 2021, 11:05 PM

I think it all depends on intended use of the gun, many AR owners wouldn’t use them for anything other than sport.
If I were a tactical-rolling-around on the ground type person, it might be a needed option for me.

Crankylove · November 25, 2021, 12:00 AM

Quote:

I'd agree at the range that would be just fine but Kyle wasn't just plinking at the range . He had about 3.5sec between firing at Mr Hubert and then Gaige . Take a 1/3 off that total time for him to look down and notice the BCG out of battery and he's left with just a tad over 2sec to clear the "jam" . This is to assume his extractor has actually snapped into the cases extractor groove Which it likely did not . If it hasn't when he tries to extract the previous round to clear the jam and charge the rifle the previous round that was stripped from the mag will stay up in the chamber and cause a double feed jam at best . He definitely didn't have enough time to drop the mag , clear everything then reinsert the mag and charge the firearm in the 2sec he had to live or die .

That said this all assumes Kyle was telling the truth which I'm starting to see some real credibility issues with him but that's not for this thread . Assuming he did actually need to use his forward assist to chamber the next round . I see that as a true testimony of the forward assist and why it's there .

Like I said, I don’t like or use them. Doesn’t mean my opinion is the only correct one, or that it’s correct at all, or that anybody that does like and use them is wrong. If you want one, if you see value in having it, or just think it looks cool, nothing wrong with that.

eflyguy · November 25, 2021, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eflyguy

I'll try to remember to ask her opinion, as they dragged their rifles thru the dirt at BCT.

Well, I asked, and a friend she made at AIT who is visiting was over there as well.

During the marksmanship qualification, the only issues they had (both of them) were from magazines. Apparently the rifles were relatively new but the magazines appeared to be old, and were certainly beat up. Given that more than half the kids had never even held a weapon prior to Basic, that's not surprising. Just why buy all new rifles and not new magazines?

rickyrick · November 25, 2021, 01:08 AM

In BCT, or AIT

The rifles are constantly cleaned and at no time are they fired with live ammunition while dirty.
Actually combat may vary. Even with blanks and adapter they are fairly reliable.

The problems I’ve seen in training is the practice of completely drenching them with CLP in spray bottles... those seemed to jam more from my perspective.

bamaranger · November 25, 2021, 03:40 AM

Seems as if I recall that the original designs did not include a forward assist. What I have seen frequently with casual users of the AR is folks dorking with the FA after experiencing some type of failure. The FA is viewed as some sort of "jam fixer".

I've taken two carbine classes, one with Morrigan Consulting and the other well done by a TN SO. Neither set of instructors did commented favorably on the FA. Bill Jeans with Morrigan despised the thing. The only folks I've seen who routinely use the device are former military, and all "tap" the gadget after chambering a round. I've never utilized the device in any of my shooting.

At one point I was considering an lightweight AR rifle on 6.5 Grendel and the upper was NOT going to have an FA.

November 23, 2021, 07:32 PM	#1
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 7,135	Forward assist yes or no ? Anyone see this , he doesn't use the correct term/wording but .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnw0R6lhFm0 So what do all of you that said the forward assist is useless say now ? Glad all mine have them . Not sure how many followed the trial or have seen the video/photos . When Mr Hubert tries to take Kyles gun I'm thinking maybe some clothing or something got hung up and slowed the BCG from fully closing. __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; November 23, 2021 at 07:40 PM.

November 23, 2021, 07:46 PM	#2
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,388	I haven’t yet to need one as a civilian. I have one upper without it. As a range toy, if it doesn’t go into battery on its own, I will stop and investigate the issue. I personally don’t agree with the practice of “sneaking” a round into the chamber of an auto loader. I let all my semiautos chamber with the full force of the action as designed. I have them as a consequence of the upper coming with them. But I’m not knocking anyone for utilizing one to be certain. I must add, I don’t own ARs as defensive weapons, only for fun... I carry a pistol. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!! Last edited by rickyrick; November 23, 2021 at 07:59 PM.

November 23, 2021, 07:59 PM	#5
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,388	I don’t know why my phone put “enemy” in the sentence, but I fixed it. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

November 23, 2021, 10:04 PM	#8
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,388	I just don’t think that I’d ever be in a life or limb situation with an AR. I won’t be carrying one around as a defensive weapon. If I ever find myself needing one of my ARs to defend myself or property, things would have gotten really bad. I have had a riot on my street that approached my home, I stayed inside and avoided conflict... then made the decision not long after to return to Texas lol. Basically I avoid situations as much as possible that I’d need a gun... I carry a pistol wherever I’m allowed, however. If I planned on entering a scenario with an AR15, I might change my opinion of the forward assist. In the Kyle R. Situation, his sling played a bigger role and was what allowed him to retain the weapon. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

November 23, 2021, 10:06 PM	#9
Crankylove Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2008 Location: 4B ID Posts: 1,770	I have a ‘73 Colt SP1 that has never needed one. Have two AR’s that were built (.223 and .338 Federal) that only have the bolt assist installed to plug the hole. I’ve never been fond of the idea of battering a round into the chamber that doesn't want to go. It’s just as easy to eject and feed a fresh round in. I don’t like them, or use them on the guns that have them, but that’s just me. Some people see value in them, and if it works for them, that’s great. __________________ The answer to 1984 is 1776

November 23, 2021, 07:58 PM	#4
Americanpatriot Member Join Date: June 11, 2017 Posts: 34	I say yes to forward assist

November 23, 2021, 11:39 PM	#10
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,496	hasn't changed my mind one bit. I've been cussin' at them or about them since 1975. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 24, 2021, 07:36 AM	#12
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,380	I don't care if it has one or not. I'm not likely to put myself in the same situation as Kyle. If I did get in the same situation I doubt I'd remember I had one.

November 24, 2021, 10:53 AM	#13
Joe-ker Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2016 Location: North Iowa Posts: 247	I like to have options. Even if their actual use is questionable, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. It’s only a few ounces. __________________ From my cold dead hands.....

November 24, 2021, 01:28 PM	#14
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,793	I like the forward assist. They don't cause me any problems and as a hunter, they can be quite useful for chambering a round quietly without spooking the prey. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

November 24, 2021, 07:20 PM	#15
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,610	It's probably useless for civilian use. In combat where a hundred or so rounds might be fired it could be useful. Never used it it Nam but most I ever fired at one sitting was about 40 rounds.

November 24, 2021, 09:31 PM	#17
Screwball Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2012 Location: ME Posts: 824	On my 9mm AR pistol… I removed it. Mainly because it will be suppressed, and is a Stern upper. There was one of those machine gun meltdowns on YouTube… and it was stopped because the forward assist broke off during. No notches on the bolt… simple decision. Shy of that, I really don’t mind the forward assist. It is on most of my ARs, but it really is nice when you get into .22 ARs. I have a .22 Spikes upper, with CMMG assembly; that adapter and the anti-jam charging handle are musts. Rimfire just tends to be dirty. But shy of that, I really don’t see an effective use for the forward assist… and if you needed to nudge the bolt home, there is the ejection port cut on the carrier which would work fine for it. For Rittenhouse, glad it worked for him… but ideally it should have been all the way home from Jump Street. Bad round in the chamber, cycle it out.

November 24, 2021, 10:10 PM	#18
eflyguy Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2021 Posts: 335	I never really noticed my AR didn't have one until my daughter borrowed her uncle's for a match and asked me what it was for. I'll try to remember to ask her opinion, as they dragged their rifles thru the dirt at BCT.

November 24, 2021, 10:39 PM	#19
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,388	The “T” in the old Army stoppage drill, SPORTS was for “Tap the forward assist” I’m not really knocking anyone that uses it when sneaking a round into the chamber when hunting, I just don’t understand it because my rifles are chambered long before quiet time. I believe semiautos should be cambered with the full force of the action. I’ve seen where people ride the bolt forward then the get the dreaded “click” __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

November 24, 2021, 11:05 PM	#21
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,388	I think it all depends on intended use of the gun, many AR owners wouldn’t use them for anything other than sport. If I were a tactical-rolling-around on the ground type person, it might be a needed option for me. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

November 25, 2021, 01:08 AM	#24
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,388	In BCT, or AIT The rifles are constantly cleaned and at no time are they fired with live ammunition while dirty. Actually combat may vary. Even with blanks and adapter they are fairly reliable. The problems I’ve seen in training is the practice of completely drenching them with CLP in spray bottles... those seemed to jam more from my perspective. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

November 25, 2021, 03:40 AM	#25
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,803	the "jam" fixer Seems as if I recall that the original designs did not include a forward assist. What I have seen frequently with casual users of the AR is folks dorking with the FA after experiencing some type of failure. The FA is viewed as some sort of "jam fixer". I've taken two carbine classes, one with Morrigan Consulting and the other well done by a TN SO. Neither set of instructors did commented favorably on the FA. Bill Jeans with Morrigan despised the thing. The only folks I've seen who routinely use the device are former military, and all "tap" the gadget after chambering a round. I've never utilized the device in any of my shooting. At one point I was considering an lightweight AR rifle on 6.5 Grendel and the upper was NOT going to have an FA.