bad primers?

[irnsite]

Been reloading for 15 years and never had this problem. In my last 50 round block 15 rounds had primers that had firing pin dents but did not fire. All other cartridges had similar dents and no problem. All primers from same lot. Any suggestions?

[Shootest]

Are you sure they were seated to the proper depth? Did you clean and or uniform the primer pockets? What brand are they?

[mikld]

I can't be of much help on this one. I'm amazed by how many primers are manufactured and so few with any problems. I have been reloading, off and on, since 1969 and really don't remember any primer problems, failures to fire, that were not my fault. I believe every primer I have seated correctly in all that time has gone bang (with one exception; Winchester SP primers had to be "pre-loaded" or "sensitized" to work in my striker fired 9mm). I've used CCI, Winchester, Wolf, and Remington primers successfully...

If I did have problems I would first look at my part, seating, and then the gun before I decided I had "bad" primers...

[irnsite]

Yup, same process as always, clean pcket, if the cleaner rattles in the pocket the brass goes to recycle. All primers set flush as always. Primers are Winchester large rifle. Any other ideas?

[jdscholer]

Did you try firing them a second time?

Defective primers are soooooo rare as to make you or your firearm, or your process the suspected culprit. (no offense intended) jd

[4runnerman]

Just food for thought here. Had same issue i my 6BR here last summer. I had 100 rounds set for my Match. I ended up with 7 that did the same thing. Not thinking to much of it, I just broke them down and reloaded and went on my merry way. Next week at the range out of 100 I had around 12 that same thing happened to. Now I was starting to wonder. Long story short here. When I did find out the Issue,It turned out to be One of 2 things( Can't say for sure as I did both at the same time) Firing spring getting weak and The other( which it Probably was) When is the last time ( If Bolt) you took it apart a cleaned the spring and re lubed it?.

[Nick_C_S]

Did you try firing them a second time?

Defective primers are soooooo rare as to make you or your firearm, or your process the suspected culprit. (no offense intended) jd

^^ All of this. ^^

I'd like more data too: What gun? Has it had any "work" done to it? What ammo? What brand/type of primer? How do you prime?

I've been loading for 31 years (handgun only), and in that time, I have had zero primer failures (I have used a Lee hand priming tool this entire time). That's zero. After what must be well over 100,000 rounds.

Now I have a revolver that I had trigger work done to it while it was still out-of-the-box factory new. And before it was broke in, it had a few failures to ignite. But with all of them, I'd index the cylinder back, re-stab the primer, and it discharged. (Once the trigger mechanisms broke in and smoothed out, the ignition failures ceased.)

[condor bravo]

Can only suggest firing pin light strikes. By chance are you using an older model lever action that might have a weak main spring, or have the firearm with same primers and ammunition behaved properly in the past? Not sure what is meant by all other ammunition having similar firing pin dents. Fired rounds should show a greater firing pin indentation than those that didn't fire.

[T. O'Heir]

Any issues with factory ammo? Most likely seated high, but if it happens with ALL ammo it's the firearm.
Springs do not lose temper from being used.

[RC20]

Same here, what gun and caliber?

Something changed, can range from a gummy striker to a striker that was marginal and has shifted far enough that its gotten erratic.

There's been some interesting work done on how far the firing pin sticks out vs reliability.

Spring a possible issue.

[Longshot4]

I have seen neglected bolt gun that had rusted internal spring... That Deer hunter had snow melt and rain contamination and possibly even condensation from bringing a cold rifle in to a heated building. Keep them clean lubed and dry.

[hartcreek]

First off seated flush.....my primers are usually seated below flush then after that the specifics of the weapon as it could have crud some place or have a weak spring.

[DAVID NANCARROW]

I ran into some Winchester large pistol primers which had some duds years ago, when they began to manufacture the brass colored primer cups. I stayed away from WW primers for a few years, but I haven't had the problem resurface.
At first, I thought I hadn't seated the primers correctly, but I am pretty anal about them, and have seated them by hand for 20 or more years. Nothing wrong with the weapon I was firing them in either. They would touch off CCI, Fed, and Remington primers without trouble.

The weapon is a Colt Series 80 with the standard hammer and mainspring.

[overthere]

What cartridge is this? Rifle or pistol?

In addition to the point others have made that primers should be seated deeper than flush, you can experience failure to fire for bottle-neck rifle cartridges if you bump the shoulders back too far.

When this is done, the case will move forward in the chamber when the firing pin hits the primer, causing the firing pin to not to go 'deep enough' into the primer for it to ignite.

I had this happen with 223 loads where I had the body die screwed in too far.

[F. Guffey]

When this is done, the case will move forward in the chamber when the firing pin hits the primer, causing the firing pin to not to go 'deep enough' into the primer for it to ignite.

And how does that story go? Goes something like this" The firing pin strikes the primer and then the whole thing, the case, powder and bullet takes off in a dead run to out-run the firing pin, and then, the shoulder of the case collides with the shoulder of the chamber and the primer is busted by the firing pin.

Funny, I have killer firing pins, my firing pins crush the primer before the case, powder and bullet knows their little buddy, the primer has been struck. And then there are those that have taken rifles apart if for no other reason to determine if it was possible for a case to take off for the front of the chamber while it is being chased by the firing pin.

I got a call, a very disciplined reloader called from a shooting range, he wanted to know about Remington mew ammo. I suggested he get the phone number off of the box and call Remington. Seems there was a shooter with a new rifle chambered to 30/06. He started with 2 boxes of new Remington ammo, out of the first box he had 5 rounds that failed to fire with the first attempt to fire. The shooter then made a second attempt at firing, nothing. He then offered the failed rounds to other shooters with 30/06 rifles, in that attempt the primers were struck at least 3 more times for a total of 5 times.

That afternoon 15 fired cases and 5 failed to fire rounds show up without the box or information regarding the owner of the rifle. I measured the fired cases with about every tool I own, I was impressed, the fired cases would chamber without effort in every 30/06 rifle I have and the fired cases fit my chamber gages. We tore the failed cases down and checked the components, again I was impressed. We removed the primers then installed the primers back into the same cases they were removed from then chambered each one at a time in one of my M1917 with killer firing pins then busted the primers, one at a time. I believe one of my M1917s would have busted the primers on the first go-around or the last.

One of my M1917s has a long chamber, .011" longer than a go gage length chamber, not being a fan of all that travel I off set the length of the chamber with the length of the case.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

and there is the dent, when my primers fail there is a BAD as in big dent, that is what my firing pins do. Then there was always the last round chambered in an M1 and not fired. I have never seen one that did not have a SBD, small baby dent. Then there are push feed and control feed, in the real world when someone tells me the case, powder and bullet out runs the firing pin I always ask them to start over because I was not listening or I missed the first part.

F. Guffey

[Dave P]

"We tore the failed cases down and checked the components, again I was impressed. We removed the primers then installed the primers back into the same cases they were removed from then chambered each one at a time... then busted the primers, one at a time."

What were you impressed with???

So you proved the primers could be fired. What else???

[F. Guffey]

What were you impressed with???

Three questions marks? Are you angry?

I was set up with a RCBS Pro scale, I was not set up with a Rock Checker. The very disciplined reloader insisted we use the RCBS 10-10 scale and we switch the Rock Chucker, not a problem.

There was not .1 tenth grain difference between all of the components, bullet, powder and case. I have heard/read stories about firing pins hitting the primer causing the case to shorten from the shoulder to the case head, the fail to fire rounds were not shortened even after having been hit at least 5 times with firing pins in 4 different rifles, then there is my killer firing pins.

the disciplined reloader called me the next day wanting information on the manufacturer of some of the tools we were using. Seems he got on the Internet and was not able to find them. Home made, one is thumb operated, for him it was nice to have tools he was familiar with to compare the difference. At the range it was "Bad old Remington ammo", again, I was impressed with the way Remington put their ammo together and, that was not the first time.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

So you proved the primers could be fired. What else???

Typing slower, the box for the ammo was left at the range and the contact information for the proud owner of the new rifle was unknown. The disciplined reloader waned to know where to start, one more time, he called me, I instructed him to get the phone number off of the Remington box then call Remington.

What else???

He gave me the 20 cases, 5 pull down and 15 fired.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

call Remington

If Remington has bad ammo they need to know, Timex primers, I expected the contents of the primer to pour out of the cup. That did not happen after all that abuse. Timex, they take a beating and keep on ticking, I like that in a primer.

F. Guffey

[Tom Matiska]

My experience is primer problems are usually caused by everything except the primer. head space, seating depth, buildup of junk around firing pin, weak spring, .... etc....

[riche]

Your not the only one who had problems. Last fall I had a number of fail to fire WLR primers, lot# BGL314G. Some were so hard the firing pin barely put a dimple on them, instead of being anodized gold, most were a grayish color. I tried the ones that FTF in another 308 rifle and got the same results. I ended up pulling all those cartridges apart and reloaded them up again with Wolf primers. Why Wolf?? Because when primers were hard to come by, I picked up a 1000 pack at a gun show. I contacted Winchester, they sent me a return box with instructions that said some trucking company would pick up the package. That was last November, no one ever came to pick them up, so they still sit here packaged up ready to go. I'm not going to pursue it, after all its only a couple of dollars, but I did let them know there was a problem with that lot number.

[SnoBear]

Is it possible that some of your primers were contaminated? WD40 over spray, case lube on your fingers while handling primers, Hopies cleaning fluid.

Just throwing it out there ...