Spiller and Burr genuine parts and repairs

Wheeler22 · June 4, 2011, 04:24 PM

Any suggestion on restoration of a genuine Spiller with a couple minor issues (loading lever catch, cylinder pin)?
http://historical.HA.com/common/sear...ve-notice&FC=0

**Mal H** · June 4, 2011, 06:31 PM

I'm confused. What does a link to an auction sale have to do with the questions you asked?

Hawg · June 4, 2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

I'm confused. What does a link to an auction sale have to do with the questions you asked?

He wants to buy the one at auction and fix it up.

madcratebuilder · June 5, 2011, 10:44 AM

Personally I would not alter a 10k S&B, leave it as is and hope it becomes worth the 10K asking price some day.

arcticap · June 5, 2011, 11:36 PM

The S&B in the auction link has the loading lever catch.
I think that Wheeler22 just wanted to show us an example of the original model that he was asking about.

Hawg · June 6, 2011, 08:33 AM

Quote:

The S&B in the auction link has the loading lever catch.

Read the description.
" The loading lever catch seat is an old incorrect brass replacement "

madcratebuilder · June 6, 2011, 09:03 AM

Good luck finding any original parts, maybe use an old Colt part. Apparently the price on these has gone up in the past five or six years, this was cheap by comparison.

arcticap · June 6, 2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Read the description.
" The loading lever catch seat is an old incorrect brass replacement "

Thanks, I missed that.

Wheeler22 · June 7, 2011, 09:57 AM

Thanks everyone for your help. From everything I have read in the books on this pistol (this new unknown #977 above link) this seems to be a genuine second model, all matching, Macon assembled from mostly Atlanta made parts.

I posted here in hopes of finding a reference to parts which were salvaged from pistols which are beyond repair, just a screw washer, thumb piece of the cylinder pin, and loading lever catch. This piece of history appears to be 100% authentic, and it would be great to keep it that way.

Hawg · June 7, 2011, 11:54 AM

I'd be concerned about where it's been hiding and how it came to be up for sale?
I'm with MCB, thats a lot of money even for a rare bird. I also doubt you're going find any original parts specifically for a S&B.

arcticap · June 7, 2011, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheeler22

just a screw washer, thumb piece of the cylinder pin, and loading lever catch.

Considering the price of the gun, I wonder how much those missing parts would be worth to the owner?
I also wonder what how much those missing parts impact the price of the gun i.e. - what's the difference in the gun's value with and without those parts?

Southron · June 8, 2011, 07:13 PM

I doubt you are going to find any original replacement parts. What makes you think that the brass loading lever catch is a replacement? It could be original to the arm.

I would contact some of the auction houses and ask them which gunsmiths they recommend for restoration work. Then contact those gunsmiths and ask for quotes.

Wheeler22 · June 8, 2011, 09:26 PM

"originally posted by Southron: What makes you think that the brass loading lever catch is a replacement? It could be original to the arm."

Thank you Southron - yes an "old incorrect brass replacement" could certainly have been made on the field, or even be original considering the dire manufacturing circumstances.

bedbugbilly · June 8, 2011, 09:45 PM

Gosh, golly, gee . . . you mean those things are rare? And to think we used to have a half dozen or so a hangin' on nails out in the barn!

I'm with the rest of you - this seems like a pretty stiff price - especially their projected value. But, there are fools with more money than brains. Just imagine though, if somebody did have some "spare original parts" laying around in their parts box . . . only to never know what they fit? I'm with the others on this one . . . leave it as it is and don't try to put "new" old parts on her . . she's earned every nick and dent she's got.

Wheeler22 · June 9, 2011, 01:41 AM

Thank you - point taken bedbugbilly.

Comparing the "actual sold prices" of comparable S&B's :
This one at $38,837.50
http://historical.ha.com/c/item.zx?s...74&lotNo=72393
This one at $41,825.00 :
http://historical.ha.com/c/item.zx?s...42&lotNo=25535

Is this a bargain at $15,000?:
http://historical.HA.com/common/sear...ve-notice&FC=0

bedbugbilly · June 9, 2011, 08:16 AM

Wheeler - now you're point is well taken!

Thanks for posting those prices. I guess what it boils down to is "supply and demand" like anything else. A lot pf pieces have been bought and sold over the years on the collector's market. I can remember pieces that I saw when I first started collecting close to 50 years ago that I knew the individuals who had them in their private collections - years later they'd "surface" (usually after the collector died and his collection was being liquidated) and a whole new generation of collectors would go "wow - what a find". I have collected many items that I originally bought cheap or very reasonable and years laer, when I sold them, was amazed at what an individual would pay for them - I guess you call it inflation? At any rate, when I see a revolver like you are talking about of the other originals that are pictured here, my mind doesn't so much focus on "value" - I look at the "imperfections" and just wish that the piece could talk and tell us what its life was like and where ti traveled. I know I'll never be able to affore an original S & B, but I have to tell you that the several threads that have been on here lately have sure peaked my interest to "add one to my herd" - a repro that I can put my own nicks and scratches on that someone a 150 yers from now might marvel at. Thanks for sharing this with us - it's been very educational and interesting! Kindest regards!

Hawg · June 9, 2011, 10:01 AM

Yeah, 150 years from now all these repros are gonna throw a monkey wrench into collectors butts.

Southron · June 9, 2011, 10:58 AM

Many decades ago a well known collector purchased a Leech & Rigdon at a gun show. When he returned home, as was his custom, he took his newest treasure apart to clean. That is when he discovered that all the screws had METRIC THREADS!

Remember the Iron Clad Rule:

"If it were not for the Spanish-War and the replica Italian arms industry, there would be a severe shortage of Original Confederate relics today."

arcticap · June 9, 2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Is this a bargain at $15,000?:
http://historical.HA.com/common/sear...ve-notice&FC=0

O bidders, 18 members tracking, $20,000 - $30,000 estimated selling price plus a 19.5% buyers premium.
Buying it for $15,000 might be a bargain.
I think that bidding will raise the selling price over $20,000 and that whatever amount that it ends up selling for will be the fair market value for its condition.
It could end up being somewhat of a bargain but more than likely it will end up being a "fair" price after including the 19.5%.
Then it might be looked at as being more of a bargain in 10 years.
It would be desirable if the gun could be examined in person before bidding. Then maybe it would talk to you a little bit!

gyvel · June 10, 2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Yeah, 150 years from now all these repros are gonna throw a monkey wrench into collectors butts.

150 years from now, nobody in this country will be able to own guns.

June 4, 2011, 04:24 PM	#1
Wheeler22 Junior Member Join Date: June 4, 2011 Posts: 4	Spiller and Burr genuine parts and repairs Any suggestion on restoration of a genuine Spiller with a couple minor issues (loading lever catch, cylinder pin)? http://historical.HA.com/common/sear...ve-notice&FC=0

June 8, 2011, 07:13 PM	#12
Southron Member Join Date: November 28, 2009 Posts: 40	Replacement Parts I doubt you are going to find any original replacement parts. What makes you think that the brass loading lever catch is a replacement? It could be original to the arm. I would contact some of the auction houses and ask them which gunsmiths they recommend for restoration work. Then contact those gunsmiths and ask for quotes.

June 8, 2011, 09:45 PM	#14
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,290	Gosh, golly, gee . . . you mean those things are rare? And to think we used to have a half dozen or so a hangin' on nails out in the barn! I'm with the rest of you - this seems like a pretty stiff price - especially their projected value. But, there are fools with more money than brains. Just imagine though, if somebody did have some "spare original parts" laying around in their parts box . . . only to never know what they fit? I'm with the others on this one . . . leave it as it is and don't try to put "new" old parts on her . . she's earned every nick and dent she's got. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

June 9, 2011, 08:16 AM	#16
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,290	Wheeler - now you're point is well taken! Thanks for posting those prices. I guess what it boils down to is "supply and demand" like anything else. A lot pf pieces have been bought and sold over the years on the collector's market. I can remember pieces that I saw when I first started collecting close to 50 years ago that I knew the individuals who had them in their private collections - years later they'd "surface" (usually after the collector died and his collection was being liquidated) and a whole new generation of collectors would go "wow - what a find". I have collected many items that I originally bought cheap or very reasonable and years laer, when I sold them, was amazed at what an individual would pay for them - I guess you call it inflation? At any rate, when I see a revolver like you are talking about of the other originals that are pictured here, my mind doesn't so much focus on "value" - I look at the "imperfections" and just wish that the piece could talk and tell us what its life was like and where ti traveled. I know I'll never be able to affore an original S & B, but I have to tell you that the several threads that have been on here lately have sure peaked my interest to "add one to my herd" - a repro that I can put my own nicks and scratches on that someone a 150 yers from now might marvel at. Thanks for sharing this with us - it's been very educational and interesting! Kindest regards! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

June 9, 2011, 10:58 AM	#18
Southron Member Join Date: November 28, 2009 Posts: 40	You Have to Have Doubts Many decades ago a well known collector purchased a Leech & Rigdon at a gun show. When he returned home, as was his custom, he took his newest treasure apart to clean. That is when he discovered that all the screws had METRIC THREADS! Remember the Iron Clad Rule: "If it were not for the Spanish-War and the replica Italian arms industry, there would be a severe shortage of Original Confederate relics today."

June 4, 2011, 06:31 PM	#2
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 17,066	I'm confused. What does a link to an auction sale have to do with the questions you asked?

June 5, 2011, 10:44 AM	#4
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Personally I would not alter a 10k S&B, leave it as is and hope it becomes worth the 10K asking price some day.

June 5, 2011, 11:36 PM	#5
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	The S&B in the auction link has the loading lever catch. I think that Wheeler22 just wanted to show us an example of the original model that he was asking about.

June 6, 2011, 09:03 AM	#7
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Good luck finding any original parts, maybe use an old Colt part. Apparently the price on these has gone up in the past five or six years, this was cheap by comparison.

June 7, 2011, 09:57 AM	#9
Wheeler22 Junior Member Join Date: June 4, 2011 Posts: 4	Thanks everyone for your help. From everything I have read in the books on this pistol (this new unknown #977 above link) this seems to be a genuine second model, all matching, Macon assembled from mostly Atlanta made parts. I posted here in hopes of finding a reference to parts which were salvaged from pistols which are beyond repair, just a screw washer, thumb piece of the cylinder pin, and loading lever catch. This piece of history appears to be 100% authentic, and it would be great to keep it that way.

June 7, 2011, 11:54 AM	#10
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,376	I'd be concerned about where it's been hiding and how it came to be up for sale? I'm with MCB, thats a lot of money even for a rare bird. I also doubt you're going find any original parts specifically for a S&B.

June 8, 2011, 09:26 PM	#13
Wheeler22 Junior Member Join Date: June 4, 2011 Posts: 4	"originally posted by Southron: What makes you think that the brass loading lever catch is a replacement? It could be original to the arm." Thank you Southron - yes an "old incorrect brass replacement" could certainly have been made on the field, or even be original considering the dire manufacturing circumstances.

June 9, 2011, 01:41 AM	#15
Wheeler22 Junior Member Join Date: June 4, 2011 Posts: 4	Thank you - point taken bedbugbilly. Comparing the "actual sold prices" of comparable S&B's : This one at $38,837.50 http://historical.ha.com/c/item.zx?s...74&lotNo=72393 This one at $41,825.00 : http://historical.ha.com/c/item.zx?s...42&lotNo=25535 Is this a bargain at $15,000?: http://historical.HA.com/common/sear...ve-notice&FC=0

June 9, 2011, 10:01 AM	#17
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,376	Yeah, 150 years from now all these repros are gonna throw a monkey wrench into collectors butts.