Is my math right?

[texastea88]

Hi all. First off, I'd like to say thank you to all the members who have offered their invaluable advice on this forum. The info I've gathered here is most excellent. I hope to one day contribute as much as I've learned.

My question though, as I am considering hand loading my own rounds, I'd like someone to verify my math. I am looking to reload 9mm, .223, and .45ACP. My math has me paying .13, .17, and .16 per round, respectively. I find .45ACP to offer the greatest savings over buying store bought.

Considering the amount of ammo I shoot per month, I figure I would break even on my initial equipment investment at 3,000 rounds of each. ($360 savings per 1,000 rounds.) Now I am not expecting anyone to take out a calculator and do the math, but do my numbers sound right? If so, this is a no brainer for me. I am planning on spending $1,000 on my initial investment. 3,000 rounds would last me about 3 months on the pistol round, maybe longer on the .223.

Not only am I looking at the cost savings, but also not having to scrounge around to find ammo when the local places run dry. Being able to spend a few hours a night to load a couple hundred rounds sounds like a worthy way to spend my time. And I am quite sure it won't feel like work anyway.

Do I have my math correct? Forgive me for asking such a childish question. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking anything.

[Metal god]

Yes and no . Depending on what components you buy , yes you can load for those numbers . Your 223 number is right in at about what I load my plinking rounds for . Now they shoot well but there not sub moa loads . Your other numbers are pretty close to what you can load other plinking ammo for as well . IMO where you find real savings is when you start loading match quality ammo . My 223 match grade loads cost me 32 cents each and hold sub moa 10 shot groups at 100yds . That's about 50 to 70 cents cheaper - maybe more then factory match ammo ( Fed gmm & Black-hills ). 9mm your not going to save much when compared to sale and or bulk buying of factory ammo . 45 is a place you can save some money .

I'm sure you know ammo is only cheap to load if you don't count your time . The amount of time I've spent on case prep is more then loading it self . They say you can load 100rds an hour on a single stage press . Sure if you don't count cleaning , sizing , trimming , deburring and cleaning again . You need to do all that because your trying to save money and using used brass This is a hobby and just plain old fun for most of us so the time it takes is not part of the price .

Oh and although you are saving money per round . It's importent you understand you WILL not save any money , you will just shoot more .

[hartcreek]

$1000 to start up in three calibers is a bit steep. There are people here that sell once fired brass which is the best way to go. If you really plan to stay with just those three then a Lee Progressive might be the best way for you to go as they will handle pistol calibres and .223. You can still find sales that the press kit includes one set of dies. I cast my own too so if you want to and you have the time there is no reason for you not to make your own bullets too if you have a source for lead.

In the end I have not saved money but I shoot more and have a larger variety of calibers simply because I roll my own.

[skizzums]

I load 9mm and .223, I don't buy much brass anymore, but when I did, I would pay arpund 50-60$ for 1000 rounds of 9mm. So we will say 6c, powder is expensive right now at about 28$ per pounds. You looking at around 1700 rounds per pound of most powders. So we'll say 2c. I buy primers for 30-35$, so 4c. So your at 12c including brass. Of your going lead bullets, they can be had at 65$ per thousand or 100$ for jacketed. I like lead, but if i didntnt I would go plated and meet in the middle. So, not including equipment, your at 18-20c. 180$ to get started on your first 1k. Everything is about the same for .223, expect brass will probably run you an extra 10$ per k and so will jacketed bullets. The big thing about .223 is powder, taking 3-4 pounds depending on what type for 1k rounds. So about $300 for your first thousand. But after you accumulate your brass, the savings really starts kicking in.

I use a cheap lee anniversary breech lock kit. 109$ for the whole set up plus 30$ for dies for each caliber. I save a lot from reloading, I used to go broke buying ammo. My biggest savings is 38spl and 9mm mostly from casting my own bullets or buying bulk lead cast.

[TimSr]

There have been times when it didn't pay for me to load 9mm except during the shortage. I would expect .45 to be the biggest savings as there are lots and lots of low cost imports for .223 and 9mm. Its nice though to produce much better quality budget ammo than you can buy.


With this in mind, look at getting started and spending as much or more or ammo than just buying it. After you become confident in your reloading, then you can start looking at ways to cut costs in components. Not counting brass, the bullet tends to be the most expesive component, and ultimately your greatest potential for saving is when you work up some cast bullet loads, and find free or low cost sources of brass. I have never bought new brass, as it costs more than ammo, so always sytarted out by buying factory ammo that uses reloadable brass, and then watching for cheap used stuff, or accepting freebies form my shooting friends. 9mm brass is super cheap because so many don't bother reloading it, as with .223 military crimped brass. .45 is readily available used, but you'll pay more for it.

[Beentown71]

The largest difference for me is that I load GREAT ammo for a bit cheaper than plinker factory stuff.

Hornady V-Max $0.12 each
Ramshot TAC $0.10 each
CCI SRP $0.03
LC Brass $0.06

So a first load with brass I will reuse many times it cost me $0.31 each. These loads work great and are under an inch with every rifle I own.

[Gadawg88]

If you are shooting 1000 per month and you have the time and are looking for a new hobby then it is a no brainier. If you just want to save money, my advice would be not to do it. If you want to enrich your shooting experience, are the type that likes making and doing things themselves and has patience and can pay attention to detail, then make the plunge. You may find that you enjoy making the ammo almost as much as shooting it.

You may already know this, but here goes. Powder can be tuff to come by right now. It has gotten better over the last few months, but that's not saying much. Pistol powder, particularly the most popular ones, is scarce. Buying in bulk is key to keeping your cost down and saving money. If you order powder and/or primers online you will have to pay a hazmat shipping fee, usually $28, plus normal shipping. Sounds like a lot and it is, but my experience has been that if you order at least 4 pounds of powder, the total cost comes out to what it would cost to buy off the shelf from a LGS or Cabelas. That is if you order from the likes of Powder Valley which pretty consistently has the lowest prices online. Again, availability is the problem. Order in quantities of 8 lb jugs and add primers to the order and the haz mat/ shipping gets spread out to a negligible amount.

Good luck

[polyphemus]

I'm sure you know ammo is only cheap to load if you don't count your time

And so it goes.OP if you are going to take time off work to reload your ammo
then the above applies,otherwise you are looking at a craft as complex and
challenging as you want to make it.There are so many variables here that the
economics of it can only be determined on the run.Do your homework first and
then start small,the time you spend will always reflect on the quality of your work.good luck

[Sevens]

It's not a childish question and I'm not going to answer it directly as others have done/will do that. But keep in mind that there are BIG TIME advantages to rolling your own that can't really be tagged with a number. Dipping in to your own large personal stash before range days and completely skipping past EVERY ammo retailer on the planet is a huge one. Tailoring loads specifically to your gun and needs is another very big one.

And at some point you'll have to decide exactly how important the economics of it are to you -- because you actually have a good bit of control over how much you "SAVE" in this game. At it's most basic, your best bet to lower the costs is to be ready, willing and able to buybuyBUY and do it in serious volume.

Don't buy 100 bullets in a box, that's ludicrous. You'll save a heap when you buy a thousand. But me? I don't buy a thousand anymore... to me, that's just a waste of my time. My minimum is usually 3,000 and when the price and the opportunity presents itself, I'm buying 10,000. I have done as much as 21k in one fell swoop. And I'm always looking for the next one.

You've got to have a budget that allows for expenditures in an instant that are as much or more as some gun purchases. This is not for everyone... took me a number of years and a unique series of life changes to allow for it. But the bottom line is that you have a big hand in it and it's a Catch-22. If you can spend like a drunken sailor with a winning lottery ticket, you can lower your costs.

[rclark]

Tailoring loads specifically to your gun and needs is another very big one.

Absolutely correct. 'Cheaper' to reload is just part of it. But generating loads that YOU want to shoot and shoot well in YOUR gun is priceless. Just for one simple example, I have .44Mag revolvers ... but I don't like to shoot magnum loads (been there, done that, past that). So I don't! Because I reload, I can make poppers, pingers, or very hard hitters.... Opens up a whole world when you choose to reload and not rely on just factory stuff.

Not sure why 'time' comes up. It is your time and reloading can be relaxing and rewarding and you are not on 'the clock'. Load what you want, when you want. Win Win.... The .22 shortage has shown me another good reason to roll your own.

As for the math, just remember, every time you crank the handle you've saved some money. Over time you'll have 'paid back' your hardware expense... In reality though, it just allows you to shoot more and you don't think about the actual cost of getting into reloading... That just fades into the background as a necessary expense .

[T. O'Heir]

Not having to scrounge around to find ammo is one of the things reloading is about. You hunt for component deals instead.
The other is using the best ammo possible out of your firearms. Cost savings is just a bonus.

[StripesDude]

The math behind my reloads turns out to be about half of Winchester White Box. Break even at 1300 rounds based on my equipment. If I were Bill Gates, the time wouldn't be worth it, but I'm not, and I enjoy reloading.

[reddog81]

$.13 for 9MM and .16 for 45 are doable if you aren't paying for brass. $.17 for .223 doesn't sound right to me. Primer are about $.03, powder is about $.08 to $.10 or more, bullets are $.10 to $.20. If you can get down to $.17 or less more power to you, but I haven't been able to do it for that cheap.

The payback is better for less common rounds. The calibers you mention are some of the most common rounds out there. The factory stuff is plentiful and cheap compared to some of the other calibers out there.

[Colorado Redneck]

The cost per round, if just the components used for each round is considered will be cheaper than purchasing ammo. Some simple guidelines need to be followed for that to work out.
1. Work up loads using common components that are mostly easy to purchase and available.
2. Don't experiment with different bullets and powders etc.
3.Once you have your load that works well, buy powder, primers, and bullets in large quantity.
4. Shop for deals---sales and the like.

I have probably 20 containers of powder that never will get used. Tried different stuff to experiment around, and it doesn't work for me. Boxes of bullets with 25 used, and 75 that will sit there till I quit shooting and then get thrown.

I also have stock piled components for a caliber (22 hornet for one) that I eventually got tired of and got rid of the gun. Several hundred rounds loaded and will never get used.

I could go on and on. So understand, it is how you approach the activity that will determine the balance sheet.

It is really very enjoyable and to me, well worth every cent I spend. YMMV.

[TimSr]

Cash savings starts to really become significant on those rounds that are typically very pricey, but use common components to reload.

Sure a box of 9mm doesn't save enough to cover your time, but when I look in my log book and see what I've saved in .44 Mag or .454 Casull, .357 Mag and some of the rifle rounds I do over the years, its pretty staggering.

[serf 'rett]

If you want to play the numbers game, this link gives you quick cost calculations:

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

My initial equipment investment of $500 was recouped in less than 4000 rounds of 9mm.

[Rimfire5]

I think your estimates are on the low side based upon my experience.

Sorry for the long response but if you want to calculate your real costs, you will need to do the calculations for each of the calibers, both for factory ammo and reloading and then estimate what kind of reloads you will be shooting. Just a caution, I never would have shot the 25,000 rounds I reloaded in the last 4 years if I was shooting factory ammo. I couldn't have afforded it. My reloading "savings" really went into shooting a lot more and resulted in me shooting a lot more accurately.

Your "savings" will depends on what you are buying now and what you will be using to hand load.
If you're mainly plinking, you can keep your reloading costs to a minimum by buying bulk bullets, scrounging brass from the range, and buying whatever powder and primers that work and that are on sale. BUT your estimates of powder use for the .223 are on the low side. Generally I load from 23 to 28 grains of powder per round. For 55 grain bullets, CFE223 starts at 26 grains (269 per pound) while H335 starts at 23.6 grains (293 rounds per pound) - that's a lot less than 1700. For 45ACP, a pound of Unique would give you about 1000 reloads per pound. for 9mm, you'll get about 1250.

If you are loading for accuracy, you probably will be buying the best bullets, good brass, and the best primers and will probably also find whatever powder works best in you gun and buy it regardless of price. That will increase your cost per round but will pay dividends in the accuracy you will see in return.

You'll probably get the biggest cost difference on the .223 versus the pistol reloads unless you are shooting some pretty expensive factory ammo in your hand guns.
I load just about 6000 rounds a year for 7 rifle calibers and 5 pistol calibers.
I have kept complete records of my costs for both factory and hand loads for the last 4 years.

For my rifles, I load only target and match grade bullets so my costs are higher than most and my factory ammo costs (mostly 4 years old) are slightly lower than what you would pay today for most match ammo.

For my .223 loads, my hand load cost is 32.3 cents per round (Lapua brass, Sierra, Berger or Nosler bullets, and Remington Benchrest or CCI #400 primers depending upon bolt action or AR).
By comparison, .223 factory Federal Premium Gold Match 69 and 77 gr factory ammo is over 1.11 a round today so there still is a significant savings for natch ammo.
For all my .223 loads to date, the comparable factory cost is 0.839 per round so the "savings" over 4 years is almost $3,500. All those "savings" go into more ammo to shoot.
My biggest savings come from my .22-250 since there isn't any low cost factory ammo available. The cost difference for that caliber is 92 cents a round with a reloading cost of 33 cents.
Conversely, for the 7.62x39 reloads the cost difference is only 9 cents because of the availability of lots of cheap ammo. However my reloads shoot a lot more accurately than the cheap stuff.
My .308 cost difference is 72 cents and I shoot a boatload of .308s.

Bullets are the biggest single cost.

For the .223, if you go with target brass and shoot 77 grain in 1:7 twist, you'll spend 24 cents a bullet for SMKs and the like. That is by far your single biggest expense in reloading.
But if you choose to shoot bulk grade 55 grain FMJs, your bullet cost and be about 10 cents a round. That choice makes the biggest single difference in cost.

Powder costs from 5.6 to 11.2 cents depending on whether you buy in 8 lb or 1 lb cans and whether you buy the really good stuff that is hard to get.

Brass, can be a no cost if you scrounge brass from the range (but you should keep head stamps segregated if you want accuracy). Even if you buy the expensive stuff like Lapua, brass is not a one time cost since you reuse it multiple times so brass cost is about 3 to 4 cents a round for a .223.
I get over 20 reloads out of Lapua brass with a .223 and about 16-17 with a .308. I only get 8 with the .308 with the lower cost Remington, Winchester, or Federal before the necks start to split.

Primers cost from 2.9 to 3.1 cents for a small rifle primer. CCI #400 cost 2.9 and Remington Benchrest cost 3.1 per round. I buy 5000 at a time so the cost is a bit lower than if you by in smaller quantities.

For my hand guns, I've loaded only about 1/3 of my rounds with higher cost bullets - most are bulk bullets so the cost per hand load is lower. But my factory ammo costs are also pretty low since they were bought years ago and I wasn't buying expensive ammo either.

For pistols, the reloading costs vary from about 18 cents for 9mm and 38 Spls to 24 cents for 357 mags and 45 ACP. 40 S&W cost about 20 cents.
Cost of factory rounds vary so much that you will need to match that against what you are paying now.
For me, the biggest difference was with 357 mags because factory ammo is harder to find at low cost. 9mm is at the opposite end since you can find fairly low cost 9 mm ammo now. Compared to the factory ammo I was buying, I am "saving" from 48 cents to 83 cents per round based upon the factory ammo cost. The hand load cost varies only by 5-6 cents across all 5 calibers I load for. The difference will be in what you are now buying. The cost of reloading for pistols won't vary all that much.