Looking for a Muzzleloader

MikeGunz · July 18, 2012, 07:23 PM

Just recently got into hunting this season(got my first turkey in the spring) any ways looking for a muzzle loader rifle for this coming fall deer season in NH. I pretty much know nothing about them other than a general idea how to load them. I was hoping to spend around $200 for one. Just looking for one that will shoot straight and not blow up in my face. Id like to hear your recommendations Thanks

Doyle · July 18, 2012, 07:40 PM

I think the best "value" gun is the T/C Omega Z5. The Omega comes in several configurations from the very expensive models with camo thumbhole stocs and stainless barrels down to the plane-jane Z5 with a black composite stock and blued barrels. They all operate (and shoot) the same. I've seen them go for as little as $200 brand new at Wallyworld.

Going used in a ML is a possibility but you absolutely have to pay attention to the bore - especially the area just in front of the breech plug. There are too many people out there who have bought a ML, used it for a year without proper cleaning, and ruined the bore with corrosion.

I started out with a CVA Bighorn Magnum. It shot great but was a pain in the ass to clean because of the bolt. I made sure my next two were break/open models. The break-open feature makes cleaning (and I do clean between EVERY shot at the range) much more pleasant.

MikeGunz · July 18, 2012, 08:05 PM

Thanks Ill take a look at them next time I go to walmart. Is there a caliber you prefer for deer? Is the T/C omega a .50?

AC 45-70 · July 18, 2012, 09:41 PM

I use a CVA Buckhorn Magnum and i have never had any problems

Doyle · July 18, 2012, 09:42 PM

There are really only 2 ML calibers in the modern inlines (well, 3 if you count .54 but those are rare). .45 is generally pretty hard to find components for and offers you no advantage except for a tad less recoil. Stick with .50.

od green · July 18, 2012, 09:52 PM

T/C is a good MZ, But also look at Traditions I've had both and they are real shooters, my current is a traditions tracker 209 that is probably 8 years old and requires a drill and a cleaning rod to clean but shoots lights out I've taken deer with it every year . MZ has changed greatly the last few years and T/C, Traditions, and CVA shoot with some of the higher dollar MZ out there.They all require the same maintenance for barrel protection but some make it easier .

bacardisteve · July 19, 2012, 03:56 AM

I just got into ML last year and bought a cheap cva wolf. The accuracy surpised the heck out of me with 250gr powerbelt bullets behind 100grains of triple7.

joshobrien77 · July 19, 2012, 05:36 AM

Bought a TC omega last year with TX scope on it for $200 new from Gander. I love it. Replaced my TC thunder hawk. Accuracy with hornady and power belts was unreal out through 150. Cleans super easy. Honestly though if I would have had the cash I would have got the encore. But for the money the Omega is a shooter!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Doyle · July 19, 2012, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Honestly though if I would have had the cash I would have got the encore. But for the money the Omega is a shooter!

I replaced my Omega with an Encore. I still have yet to work up a load that is as accurate as the Omega. I'm almost wishing I hadn't "upgraded".

Hawg · July 19, 2012, 11:07 AM

Move to Ms and get an H&R Handi Rifle in 45-70.

Wild Bill Bucks · July 19, 2012, 12:50 PM

Doyle,

The encore I own seems to like 90 grains of 777, with 240 grain .44 magnum Hornady hollow points, using CCI 209 primers. I tried about every combination with it, and that seems to be the sweet spot. I have only had it on paper out to 100 yards, but will hold 1 1/2" groups with this load all day.

Mike,

Doyle is telling it right if you look into a used ML. I built a gun cabinet for my front room, and did not want to put any of my rifles in it, as it would be for all to see, so I went down to my local pawn shop to see what they had that I could buy on the cheap, to make the cabinet look good. He told me that since the inlines have come out, he had a pile of side locks in the back that he could not sell, and told me to go get 4 or 5 of them. I went to the back and just reached in the pile and got 5 rifles. The were CVA, Knight, an old Thompson and a couple of walmart kit rifles.
He tried to just give them to me, but I made him take $10.00 for each gun. When I got them home I was glad I hadn't planned to do any shooting with them, because every one of them had a crust in the barrel, and the ignition ports were all but rusted completely closed. But they really look good in my cabinet, and if they get stolen, the thief will have a real surprise in store, if he ever tries to shoot one.

Doyle · July 19, 2012, 05:04 PM

Bill, the sweet spot with my Omega was 100grn of loose 777, a 777 primer, and a 250grn Hornady SST in the low-drag sabot. Easily did 1" at 100ys plus that Hornady SST (same thing as the T/C shockwave) has about as good a BC as you can get in a commercial muzzleloading bullet so it shot much flatter than any other bullet I tried.

thallub · July 19, 2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

I use a CVA Buckhorn Magnum and i have never had any problems

The CVA BuckHorn is as accurate and serviceable as guns costing three or four times the price. i recommend this gun.

tws92E05 · July 19, 2012, 06:52 PM

Bought a CVA Wolf last year to try a ML on the cheap. I was really suprised with how accurate it was. At 100 yards it is just as good as any of my centerfires. Shot several hogs with it last year and plan on hunting mostly with it this coming season.

Doyle · July 19, 2012, 08:26 PM

Quote:

The CVA BuckHorn is as accurate and serviceable as guns costing three or four times the price. i recommend this gun.

I thought they discontinued those things a decade ago. Like I said earlier, that was my first ML. Very accurate but I would NEVER get another bolt-action ML again even if someone gave it to me.

arcticap · July 19, 2012, 10:43 PM

I like to shop for BP guns that are on sale or at a bargain price because they usually have comparable quality. Plus the cost of the extra accessories needed to shoot adds up quickly. The TC models can be better but are often more expensive and more difficult to find on sale for under $200.
The Traditions website has a "Special Offers" section listed at the top of their home page.
Right now their special offers include several different Buckstalkers which are much like their popular Pursuit break actions except that this model has a 24" barrel instead of a 26", and it doesn't have an accelerator breech plug that's removable by hand.

1. They have a blue barrel Buckstalker with a nickeled receiver and green stock that is now priced at $139 compared to the all blue model that costs $199 at Cabela's:

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/pr...d1356771117a0b

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...3Bcat104701680

2. Black stock with blue barrel Buckstalker for $139:

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/pr...d1356771117a0b

3. Black stock with blue barrel Buckstalker with 3-9X32 scope for $149:

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/pr...d1356771117a0b

4. And they have an all nickel Buckstalker model with a camo stock for $189:

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/pr...d1356771117a0b

They also have other many other good deals on their specials page:

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/sp...d1356771117a0b

If the links stop working simply go to their home page and click on the Special Offers tab near the top of the page:

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/in...d1356771117a0b

Shipping will add extra to the cost but most folks will be able to make up for some of it by not paying any state sales tax.

orangello · July 20, 2012, 03:53 PM

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/pr...4be2b2718df3a2

Just bought one of these more traditionalish BP rifles; i think it was $300 with shipping (shipped to my office, didn't want it sitting on the porch all lonely). If you want more fun than just an extended season, you might like the old-school type better.

I found no defects in this closeout item, but haven't gotten to shoot it yet.

Quote:

Move to Ms and get an H&R Handi Rifle in 45-70.

Both of my nephews have something like that in .35whelen.

They just want more deer sausage; i'm a vegetarian who will have to give away whatever i kill; maybe that is the difference.

a7mmnut · July 20, 2012, 04:36 PM

If you've got a Mossberg 12 ga., you can get a brand new barrel for just a little over $100. That's hard to beat. -7-

Hawg · July 20, 2012, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Both of my nephews have something like that in .35whelen. They just want more deer sausage; i'm a vegetarian who will have to give away whatever i kill; maybe that is the difference.

I almost bought a Buffalo Classic in 38-55 but my 30-30, 44-40, 30-06 and 7MM Mauser already have enough competition during gun season. My Hawken gets most of the hunts during primitive weapons, my P53 gets to go now and then. I'm not going to stoop to centerfires during primitive weapons season.

FrontierGander · July 21, 2012, 02:01 AM

CVA Wolf. Simply one of the best packages you can get for under $200 and will shoot with guns 3 or 4 times the money. Most times even out shoot them.

North East Redneck · July 21, 2012, 08:13 AM

I have a CVA .50 inline. Use it during shotgun deer season. 100 grains loose 777 and a 777 primer. I usually use a 295 grain hollow point Power Belt. Thing shoots well, have had no problems in the eight or nine years I've had it.

Bill Akins · July 21, 2012, 04:51 PM

Since you're looking for a muzzle loading rifle, check out the CVA (Connecticut Vally Arms) sidelock, traditional style, .50 caliber mountain rifle at any of the auction sites (not sure, but I don't think they are currently manufactured anymore but could be wrong about that).

I have one of those and so does a shooting buddy of mine. They have double set triggers so you can choose to use the trigger non set (for quick snap shooting) or you can "set" the trigger to a hair trigger for maximum accuracy by functioning the 2nd trigger to "set" the first one to hair trigger status. You can also adjust the trigger to whatever amount of sensitivity you want via adjustment screws in the trigger group.

With its very long barrel it is so accurate it frequently outshoots modern rifles accuracy wise. Definitely one you might want to check out. Remember when searching, it isn't listed as a Hawken, or long rifle, but as the "mountain" rifle.
You can't go wrong with that one. I found my shooting buddy one on Guns America auctions for about $225.00
It had the brass patch box built in and with an unusual add on rear tang ladder peep sight. But most of the ones you will find don't have that type of sight and are like mine with just the regular rear sight which works just fine.
In my opinion it is the best black powder traditional style rifle that CVA ever made.

.

Noreaster · July 22, 2012, 08:55 PM

I just picked up a T/C Impact at Kittery Trading post for $234.00. Love it and it's very easy to clean.

HondaCowboy82 · August 1, 2012, 04:35 PM

I currently have two Knights. One is a black LK93 that i have owned since 1998 with a 3-9x40 and 209 conversion. .50 cal

the other is a MK-85 Stainless with a 4x32 Simmons and 209 in .54 cal.

I prefer knight as they have the twin safeties and Green Mountain barrels. I would sell the Stainless if interested.

July 18, 2012, 07:23 PM	#1
MikeGunz Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2011 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 195	Looking for a Muzzleloader Just recently got into hunting this season(got my first turkey in the spring) any ways looking for a muzzle loader rifle for this coming fall deer season in NH. I pretty much know nothing about them other than a general idea how to load them. I was hoping to spend around $200 for one. Just looking for one that will shoot straight and not blow up in my face. Id like to hear your recommendations Thanks

July 19, 2012, 03:56 AM	#7
bacardisteve Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2006 Location: West virginia Posts: 656	I just got into ML last year and bought a cheap cva wolf. The accuracy surpised the heck out of me with 250gr powerbelt bullets behind 100grains of triple7. __________________ Kill em all and let God sort em out! USAF

July 19, 2012, 10:43 PM	#16
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	I like to shop for BP guns that are on sale or at a bargain price because they usually have comparable quality. Plus the cost of the extra accessories needed to shoot adds up quickly. The TC models can be better but are often more expensive and more difficult to find on sale for under $200. The Traditions website has a "Special Offers" section listed at the top of their home page. Right now their special offers include several different Buckstalkers which are much like their popular Pursuit break actions except that this model has a 24" barrel instead of a 26", and it doesn't have an accelerator breech plug that's removable by hand. 1. They have a blue barrel Buckstalker with a nickeled receiver and green stock that is now priced at $139 compared to the all blue model that costs $199 at Cabela's: http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/pr...d1356771117a0b http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...3Bcat104701680 2. Black stock with blue barrel Buckstalker for $139: http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/pr...d1356771117a0b 3. Black stock with blue barrel Buckstalker with 3-9X32 scope for $149: http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/pr...d1356771117a0b 4. And they have an all nickel Buckstalker model with a camo stock for $189: http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/pr...d1356771117a0b They also have other many other good deals on their specials page: http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/sp...d1356771117a0b If the links stop working simply go to their home page and click on the Special Offers tab near the top of the page: http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/in...d1356771117a0b Shipping will add extra to the cost but most folks will be able to make up for some of it by not paying any state sales tax. Last edited by arcticap; July 21, 2012 at 03:08 PM.

July 21, 2012, 08:13 AM	#21
North East Redneck Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2012 Location: Berkshire Hills Posts: 741	I have a CVA .50 inline. Use it during shotgun deer season. 100 grains loose 777 and a 777 primer. I usually use a 295 grain hollow point Power Belt. Thing shoots well, have had no problems in the eight or nine years I've had it. __________________ NRA Patron Member SAF Life Member GOAL Member

July 21, 2012, 04:51 PM	#22
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	Since you're looking for a muzzle loading rifle, check out the CVA (Connecticut Vally Arms) sidelock, traditional style, .50 caliber mountain rifle at any of the auction sites (not sure, but I don't think they are currently manufactured anymore but could be wrong about that). I have one of those and so does a shooting buddy of mine. They have double set triggers so you can choose to use the trigger non set (for quick snap shooting) or you can "set" the trigger to a hair trigger for maximum accuracy by functioning the 2nd trigger to "set" the first one to hair trigger status. You can also adjust the trigger to whatever amount of sensitivity you want via adjustment screws in the trigger group. With its very long barrel it is so accurate it frequently outshoots modern rifles accuracy wise. Definitely one you might want to check out. Remember when searching, it isn't listed as a Hawken, or long rifle, but as the "mountain" rifle. You can't go wrong with that one. I found my shooting buddy one on Guns America auctions for about $225.00 It had the brass patch box built in and with an unusual add on rear tang ladder peep sight. But most of the ones you will find don't have that type of sight and are like mine with just the regular rear sight which works just fine. In my opinion it is the best black powder traditional style rifle that CVA ever made. . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

July 18, 2012, 07:40 PM	#2
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	I think the best "value" gun is the T/C Omega Z5. The Omega comes in several configurations from the very expensive models with camo thumbhole stocs and stainless barrels down to the plane-jane Z5 with a black composite stock and blued barrels. They all operate (and shoot) the same. I've seen them go for as little as $200 brand new at Wallyworld. Going used in a ML is a possibility but you absolutely have to pay attention to the bore - especially the area just in front of the breech plug. There are too many people out there who have bought a ML, used it for a year without proper cleaning, and ruined the bore with corrosion. I started out with a CVA Bighorn Magnum. It shot great but was a pain in the ass to clean because of the bolt. I made sure my next two were break/open models. The break-open feature makes cleaning (and I do clean between EVERY shot at the range) much more pleasant.

July 18, 2012, 08:05 PM	#3
MikeGunz Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2011 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 195	Thanks Ill take a look at them next time I go to walmart. Is there a caliber you prefer for deer? Is the T/C omega a .50?

July 18, 2012, 09:41 PM	#4
AC 45-70 Member Join Date: July 18, 2012 Posts: 29	I use a CVA Buckhorn Magnum and i have never had any problems

July 18, 2012, 09:42 PM	#5
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	There are really only 2 ML calibers in the modern inlines (well, 3 if you count .54 but those are rare). .45 is generally pretty hard to find components for and offers you no advantage except for a tad less recoil. Stick with .50.

July 18, 2012, 09:52 PM	#6
od green Member Join Date: March 28, 2009 Location: Viola DE Posts: 22	T/C is a good MZ, But also look at Traditions I've had both and they are real shooters, my current is a traditions tracker 209 that is probably 8 years old and requires a drill and a cleaning rod to clean but shoots lights out I've taken deer with it every year . MZ has changed greatly the last few years and T/C, Traditions, and CVA shoot with some of the higher dollar MZ out there.They all require the same maintenance for barrel protection but some make it easier .

July 19, 2012, 05:36 AM	#8
joshobrien77 Member Join Date: June 30, 2012 Posts: 49	Bought a TC omega last year with TX scope on it for $200 new from Gander. I love it. Replaced my TC thunder hawk. Accuracy with hornady and power belts was unreal out through 150. Cleans super easy. Honestly though if I would have had the cash I would have got the encore. But for the money the Omega is a shooter! Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

July 19, 2012, 11:07 AM	#10
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,376	Move to Ms and get an H&R Handi Rifle in 45-70.

July 19, 2012, 12:50 PM	#11
Wild Bill Bucks Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Location: Southeastern Oklahoma, Next door to Sasquatch Posts: 1,266	Doyle, The encore I own seems to like 90 grains of 777, with 240 grain .44 magnum Hornady hollow points, using CCI 209 primers. I tried about every combination with it, and that seems to be the sweet spot. I have only had it on paper out to 100 yards, but will hold 1 1/2" groups with this load all day. Mike, Doyle is telling it right if you look into a used ML. I built a gun cabinet for my front room, and did not want to put any of my rifles in it, as it would be for all to see, so I went down to my local pawn shop to see what they had that I could buy on the cheap, to make the cabinet look good. He told me that since the inlines have come out, he had a pile of side locks in the back that he could not sell, and told me to go get 4 or 5 of them. I went to the back and just reached in the pile and got 5 rifles. The were CVA, Knight, an old Thompson and a couple of walmart kit rifles. He tried to just give them to me, but I made him take $10.00 for each gun. When I got them home I was glad I hadn't planned to do any shooting with them, because every one of them had a crust in the barrel, and the ignition ports were all but rusted completely closed. But they really look good in my cabinet, and if they get stolen, the thief will have a real surprise in store, if he ever tries to shoot one.

July 19, 2012, 05:04 PM	#12
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Bill, the sweet spot with my Omega was 100grn of loose 777, a 777 primer, and a 250grn Hornady SST in the low-drag sabot. Easily did 1" at 100ys plus that Hornady SST (same thing as the T/C shockwave) has about as good a BC as you can get in a commercial muzzleloading bullet so it shot much flatter than any other bullet I tried.

July 19, 2012, 06:52 PM	#14
tws92E05 Member Join Date: September 17, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 40	Bought a CVA Wolf last year to try a ML on the cheap. I was really suprised with how accurate it was. At 100 yards it is just as good as any of my centerfires. Shot several hogs with it last year and plan on hunting mostly with it this coming season.

July 20, 2012, 04:36 PM	#18
a7mmnut Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: NC Foothills Posts: 1,150	If you've got a Mossberg 12 ga., you can get a brand new barrel for just a little over $100. That's hard to beat. -7-

July 21, 2012, 02:01 AM	#20
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	CVA Wolf. Simply one of the best packages you can get for under $200 and will shoot with guns 3 or 4 times the money. Most times even out shoot them.

July 22, 2012, 08:55 PM	#23
Noreaster Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2011 Location: New England Posts: 1,449	I just picked up a T/C Impact at Kittery Trading post for $234.00. Love it and it's very easy to clean.

August 1, 2012, 04:35 PM	#24
HondaCowboy82 Member Join Date: November 20, 2005 Posts: 80	Knight I currently have two Knights. One is a black LK93 that i have owned since 1998 with a 3-9x40 and 209 conversion. .50 cal the other is a MK-85 Stainless with a 4x32 Simmons and 209 in .54 cal. I prefer knight as they have the twin safeties and Green Mountain barrels. I would sell the Stainless if interested.