Smokeless Powder and other supply costs

Cavalryjoe · May 26, 2017, 01:26 PM

What is a reasonable price to pay for old smokeless powder such as:

Alcan 7
S&W AL-7

Hercules Herco smokeless Shotgun Powder

Dupont smokeless shotgun powder

Hercules Unique smokeless rifle, pistol, shotgun powder

ShootistPRS · May 26, 2017, 01:50 PM

I wouldn't even consider buying used powder unless it was in sealed factory containers. Even then if it wasn't kept cool it could be good for nothing but fertilizer for the flower garden. Old smokeless powder is only dangerous if it is mislabeled or degraded to the point where it sticks a bullet in the barrel.

condor bravo · May 26, 2017, 03:41 PM

If you are buying for the purpose of collecting cans with old powder labels for display, like you might find at gun shows, with luck you might find some priced at or below current price for similar new powders. On the other hand, for collector's value, the seller may have the price jacked up considerably, and the cost is anyone's guess.

However, if looking to buy older products for loading, perhaps someone is selling their leftover powder, heed the above post and buy new. It sounds to me like you may be collecting older powder cans and other items as a hobby for displaying.

Check your local gun store for current prices on new items as a guide to prices being asked for older items. For a one pound can of 4227 powder, I recently paid $28.

Stats Shooter · May 26, 2017, 11:24 PM

+1 more here for not using it as propellent.

I don't know your intentions with it, but unless it is factory sealed, I wouldn't even consider it. IMR4064, H1000, H4831, And many alliant extruded powders look nearly identical to the naked eye. (I'm sure many more look the same)
The other thing is, a powders burn characteristics will change depending on how it is stored, humidity, temperature, and just overall age in general. I was loading for one of my guns and I got an old brown label bottle of H1000 from back in the 90's I think....This was 2011. It took 2.8 more graines of powder to achieve similar velocity...And the grains were longer than the newer stuff I had. But it was factory sealed and I used it.

But as a collection piece, I have seen old cans go for $20 or so. I'm not personally a collector of powder cans but have seen displays at the gun shows in Philadelphia MS and Jackson.

BigJimP · May 27, 2017, 12:38 AM

I would not buy it at any price for use as a propellent either....or use it if it was free for that matter....

Value...whatever value you place on collecting the containers....and i see the containers selling for $10 to $20 ...depending on brand, colors, size & condition.../ ...but some of the real old cans can be more ....

FrankenMauser · May 27, 2017, 02:06 AM

Powder with an unknown history is as good as a day-old pile of dog poop.
It could be factory-fresh.
It could be marginal.
Or, it could be something totally different than what's on the label, and dangerous to mess with.

Value is $0.

If you're buying for the container, to use as a decoration, then you have to fight collectors.
The last half dozen pounds of old powder that I ended up with were bundled with some other reloading items at an auction. Had it not been for the additional tools, I would not have been bidding. No one wanted the actual powder. But, because I was fighting collectors that wanted pristine powder canisters, I had to pay a bit more for the tools than I felt I should have.
They figured about $10 per can was reasonable ($50).
I figured $30 for the tools was a good deal.
To get what I wanted, I had to pay more than what they wanted. Still a decent deal ... just not as good as I'd hoped (and none of the collectors hung around long enough for me to sell them the canisters and get some money back

).

Almost 10 years ago, I was given an old can of Unique that had been opened.
It looked right.
It smelled right.
The can looked right.
But I wasn't going to trust it. I like my hands and face the way they are.
The next time I went camping, that "Unique" (if it really was Unique) got sprinkled over the campfire.

mikld · May 27, 2017, 11:54 AM

Quote:

I wouldn't even consider buying used powder unless it was in sealed factory containers.

Yes, used powder is not something I'd buy. First it's very hard to meter and secondly it's difficult to develop loads. Besides, used powder is hard to collect and put into containers...

T. O'Heir · May 27, 2017, 12:34 PM

Alcan has been gone since 1971 when it was bought out by Fiocchi and Smith & Wesson. 46 years ago. S&W AL-7 is just AL-7 made after 1971. Smith closed the plant a few years after buying it. Good for fertilizer and not much else.
Hercules powders were a DuPont brand name. DuPont has been out of the gun powder business since the 70's at least. Alliant owns the name now, but anything with 'DuPont' on the label is as old as the Alcan stuff.
Open cans of any powder are suspect at best.

May 26, 2017, 01:26 PM	#1
Cavalryjoe Junior Member Join Date: May 25, 2017 Posts: 1	Smokeless Powder and other supply costs What is a reasonable price to pay for old smokeless powder such as: Alcan 7 S&W AL-7 Hercules Herco smokeless Shotgun Powder Dupont smokeless shotgun powder Hercules Unique smokeless rifle, pistol, shotgun powder

May 26, 2017, 03:41 PM	#3
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	If you are buying for the purpose of collecting cans with old powder labels for display, like you might find at gun shows, with luck you might find some priced at or below current price for similar new powders. On the other hand, for collector's value, the seller may have the price jacked up considerably, and the cost is anyone's guess. However, if looking to buy older products for loading, perhaps someone is selling their leftover powder, heed the above post and buy new. It sounds to me like you may be collecting older powder cans and other items as a hobby for displaying. Check your local gun store for current prices on new items as a guide to prices being asked for older items. For a one pound can of 4227 powder, I recently paid $28. Last edited by condor bravo; May 26, 2017 at 05:14 PM.

May 26, 2017, 11:24 PM	#4
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	+1 more here for not using it as propellent. I don't know your intentions with it, but unless it is factory sealed, I wouldn't even consider it. IMR4064, H1000, H4831, And many alliant extruded powders look nearly identical to the naked eye. (I'm sure many more look the same) The other thing is, a powders burn characteristics will change depending on how it is stored, humidity, temperature, and just overall age in general. I was loading for one of my guns and I got an old brown label bottle of H1000 from back in the 90's I think....This was 2011. It took 2.8 more graines of powder to achieve similar velocity...And the grains were longer than the newer stuff I had. But it was factory sealed and I used it. But as a collection piece, I have seen old cans go for $20 or so. I'm not personally a collector of powder cans but have seen displays at the gun shows in Philadelphia MS and Jackson. Last edited by Stats Shooter; May 26, 2017 at 11:32 PM.

May 27, 2017, 02:06 AM	#6
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,774	Powder with an unknown history is as good as a day-old pile of dog poop. It could be factory-fresh. It could be marginal. Or, it could be something totally different than what's on the label, and dangerous to mess with. Value is $0. If you're buying for the container, to use as a decoration, then you have to fight collectors. The last half dozen pounds of old powder that I ended up with were bundled with some other reloading items at an auction. Had it not been for the additional tools, I would not have been bidding. No one wanted the actual powder. But, because I was fighting collectors that wanted pristine powder canisters, I had to pay a bit more for the tools than I felt I should have. They figured about $10 per can was reasonable ($50). I figured $30 for the tools was a good deal. To get what I wanted, I had to pay more than what they wanted. Still a decent deal ... just not as good as I'd hoped (and none of the collectors hung around long enough for me to sell them the canisters and get some money back ). Almost 10 years ago, I was given an old can of Unique that had been opened. It looked right. It smelled right. The can looked right. But I wasn't going to trust it. I like my hands and face the way they are. The next time I went camping, that "Unique" (if it really was Unique) got sprinkled over the campfire. __________________ -Unwilling Range Officer -Unwilling Match Designer -NRL22/PRS22/PRO -Something about broccoli and carrots

May 26, 2017, 01:50 PM	#2
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	I wouldn't even consider buying used powder unless it was in sealed factory containers. Even then if it wasn't kept cool it could be good for nothing but fertilizer for the flower garden. Old smokeless powder is only dangerous if it is mislabeled or degraded to the point where it sticks a bullet in the barrel.

May 27, 2017, 12:38 AM	#5
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I would not buy it at any price for use as a propellent either....or use it if it was free for that matter.... Value...whatever value you place on collecting the containers....and i see the containers selling for $10 to $20 ...depending on brand, colors, size & condition.../ ...but some of the real old cans can be more ....

May 27, 2017, 12:34 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Alcan has been gone since 1971 when it was bought out by Fiocchi and Smith & Wesson. 46 years ago. S&W AL-7 is just AL-7 made after 1971. Smith closed the plant a few years after buying it. Good for fertilizer and not much else. Hercules powders were a DuPont brand name. DuPont has been out of the gun powder business since the 70's at least. Alliant owns the name now, but anything with 'DuPont' on the label is as old as the Alcan stuff. Open cans of any powder are suspect at best.