Lyman GPR Flint: Fantasy Piece?

[Model12Win]

Hey guys! As some of you may know I am looking at all my options for a flintlock rifle, actually my first black powder rifle ever. I have been firing the pistols for a long time and love it and want to get into the rifles this spring/summer.

So I have heard a lot good about the Lyman Great Plains Rifles for an affordable yet very good quality rifle. Now I know these are based on the J&S Hawken rifles that were made as percussion guns. So that makes me wonder... is something like the Lyman GPR with a flintlock a "fantasy" gun?



To all you experts out there, do you know of any flintlock rifles that were made in this general pattern, that being a half-stocked "plains" type rifle? Or were all the guns produced like this made in percussion only? Not necessarily by just the Hawken bros., but by the other makers of plains rifles as well.

Just a question for you rifle gurus out there. It's not a deal killer if this would be an inauthentic design, I really like the rustic straightforward look and apparently these are a step above the Traditions guns but don't cost as much as a Pedersoli.

Thanks!

[Hawg]

I would say 98% of the plains rifles were percussion but there were some half stock flinters made, just not very many. There is one flint Hawken but it's authenticity is questionable.

[l.cutler]

There certainly were half stock flint locks, but the Lyman is more of a later style. It is based on the fully developed later Hawken rifle which were all percussion, so yes it is in effect a fantasy piece.

[Hawg]

Hawken wasn't the only game in town. In fact their numbers in the hands of trappers or mountain men were minuscule. Most of Hawken's business was repairing rifles and blacksmith work. Dickert, Leman and others sold plains type rifles in far greater numbers than Hawken ever thought about.

[4V50 Gary]

Half stocks were made all over the place including the South. Those were the days before large factories and smaller "factories" could custom make a rifle to the buyer's taste (and purse).

The Lyman Great Plains is a modern interpretation of the pre-Civil War Fur Trade Era rifle: Half stock, crescent buttplate, big bore, thicker/stout stock which was less likely to break, simplified trigger guard and sometimes (or not) a cap box.

[Model12Win]

Thanks. Just wondering if their were any FLINTLOCK rifles made in the plains style or at least with similar half stock design. I know the Lyman is a pretty good representation of a caplock plains rifle.

[FrontierGander]

no production muzzleloader looks like a REAL Hawken IMO. Wrong stock shapes, wrong lock panels, overall just a wrong look to them. If you want a real hawken, get a kit thats an actual copy of a Hawken. The hawken shop is one place that offers them, along with track of the wolf.

[Hawg]

He doesn't want a Hawken. He just wants a flinter that looks fairly close to pc without costing a lot.

[Pahoo]

no production muzzleloader looks like a REAL Hawken IMO.

You got that right but more so than others. .....

He just wants a flinter that looks fairly close to pc without costing a lot.

Take a look at the Lyman Trade Rifle. I guarantee you won't be disappointed. I understand that the locks are the same.

Be Safe !!!!

[Hawg]

Take a look at the Lyman Trade Rifle.

Kinda but the TC Hawken is closer to a Tryon trade rifle.

[FrontierGander]

all 3 look nothing like a lyman in any way.

[Hawg]

all 3 look nothing like a lyman in any way.

I did say kinda. Not exact but kinda.

[bedbugbilly]

I bought a Lyman GPR flintlock off of a fellow this past year but didn't get a chance to shoot it before we left for AZ for the winter. For a production gun, I think it is one of the better ones. There are a couple of things I don''t like but that is just me. Why they felt the need to put a tension spring in the underbid of the barrel to keep the ramrod in is beyond me - it isn't necessary. The stock is fairly decent straight grained walnut but has the lines of a production rifle. Once I see how it shoots, next winter it will be a project to carve the beavertail cheek piece so it looks like it should - and the lock panels need work as well.

The lock functions O.K. but in mine, I have to but the bevel down on the flint in order to get the right geometry of the flint hitting the frizzed. It showers alright though - but it is the first flintlock of many that I have owned where the flint had to have the bevel down. AsI said, the lock functions though but I do not like a coil mainspring - I'm more traditional when it comes to small things like that. If I keep it, I will change the lock out with one of the replacement locks that L & R makes. Plus, the lock bolt is in a weird place and I'll be changing that and covering the present hole with an inlaid lock bolt plate.

But again - the rifle functions as it should out of the box and I've never heard anyone complain on how they shoot. Mine is a 50 cal with a RB twist. The price is equivalent to the quality as far as I'm concerned in today's world. No . . . it isn't an authentic Hawkin but half stock trade rifle were made in flint as well. If a person wants to do Rendezvous, etc. - they are accepted and will provide many many hours of shooting pleasure.

Mine was a "finished" rifle and not one of the kits. As far as finish goes, the stocks are just finished in an oil finish. The blueing/blacking or whatever they do is good but I will be stripping my metal parts and be browning them. I'll be adding an inlay to the cheek piece and possibly a patch box - haven't decided on that yet.

In the end . . . they are a good rifle and one that you can use just as it comes or take the time to dress up to suit your own taste - and at a lot less cost than having a custom built rifle. And , , , good for just plain shooting for fun or for putting meat on the table.

[44 Dave]

Why they felt the need to put a tension spring in the underbid of the barrel to keep the ramrod in is beyond me - it isn't necessary.

Ever loose a rod or have it slide part way out while hunting?
I have added springs to a number, but only to catch the end of the rod when it is all of the way in.

[Pahoo]

Ever loose a rod or have it slide part way out while hunting?

Sure have, on a TC and it has the same type of rod retention. Now then, my older GP does not have this retention spring and my newer one does. Looks like this was a factory upgrade. The older one had silicone sealant in the channel that helps to retain the rod. It really isn't all that easy to work with. You must have a new GP. ...... :

I would be willing to trade you barrels but mine is a percussion ......

Be Safe !!!

[Model12Win]

Thanks, all!

I went ahead and bought the Lyman GPR flintlock in .54 caliber. I am very excited to have my first flintlock rifle!!

I understand this gun won't be totally correct in terms of historical accuracy, but I have learned that half-stocked rifles of this broad style with flintlock mechanisms did exist during the late 18th-early 19th centuries.

As soon as it arrives, I'll post some pics. I can't wait!!

M12

[Beagle333]

Great! Will await pics. I'll bet it brings you a lot of joy.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

54 cal you say. That is allot of caliber to shoot off the upper arm. Repetitive shooting of heavy charges will indeed be bruising due to the rifles crescent butt plate. Luckily you are able to shoot reduced powder charges in this rifle when testing powder charges for best possible groupings thus eliminating allot of its felt recoil. Hunting with a 54. "That sir is a whole different topic."

Enjoy you're new Rock Lock.

[Hawg]

54 cal you say. That is allot of caliber to shoot off the upper arm. Repetitive shooting of heavy charges will indeed be bruising due to the rifles crescent butt plate.

That will depend on his recoil sensitivity. I can shoot round balls with 90 grain charges all day long with my .54 Hawken. That might be a little light by most standards but it's where my gun is most accurate and it's my hunting load too.

[Model12Win]

"That sir is a whole different topic."

What do you mean? I wanted a .54 due to decreased barrel weight and to possibly take large boars with, plus I wanted to share components with my .54 cal pistol.

[Strafer Gott]

.54 makes a good hunting rifle with round ball. I have a .50 GPR percussion for plinking and squirrel. For big game, a .58 get's the nod. Momma don't allow no casting around here, so plinking with a .58 costs twice as much as the fifty. I use a 4cc scoop of Pyrodex RS right out of the jar, which is a little light for a .58, but pretty right on for a fifty. Point is, they don't need overloading to be accurate and effective.

[McShooty]

Thinking of whether it is a fantasy gun or not, you could consider that the Harper's Ferry Model 1803, the very first U.S. rifle made at an American armory, was a half-stock flinter and a very handsome rifle. It was also .54 caliber. And many think it was the rifle taken by the Lewis and Clark corps on their famous expedition. If you like stuff with a historical reference this might interest you.

The Lyman does not look exactly like the Harper's Ferry, but the guys here say it doesn't look like a Hawken either. I put one together (.50) a few years ago. It is a ball to shoot, accurate, reliable flint ignition, and it looks enough like a Hawken to satisfy my nonpurist taste.

[ocharry]

dont worry mod12,,,,54 will do anything you ask it to do,,,you made a good pick my friend

been using 54 for many many years,,,,dont recall it ever making my shoulder hurt,,,,but it has always made my face smile

ocharry

[Hawg]

The Lyman does not look exactly like the Harper's Ferry, but the guys here say it doesn't look like a Hawken either.

It's about as close to a Hawken as you can get in a reasonably priced production rifle. It's a lot closer to a Hawken than a TC or CVA Hawken but then Lyman doesn't call it a Hawken either. It's not a bad interpretation of a general plains rifle.