How hot of load for New Vaquero, 45 colt - Page 2

Berserker · May 24, 2017, 08:58 AM

Some people shoot more than paper, and are willing to.put up with recoil and such, for their task.

Real Gun · May 24, 2017, 10:25 AM

Quote:

I could never see the logic in going beyond standard loads in any gun when handloading.

There is a special logic applied to 45 Colt, because the standard pressure range is for the least common denominator of older guns. Newer, sturdier guns with modern metallurgy can be in a class by themselves.

rclark · May 24, 2017, 10:41 AM

Just some reading material.

Brian Pearce .45 Colt Article

Another article on .45 Colt

Because the New Vaquero/Flattop can shoot .45 ACP, it is generally understood that the New Vaquero can handle 23K loads..... BUT not Ruger Only Loads. I personally shoot loads in the 900-1000fps range with 250ish grain bullets, so well within the 23K limit. More than enough for what I do with a .45 Colt revolver.

**44 AMP** · May 24, 2017, 01:43 PM

Quote:

If one has a .45 Colt and finds the performance of standard loads unacceptable, it would seem logical to buy a .454 Casull.
But then, that just might make too much sense.

Sure, it makes sense, TODAY. I would remind you that when the Ruger only .45 Colt loads were being developed and becoming popular, the .454 Casull existed only as Dick Casull's personal prototypes. And it didn't become a production item until many years later.

ShootistPRS · May 24, 2017, 03:49 PM

My Sierra Manual has a "single shot" pistol section which includes the 45 Colt. It mentions several revolvers that are capable of using the data which was tested in a Contender.My Speer manual #13 has a "Ruger and Contender" section under the 45 Colt data and my Hornady 3rd edition has a section for Ruger and Contender listed with the 45 Colt data.

To say the information doesn't exist is untrue. To recommend this data for a New Vaquero would be a mistake.

Quote:

The New Vaquero has cylinder walls that are thinner than those on the .45 Blackhawks and original Vaqueros, and while stronger than the Colt SAA, the New Vaquero should not be used with the heavy loads that are listed as "Ruger Only" in some hand loading manuals.

Quoted from here.

The New Vaquero cylinder is shorter and thinner walled than the old Vaquero and the frame is smaller. This gun was designed and engineered for the SASS Cowboy Action competitions. This is why the weight was dropped and the frame is smaller. The smaller frame and shorter slimmer cylinder precludes the use of the "Ruger Only" loads.

Paul B. · May 24, 2017, 06:22 PM

"I could never see the logic in going beyond standard loads in any gun when handloading. In contrast to hot loading, it would seem to be logical (less wear and tear on the gun, brass, and shooter not to mention more tolerable recoil), to start with the "suggested starting loads" in the manuals and then progress to small incremental increases in powder until a "sweet spot", accuracy wise is obtained while never going above listed maximums...just as the handloading manuals state. If one has a .45 Colt and finds the performance of standard loads unacceptable, it would seem logical to buy a .454 Casull.
But then, that just might make too much sense."

No, not really. First off, I believe the New Vaquero uses the same basic frame as the original .44 Magnum and .45 LC. That gun was considered strong enough for the full power .44 Mag. but recoil could get a tad uncomfortable. The .45LC could also handle .44 Mag. level loads should one wish to do so. I never loaded mine (I have both) due to the discomfort but they did handle heavy load quite well.
Then Ruger dropped the standard Blackhawk for the much heavier New Model Blackhawks which were stronger and handled recoil much better. There were some old model super Blackhawks prior to the new model which also were better. I have samples of those as well.
FRankly, and this is just my not very humble opinion, what I would do with a new model vaquero is work up a load similar to Skeeter Skelton's pet load for the .44 Spl. which is safe even in the Colt single action and clones. In the ,44, 7.5 gr. of Unique for about 950 FPS, give or take. Some take it a hair higher but that's where I quite. Do the same for the .45 LC and enjoy. It might take maybe 8.5 gr. with a 250/255 gr. cast bullet but it would be powerful enough for just about any use you might think of including hunting.
If you want more spit & git go to the full size New Model Super Blackhawk.
Gun writer Ross Seyfried once recommended a Ruger Bisley 5.5" barrel as a very useful all round heavy game gun in .45 LC. It handles .44 Magnum level loads with ease and is built like a tank. Weighs about as much as one too.

So to the OP, my suggestions would be to work up a load in the 950 to 1000 range. Use a good 250/250 cast lead bullet and enjoy life. For the record, I live fairly close to a mountain range that has Black Bear and Mountain Lions. Some of the hiking trails are quite popular with the college crowd and when I hike thee, either an S&W .44 Spl. with Skeeter's load, or a 4.5" Ruger Super Blackhawk with full power Mag. loads is usually with me. When I pack the .45 Ruger Bisley, it's in a shoulder rig and is loaded to the max. Frankly, I would be just as well armed with a Colt single action and a Skeeter Skelton lever handload. Easy on me and easy on the gun. Your choice.

Regarding, "But then, that just might make too much sense."
Not to me, but then I've been doing the handgun scene since 1954. I had to kill a Black Bear with a hot loaded .38 Spl. in 1959 to near .357 mag. specs. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Paul B.

rclark · May 24, 2017, 09:08 PM

Quote:

First off, I believe the New Vaquero uses the same basic frame as the original .44 Magnum and .45 LC.

Not True. The New Vaquero is on the medium frame. The original Vaquero was on the large frame same as the .44 Magnum SBH and .45 Colt BH.

Paladin7 · May 26, 2017, 02:35 PM

More information is required for the best advice...

Not clear on why you want to hot rod a 45 LC??? If you want something hotter, get a 44 Magnum or higher pressure round.

Your max load is what you work up to, starting from the lowest charge weight to the highest before you see signs of over pressure. That is the hottest load your gun can handle safely with that case, primer, powder and bullet combination.

Also, a big heavy pistol bullet like the 45 LC moving at 800 fps +/-, is a lot more capable vs most animals than many people realize.

Real Gun · May 26, 2017, 05:42 PM

Not "hotrodding" here per se. The OP's load in question is within the load range of standard pressure, although it is the max. I shoot it in a NM Blackhawk, but I believe my New Vaquero would handle it fine. However, for real zip in the Vaquero, I like the Power Pistol loads.

disseminator · May 28, 2017, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Not True. The New Vaquero is on the medium frame. The original Vaquero was on the large frame same as the .44 Magnum SBH and .45 Colt BH.

I think he was looking back a few more years to the original Ruger 44 magnum blackhawk which was smaller than the modern SBH by quite a bit.

I own the "original" Vaquero and I have shot the full power loads in it up to the 300 grain XTP around 1200 fps. It's a handful to say the least. While it can handle the pressures, I personally think the old Vaquero is too light to shoot the heavy loads comfortably. If you compare it side by side to a SBH the difference becomes quite obvious.

It makes a lot of sense that the New Vaquero should be good up to 23,000 psi which is of course the pressure for 45 Auto +P that the convertible guns are rated to shoot.

I think that is a good level even for the old Vaquero and I have since stopped loading full power Colt loads. ( I have a 460 XVR for that )

May 24, 2017, 10:41 AM	#28
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,650	Just some reading material. Brian Pearce .45 Colt Article Another article on .45 Colt Because the New Vaquero/Flattop can shoot .45 ACP, it is generally understood that the New Vaquero can handle 23K loads..... BUT not Ruger Only Loads. I personally shoot loads in the 900-1000fps range with 250ish grain bullets, so well within the 23K limit. More than enough for what I do with a .45 Colt revolver. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

May 24, 2017, 06:22 PM	#31
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,932	"I could never see the logic in going beyond standard loads in any gun when handloading. In contrast to hot loading, it would seem to be logical (less wear and tear on the gun, brass, and shooter not to mention more tolerable recoil), to start with the "suggested starting loads" in the manuals and then progress to small incremental increases in powder until a "sweet spot", accuracy wise is obtained while never going above listed maximums...just as the handloading manuals state. If one has a .45 Colt and finds the performance of standard loads unacceptable, it would seem logical to buy a .454 Casull. But then, that just might make too much sense." No, not really. First off, I believe the New Vaquero uses the same basic frame as the original .44 Magnum and .45 LC. That gun was considered strong enough for the full power .44 Mag. but recoil could get a tad uncomfortable. The .45LC could also handle .44 Mag. level loads should one wish to do so. I never loaded mine (I have both) due to the discomfort but they did handle heavy load quite well. Then Ruger dropped the standard Blackhawk for the much heavier New Model Blackhawks which were stronger and handled recoil much better. There were some old model super Blackhawks prior to the new model which also were better. I have samples of those as well. FRankly, and this is just my not very humble opinion, what I would do with a new model vaquero is work up a load similar to Skeeter Skelton's pet load for the .44 Spl. which is safe even in the Colt single action and clones. In the ,44, 7.5 gr. of Unique for about 950 FPS, give or take. Some take it a hair higher but that's where I quite. Do the same for the .45 LC and enjoy. It might take maybe 8.5 gr. with a 250/255 gr. cast bullet but it would be powerful enough for just about any use you might think of including hunting. If you want more spit & git go to the full size New Model Super Blackhawk. Gun writer Ross Seyfried once recommended a Ruger Bisley 5.5" barrel as a very useful all round heavy game gun in .45 LC. It handles .44 Magnum level loads with ease and is built like a tank. Weighs about as much as one too. So to the OP, my suggestions would be to work up a load in the 950 to 1000 range. Use a good 250/250 cast lead bullet and enjoy life. For the record, I live fairly close to a mountain range that has Black Bear and Mountain Lions. Some of the hiking trails are quite popular with the college crowd and when I hike thee, either an S&W .44 Spl. with Skeeter's load, or a 4.5" Ruger Super Blackhawk with full power Mag. loads is usually with me. When I pack the .45 Ruger Bisley, it's in a shoulder rig and is loaded to the max. Frankly, I would be just as well armed with a Colt single action and a Skeeter Skelton lever handload. Easy on me and easy on the gun. Your choice. Regarding, "But then, that just might make too much sense." Not to me, but then I've been doing the handgun scene since 1954. I had to kill a Black Bear with a hot loaded .38 Spl. in 1959 to near .357 mag. specs. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION! Last edited by Paul B.; May 24, 2017 at 06:27 PM.

May 26, 2017, 05:42 PM	#34
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	Not "hotrodding" here per se. The OP's load in question is within the load range of standard pressure, although it is the max. I shoot it in a NM Blackhawk, but I believe my New Vaquero would handle it fine. However, for real zip in the Vaquero, I like the Power Pistol loads. __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

May 24, 2017, 08:58 AM	#26
Berserker Junior member Join Date: April 6, 2015 Location: WI & UP Posts: 284	Some people shoot more than paper, and are willing to.put up with recoil and such, for their task.

May 26, 2017, 02:35 PM	#33
Paladin7 Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2002 Posts: 109	More information is required for the best advice... Not clear on why you want to hot rod a 45 LC??? If you want something hotter, get a 44 Magnum or higher pressure round. Your max load is what you work up to, starting from the lowest charge weight to the highest before you see signs of over pressure. That is the hottest load your gun can handle safely with that case, primer, powder and bullet combination. Also, a big heavy pistol bullet like the 45 LC moving at 800 fps +/-, is a lot more capable vs most animals than many people realize.