rcbs rifle dies ?

rebs · January 20, 2012, 04:23 PM

does rcbs make a carbide die set for the 300 savage ?

jaguarxk120 · January 20, 2012, 04:34 PM

Carbide dies are made only for straight wall case's, the exception is Dillon who makes a bottle neck die for 223, and I think 308. The 300 Savage is not that popular cartridge and die makers generaly make only a few die sets a year.

To have a carbide die made for the 300 Savage would cost way too much, and just so you don't have to lube cases.

3kgt2nv · January 20, 2012, 04:43 PM

dillon also makes them for the 50 bmg.

even with a carbide die on a rifle i would still lightly lube every couple of cases with the rifle dies.

jaguarxk120 · January 20, 2012, 05:10 PM

I didn't know about the 50BMG. Looked up die set prices : 223-$152.95; 308-$158.95 and the whopper- 50 BMG $799.95

Please note those prices are for Dillons carbide die sets. If you want a custom die set made the cost would be 3-4 times that price even if they would make it.

3kgt2nv · January 20, 2012, 05:41 PM

the 799 for the 50 carbine die is for the sizing die only.

brickeyee · January 20, 2012, 05:44 PM

Carbide dies for bottle necked cases still require lubrication also.

They are for high volume reloading (often commercial) that can wear out steel dies.

David Wile · January 20, 2012, 06:06 PM

Hey folks,

Brickeyee stated that bottle necked carbide dies are for high volume use for companies that produce commercial ammo in ammounts that will wear out regular dies. I have seen that premise stated by quite a few others in the past few years, and it just does not seem to make sense to me.

I have about six or eight die sets that are over 50 years old now, and they still appear to be working the same as when they were new. Regular die sets obviously last a very, very long time and produce a lot of finished product. If a company was going to produce ammo commercially, I cannot imagine they would be buying special dies from RCBS. I would think with all their tooling and machinery, they would be making their own dies.

If Frank and Joe wanted to start making commercial ammo in their back yard shop, I can imagine they would not be making their own dies. I can see where they might be using die sets from RCBS. However, I cannot see how Frank and Joe's newly started back yard ammo factory would spend the big bucks on carbide die in bottle neck calibers. It just does not make sense to me. I am also sure that Remington and Winchester do not buy die sets for their commercial machines from RCBS.

If I would be correct in my premise that RCBS bottle neck carbide dies are not likely to be used for commercial use, then to whom are these dies targeted for sale? The idea of their being intended for commercial use does not make sense to me, but I also frankly admit I do not know what does make sense. Any other ideas?

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

jaguarxk120 · January 20, 2012, 07:27 PM

It is my understanding that RCBS does not make carbide dies for bottle neck case's.

If I'm wrong please show the stock numbers and current prices for the die sets. Thank You

David Wile · January 20, 2012, 09:10 PM

Hey Jag,

I have no idea of part numbers for RCBS or any other brand of bottle neck carbide dies, and I have never even bothered to look any of them up. I simply heard about them on the forums for a number of years now and assumed RCBS made them.

I can remember maybe 40 or so years ago when I first bought carbide pistol dies. I thought they were the greatest thing in reloading at the time because I did not have to lube the cases. I also remember thinking it would really be great if they could make bottleneck rifle dies in carbide so I would not have to lube bottle neck cases. Nice idea, but no such luck so far I guess. Probably not in my lifetime.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

WIL TERRY · January 21, 2012, 02:50 PM

The ONLY thing carbide dies in the bottleneck calibers do it lengthen die life considerable. ALL brass going through them MUST be lubricated. ALL the dies in an ammunition loading plant are carbide. At the ammunition companies all brass being loaded is spotlessly clean, primed, lubricated through the ENTIRE loading process, and it then cleaned afterwards. Primers and propellents are NEVER within a furlong of each other and quite often different buildings are used for the different procesess needed to assemble all the cartridges.
Personally, after 850,000 rounds loaded since 1960 I lube all cases going through the carbide pistol dies as it cuts the work load AT LEAST 75%. They are then re-cleaned and re-inspected before priming, powdering, seating the new projectile, and in most cases crimping afterwards. There are NO shortcuts to doing it right, guys.
And so it goes...

jaguarxk120 · January 21, 2012, 06:48 PM

Dave thanks for the reply on the dies.

But the question is why does the original poster want carbide dies in 300 Savage? The ammo is still off the shelf, but there is not a high demand for the stuff. Not like 308/30-30/223/30-06 and others.

David Wile · January 21, 2012, 09:07 PM

Hey Jag,

All I see is REB's original post where he simply asks if RCBS makes a carbide die set in 300 Savage. He doesn't say why he is asking, but I would guess that he might be fairly new to reloading and might have the same idea I had 40 years ago - thinking you would not have to lube bottleneck cases if they made carbide dies for them like they did for pistols.

If only you could size bottleneck cases without lube, I still think that would be a great step forward for reloading. I know some folks still use lube with their carbide pistol dies and say it makes sizing so much easier. I never did mind sizing without lube in carbide dies, and I found the idea of skipping lubing and removal of lube a great benefit. Like I said earlier, though, I doubt I will live long enough to see the time when we will have carbide dies for bottleneck cases and not have to lube them.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

rebs · January 21, 2012, 10:38 PM

Yes thats what I wanted to know, I have not found carbide dies for 300 savage. I am new to reloading so to speak as I was a reloader 35 years ago and just started getting back into it.

January 20, 2012, 04:23 PM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	rcbs rifle dies ? does rcbs make a carbide die set for the 300 savage ?

January 20, 2012, 04:34 PM	#2
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,626	Carbide dies are made only for straight wall case's, the exception is Dillon who makes a bottle neck die for 223, and I think 308. The 300 Savage is not that popular cartridge and die makers generaly make only a few die sets a year. To have a carbide die made for the 300 Savage would cost way too much, and just so you don't have to lube cases.

January 20, 2012, 04:43 PM	#3
3kgt2nv Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: hudson valley NY Posts: 517	dillon also makes them for the 50 bmg. even with a carbide die on a rifle i would still lightly lube every couple of cases with the rifle dies.

January 20, 2012, 05:10 PM	#4
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,626	I didn't know about the 50BMG. Looked up die set prices : 223-$152.95; 308-$158.95 and the whopper- 50 BMG $799.95 Please note those prices are for Dillons carbide die sets. If you want a custom die set made the cost would be 3-4 times that price even if they would make it.

January 20, 2012, 05:41 PM	#5
3kgt2nv Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: hudson valley NY Posts: 517	the 799 for the 50 carbine die is for the sizing die only.

January 20, 2012, 05:44 PM	#6
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	Carbide dies for bottle necked cases still require lubrication also. They are for high volume reloading (often commercial) that can wear out steel dies.

January 20, 2012, 06:06 PM	#7
David Wile Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Posts: 585	Hey folks, Brickeyee stated that bottle necked carbide dies are for high volume use for companies that produce commercial ammo in ammounts that will wear out regular dies. I have seen that premise stated by quite a few others in the past few years, and it just does not seem to make sense to me. I have about six or eight die sets that are over 50 years old now, and they still appear to be working the same as when they were new. Regular die sets obviously last a very, very long time and produce a lot of finished product. If a company was going to produce ammo commercially, I cannot imagine they would be buying special dies from RCBS. I would think with all their tooling and machinery, they would be making their own dies. If Frank and Joe wanted to start making commercial ammo in their back yard shop, I can imagine they would not be making their own dies. I can see where they might be using die sets from RCBS. However, I cannot see how Frank and Joe's newly started back yard ammo factory would spend the big bucks on carbide die in bottle neck calibers. It just does not make sense to me. I am also sure that Remington and Winchester do not buy die sets for their commercial machines from RCBS. If I would be correct in my premise that RCBS bottle neck carbide dies are not likely to be used for commercial use, then to whom are these dies targeted for sale? The idea of their being intended for commercial use does not make sense to me, but I also frankly admit I do not know what does make sense. Any other ideas? Best wishes, Dave Wile

January 20, 2012, 07:27 PM	#8
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,626	It is my understanding that RCBS does not make carbide dies for bottle neck case's. If I'm wrong please show the stock numbers and current prices for the die sets. Thank You

January 20, 2012, 09:10 PM	#9
David Wile Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Posts: 585	Hey Jag, I have no idea of part numbers for RCBS or any other brand of bottle neck carbide dies, and I have never even bothered to look any of them up. I simply heard about them on the forums for a number of years now and assumed RCBS made them. I can remember maybe 40 or so years ago when I first bought carbide pistol dies. I thought they were the greatest thing in reloading at the time because I did not have to lube the cases. I also remember thinking it would really be great if they could make bottleneck rifle dies in carbide so I would not have to lube bottle neck cases. Nice idea, but no such luck so far I guess. Probably not in my lifetime. Best wishes, Dave Wile

January 21, 2012, 02:50 PM	#10
WIL TERRY Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2000 Location: BLACK HILLS Posts: 1,322	The ONLY thing carbide dies in the bottleneck calibers do it lengthen die life considerable. ALL brass going through them MUST be lubricated. ALL the dies in an ammunition loading plant are carbide. At the ammunition companies all brass being loaded is spotlessly clean, primed, lubricated through the ENTIRE loading process, and it then cleaned afterwards. Primers and propellents are NEVER within a furlong of each other and quite often different buildings are used for the different procesess needed to assemble all the cartridges. Personally, after 850,000 rounds loaded since 1960 I lube all cases going through the carbide pistol dies as it cuts the work load AT LEAST 75%. They are then re-cleaned and re-inspected before priming, powdering, seating the new projectile, and in most cases crimping afterwards. There are NO shortcuts to doing it right, guys. And so it goes...

January 21, 2012, 06:48 PM	#11
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,626	Dave thanks for the reply on the dies. But the question is why does the original poster want carbide dies in 300 Savage? The ammo is still off the shelf, but there is not a high demand for the stuff. Not like 308/30-30/223/30-06 and others.

January 21, 2012, 09:07 PM	#12
David Wile Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Posts: 585	Hey Jag, All I see is REB's original post where he simply asks if RCBS makes a carbide die set in 300 Savage. He doesn't say why he is asking, but I would guess that he might be fairly new to reloading and might have the same idea I had 40 years ago - thinking you would not have to lube bottleneck cases if they made carbide dies for them like they did for pistols. If only you could size bottleneck cases without lube, I still think that would be a great step forward for reloading. I know some folks still use lube with their carbide pistol dies and say it makes sizing so much easier. I never did mind sizing without lube in carbide dies, and I found the idea of skipping lubing and removal of lube a great benefit. Like I said earlier, though, I doubt I will live long enough to see the time when we will have carbide dies for bottleneck cases and not have to lube them. Best wishes, Dave Wile

January 21, 2012, 10:38 PM	#13
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Yes thats what I wanted to know, I have not found carbide dies for 300 savage. I am new to reloading so to speak as I was a reloader 35 years ago and just started getting back into it.