Help with Unknown Italian 1851 Navy

Craig010 · September 2, 2012, 09:05 PM

Hi, Everyone. I picked up a 1851 Navy on GB a couple of days ago and am stumped trying to identify the manufacture. I've found several threads here and on another site, but have yet to find the mark on the heel of my pistol. All the other marks, proofs, and date of manufacture I have accounted for on the pistol. Hoping someone can id this one. It's definitely an Italian and manufactured in 1972 but that's all I've been able to come up with. Thanks, Craig

DPris · September 2, 2012, 09:23 PM

What does it say on the barrel?
Denis

Craig010 · September 2, 2012, 09:34 PM

One side of the barrel is marked 'CAL .36 NAVY MODEL - MADE IN ITALY'. The other side simply states 'BLACK POWDER ONLY'. Here's pictures of both sides of the barrel and another of the overall pistol. These came from the auction site but are pretty good quality photos, I think. Thanks, Craig

Hawg · September 3, 2012, 01:20 AM

My first guess would be ASM but I never saw a mark like that. Look on the bottom barrel flat under the loading lever.

FloridaVeteran · September 3, 2012, 03:42 AM

Craig - not much to add, especially given Hawg's expertise, but it doesn't look like the Uberti markings of that year so ASM seems like a good guesstimate. Don't know what Pietta was doing then, if anything. Main reason I'm posting is that, if you got it at a great price, it looks like a really nice gun. Congrats.

Hawg · September 3, 2012, 09:52 AM

Pietta was doing FAP in a diamond or depending on importer just FAP under the loading lever. This one was made in 76 and it's a double strike.

Craig010 · September 3, 2012, 11:29 AM

Thanks, everyone for the inputs.

Hawg, I took a look under the lever and there is absolutely nothing on the barrel or lever. Only thing on the bottom is the serial number 196XX. Guess I'll go with it being an ASM. Thanks again to everyone. ~Craig

Hawg · September 3, 2012, 01:57 PM

I don't know that it is. That's just a guess on my part.

Fingers McGee · September 3, 2012, 02:32 PM

I've seen the mark before & for the life of me cannot remember who it is. Get hold of Dr Davis at RPRCA [email protected] . He'll know.

Hawg · September 3, 2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Get hold of Dr Davis at RPRCA [email protected] . He'll know.

I should have thought of that. If anybody knows he does.

Craig010 · September 3, 2012, 06:14 PM

Thanks, Fingers. I'm sending him an e-mail next and will let you all know what I hear back. ~Craig

Craig010 · September 3, 2012, 09:50 PM

Okay, I got a response back which amazed me in itself. I never expected a reply that fast when I was asking for assistance. Apparently I got an even better deal than what I had thought. Here is Dr Davis' reply to me:

---------------------------------------------------------
Hello Craig,

You have a very collectable replica black powder revolver. The Logo on the Butt is Investarms of Italy, a smaller manufacturer. The revolver is a replica of the Confederate Schneider & Glassick. No Italian manufacturer or American importer ever marketed this brass frame copy of the Colt 1851 Navy as a Schneider & Glassick, probably because they had no knowledge of such a revolver. Only three original revolvers are known to exist and one of these had a steel frame rather than brass. These were usually marketed as an 1851 Navy which it isn't since no brass frame 1851 Navy Models were ever produced by Colt.

I cannot make out the Date Code in the picture but I would assume it was made in the early to middle 1970's.

There is an unpublished article on the RPRCA web site at: http://rprca.tripod.com/schneider.htm

Hope this helps.

Jim L. Davis
----------------------------------------------------------

I took a look on the linked page and sure enough, about midways down, is the logo. Now to get a new hand and spring in this baby and on the range.

Thanks to everyone for the input and assistance. I think this is going to be a fun forum to hang around. ~Craig

Fingers McGee · September 4, 2012, 12:03 AM

Congrats on a great find Craig. Dr Davis is usually pretty fast in responding to queries.

September 2, 2012, 09:23 PM	#2
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	What does it say on the barrel? Denis

September 3, 2012, 01:20 AM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,380	My first guess would be ASM but I never saw a mark like that. Look on the bottom barrel flat under the loading lever.

September 3, 2012, 03:42 AM	#5
FloridaVeteran Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2012 Location: Central Florida Posts: 399	Craig - not much to add, especially given Hawg's expertise, but it doesn't look like the Uberti markings of that year so ASM seems like a good guesstimate. Don't know what Pietta was doing then, if anything. Main reason I'm posting is that, if you got it at a great price, it looks like a really nice gun. Congrats.

September 3, 2012, 09:52 AM	#6
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,380	Pietta was doing FAP in a diamond or depending on importer just FAP under the loading lever. This one was made in 76 and it's a double strike.

September 3, 2012, 11:29 AM	#7
Craig010 Member Join Date: September 2, 2012 Location: Sierra Vista, AZ Posts: 30	Thanks, everyone for the inputs. Hawg, I took a look under the lever and there is absolutely nothing on the barrel or lever. Only thing on the bottom is the serial number 196XX. Guess I'll go with it being an ASM. Thanks again to everyone. ~Craig

September 3, 2012, 01:57 PM	#8
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,380	I don't know that it is. That's just a guess on my part.

September 3, 2012, 02:32 PM	#9
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	I've seen the mark before & for the life of me cannot remember who it is. Get hold of Dr Davis at RPRCA [email protected] . He'll know.

September 3, 2012, 06:14 PM	#11
Craig010 Member Join Date: September 2, 2012 Location: Sierra Vista, AZ Posts: 30	Thanks, Fingers. I'm sending him an e-mail next and will let you all know what I hear back. ~Craig

September 3, 2012, 09:50 PM	#12
Craig010 Member Join Date: September 2, 2012 Location: Sierra Vista, AZ Posts: 30	Okay, I got a response back which amazed me in itself. I never expected a reply that fast when I was asking for assistance. Apparently I got an even better deal than what I had thought. Here is Dr Davis' reply to me: --------------------------------------------------------- Hello Craig, You have a very collectable replica black powder revolver. The Logo on the Butt is Investarms of Italy, a smaller manufacturer. The revolver is a replica of the Confederate Schneider & Glassick. No Italian manufacturer or American importer ever marketed this brass frame copy of the Colt 1851 Navy as a Schneider & Glassick, probably because they had no knowledge of such a revolver. Only three original revolvers are known to exist and one of these had a steel frame rather than brass. These were usually marketed as an 1851 Navy which it isn't since no brass frame 1851 Navy Models were ever produced by Colt. I cannot make out the Date Code in the picture but I would assume it was made in the early to middle 1970's. There is an unpublished article on the RPRCA web site at: http://rprca.tripod.com/schneider.htm Hope this helps. Jim L. Davis ---------------------------------------------------------- I took a look on the linked page and sure enough, about midways down, is the logo. Now to get a new hand and spring in this baby and on the range. Thanks to everyone for the input and assistance. I think this is going to be a fun forum to hang around. ~Craig

September 4, 2012, 12:03 AM	#13
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Congrats on a great find Craig. Dr Davis is usually pretty fast in responding to queries.