44 mag rifle/pistol reload

dbrach · May 28, 2016, 04:01 PM

I have a s&with 629 with a 5" barrel and a tube fed ruger 44 carbine. Looking for a load recipe that will work with both. I have been shooting 200g FP bullet heads in the revolver but they don't have enough punch to cycle the rifle. I would like to keep using the 200g fp bullets And unique powder. I am at the max charge though for the pistol. Any suggestions as to recipes or other powders so I can reload one powder and charge for both. Thanks

reddog81 · May 28, 2016, 04:11 PM

I would think a slower powder like IMR 4227 or Alliant 2400 or Winchester 296 would work better. Of course Alliant 2400 has been pretty hard to find lately. I imagine there are others out there that would work like maybe Accurate #9 but I don't have any experience with them.

I'm kind of surprised that a max charge of unique won't cylce the Ruger. Have you tried a good cleaning. Maybe the action is junked up a little.

Ole Joe Clark · May 28, 2016, 07:55 PM

Unique won't give you the results you want. I've been down that road with the Ruger 44 mag semi auto. I changed to 2400 and/or 296, problem solved.

2400 or 296 will work in the pistol also. You will be happy.

g.willikers · May 29, 2016, 08:14 AM

The notion of simplifying reloading by having the same ingredients work for both handgun and auto rifle is rarely successful.
It can result in either a stiff load for the revolver or, as you experienced, a non-functioning one for the autoloader rifle.
That's why the combo of revolver and lever action is/was so popular.

SHR970 · May 29, 2016, 12:00 PM

Semiauto rifles work within a certain speed band of powders. Too slow or too fast results in improper performance. The original Ruger 44 mag carbine is akin to the 30 carbine in that its performace window is very small. As you have found out already Unique is not in the performance window. Do not try to make it work because it will not. PERIOD......END of Discussion

You can use 200 gr. bullets.....here are your powder choices..... 2400, 4227, W296 / H110, AA#9. Those Rugers like the loads warm to hot. Don't bother trying to use these powders and make "SOFT" loads..it won't work. Your gun will perform at the mid to top load data for these powders properly.

John D · May 29, 2016, 12:02 PM

Had the same thing with my 44 Mag carbine. Use 2400 - it's plenty spunky!

**Unclenick** · May 29, 2016, 01:58 PM

The powder is the problem. All gas operated weapons have a pressure impulse window that has to be met as the bullet passes the gas port. The pressure impulse is the pressure multiplied by the pressure dwell. The dwell is the time between the bullet base passing the gas port to expose it to pressure and the pressure dropping again after the bullet clears the muzzle. A bullet that is too light can go so fast the gas port gets inadequate dwell even if the pressure is high enough, and very heavy, slow bullet that dwells too long at that pressure can cause damage by pushing too much gas into the piston block.

If you are using cast bullets, I strongly recommend a gas check design for the carbine. Without a gas check, gas cutting can splatter lead off the bullet base and into the gas cylinder and onto the piston and cylinder block plug. That can eventually build up enough to cause problems. The nice thing about the revolver is it will handle pretty much whatever kind of load you use, as long as the pressure is OK. The carbine is pickier and will be happiest with a jacketed 240 grain JHP bullet like the Hornady 240 grain HP XTP or the Sierra 240 grain JHC or the Speer 240 grain JHP and JSP bullets, or the Nosler 240 grain SP and HP even the Winchester 240 grain SJHP over 24 grains of either 296 or H110 (the same powder with different branding) with a Winchester LP primer, which was the original single load recipe Winchester recommended and which was one of their factory loads at the time. I find the Sierra and Hornady bullets accurate. I've had poor accuracy from some Winchester bullets in the past. I haven't tried the Nosler and Speer offerings in this caliber.

That factory load was probably the most common type of 44 Mag load produced when the rifle was still in production. You may or may not have success with more modern loadings and bullet developments, but at least that gives you a starting point.

There will also be 2400 and IMR4227 loads that develop the required gas impulse. I just don't have a convenient single recipe like that for them.

KEYBEAR · May 29, 2016, 07:30 PM

I did the same thing for my son . He has a Super Blackhawk and Ruger 77/44 Rifle both 44 Mag and shooting the same load very well .

I loaded a 240 gr, XTP on top of 23.5 gr of 296 . I tried two or three different bullets and some different powders .

I tried a lot of bullets the 240 XTP shoots flatter than a 300 gr. XTP by a bunch. You can sight a SBH 7.5 barrel in at 50 yards dead on and still hit a Deer in the kill zone at 100 yards with my load . The 300gr. XTP will not do that it will drop 7 inches the 240gr. 3 inches and it gets real bad past 100 yards .

The Ruger 77/44 also shoots this load very well .

My son is a deer hunter And has been for close to 30 years .

TimSr · June 1, 2016, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Semiauto rifles work within a certain speed band of powders. Too slow or too fast results in improper performance.

I can't think of a single 44 magnum powder that is too slow for a semi-auto, but maybe you were speaking of semi autos in general, with which I would agree. For 44 mag, the slowest tend to work the best.

I couldn't even get Unique to cycle right in my 30 carbine.

**Unclenick** · June 1, 2016, 04:12 PM

The slower the powder the further the bullet moves by the time the peak is reached, but the higher the pressure is further down the barrel, as when passing over a gas port. The powder is too slow only if that gas port pressure exceeds its spec limits and runs the mechanism too hard and fatigues or breaks it. This has been most notably a problem with the M1 Garand, whose long operating rod is particularly vulnerable to being sprung by excess pressure, but other guns can be run too hard, too, from a wear standpoint.

Note that because a heavier bullet does not move as far forward by the time a slow powder peaks, you have to use a lower charge weight than with a lighter bullet. That makes less gas, lowering gas port pressure again. So you can have a powder that is too slow for lighter bullets but that at the same peak pressure has the right gas port pressure for heavier bullets. For example, IMR 4350 is generally considered too slow the Garand system, and with the usual 150-175 grain bullet weight range, it is. But John Clarke had loads for 200 grain bullets with it that were OK in the Garand.

May 28, 2016, 04:01 PM	#1
dbrach Junior Member Join Date: December 9, 2011 Posts: 5	44 mag rifle/pistol reload I have a s&with 629 with a 5" barrel and a tube fed ruger 44 carbine. Looking for a load recipe that will work with both. I have been shooting 200g FP bullet heads in the revolver but they don't have enough punch to cycle the rifle. I would like to keep using the 200g fp bullets And unique powder. I am at the max charge though for the pistol. Any suggestions as to recipes or other powders so I can reload one powder and charge for both. Thanks

May 29, 2016, 01:58 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,131	The powder is the problem. All gas operated weapons have a pressure impulse window that has to be met as the bullet passes the gas port. The pressure impulse is the pressure multiplied by the pressure dwell. The dwell is the time between the bullet base passing the gas port to expose it to pressure and the pressure dropping again after the bullet clears the muzzle. A bullet that is too light can go so fast the gas port gets inadequate dwell even if the pressure is high enough, and very heavy, slow bullet that dwells too long at that pressure can cause damage by pushing too much gas into the piston block. If you are using cast bullets, I strongly recommend a gas check design for the carbine. Without a gas check, gas cutting can splatter lead off the bullet base and into the gas cylinder and onto the piston and cylinder block plug. That can eventually build up enough to cause problems. The nice thing about the revolver is it will handle pretty much whatever kind of load you use, as long as the pressure is OK. The carbine is pickier and will be happiest with a jacketed 240 grain JHP bullet like the Hornady 240 grain HP XTP or the Sierra 240 grain JHC or the Speer 240 grain JHP and JSP bullets, or the Nosler 240 grain SP and HP even the Winchester 240 grain SJHP over 24 grains of either 296 or H110 (the same powder with different branding) with a Winchester LP primer, which was the original single load recipe Winchester recommended and which was one of their factory loads at the time. I find the Sierra and Hornady bullets accurate. I've had poor accuracy from some Winchester bullets in the past. I haven't tried the Nosler and Speer offerings in this caliber. That factory load was probably the most common type of 44 Mag load produced when the rifle was still in production. You may or may not have success with more modern loadings and bullet developments, but at least that gives you a starting point. There will also be 2400 and IMR4227 loads that develop the required gas impulse. I just don't have a convenient single recipe like that for them. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 1, 2016, 04:12 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,131	The slower the powder the further the bullet moves by the time the peak is reached, but the higher the pressure is further down the barrel, as when passing over a gas port. The powder is too slow only if that gas port pressure exceeds its spec limits and runs the mechanism too hard and fatigues or breaks it. This has been most notably a problem with the M1 Garand, whose long operating rod is particularly vulnerable to being sprung by excess pressure, but other guns can be run too hard, too, from a wear standpoint. Note that because a heavier bullet does not move as far forward by the time a slow powder peaks, you have to use a lower charge weight than with a lighter bullet. That makes less gas, lowering gas port pressure again. So you can have a powder that is too slow for lighter bullets but that at the same peak pressure has the right gas port pressure for heavier bullets. For example, IMR 4350 is generally considered too slow the Garand system, and with the usual 150-175 grain bullet weight range, it is. But John Clarke had loads for 200 grain bullets with it that were OK in the Garand. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 28, 2016, 04:11 PM	#2
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,641	I would think a slower powder like IMR 4227 or Alliant 2400 or Winchester 296 would work better. Of course Alliant 2400 has been pretty hard to find lately. I imagine there are others out there that would work like maybe Accurate #9 but I don't have any experience with them. I'm kind of surprised that a max charge of unique won't cylce the Ruger. Have you tried a good cleaning. Maybe the action is junked up a little.

May 28, 2016, 07:55 PM	#3
Ole Joe Clark Member Join Date: March 14, 2015 Location: Heart of Dixie Posts: 52	Unique won't give you the results you want. I've been down that road with the Ruger 44 mag semi auto. I changed to 2400 and/or 296, problem solved. 2400 or 296 will work in the pistol also. You will be happy.

May 29, 2016, 08:14 AM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	The notion of simplifying reloading by having the same ingredients work for both handgun and auto rifle is rarely successful. It can result in either a stiff load for the revolver or, as you experienced, a non-functioning one for the autoloader rifle. That's why the combo of revolver and lever action is/was so popular.

May 29, 2016, 12:00 PM	#5
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	Semiauto rifles work within a certain speed band of powders. Too slow or too fast results in improper performance. The original Ruger 44 mag carbine is akin to the 30 carbine in that its performace window is very small. As you have found out already Unique is not in the performance window. Do not try to make it work because it will not. PERIOD......END of Discussion You can use 200 gr. bullets.....here are your powder choices..... 2400, 4227, W296 / H110, AA#9. Those Rugers like the loads warm to hot. Don't bother trying to use these powders and make "SOFT" loads..it won't work. Your gun will perform at the mid to top load data for these powders properly.

May 29, 2016, 12:02 PM	#6
John D Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2000 Location: No. Arizona Posts: 436	Had the same thing with my 44 Mag carbine. Use 2400 - it's plenty spunky!

May 29, 2016, 07:30 PM	#8
KEYBEAR Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,059	I did the same thing for my son . He has a Super Blackhawk and Ruger 77/44 Rifle both 44 Mag and shooting the same load very well . I loaded a 240 gr, XTP on top of 23.5 gr of 296 . I tried two or three different bullets and some different powders . I tried a lot of bullets the 240 XTP shoots flatter than a 300 gr. XTP by a bunch. You can sight a SBH 7.5 barrel in at 50 yards dead on and still hit a Deer in the kill zone at 100 yards with my load . The 300gr. XTP will not do that it will drop 7 inches the 240gr. 3 inches and it gets real bad past 100 yards . The Ruger 77/44 also shoots this load very well . My son is a deer hunter And has been for close to 30 years .