Unique -38 sp-.357 ?

deleterman · May 7, 2011, 10:10 PM

Hi all, just a quick queston-I have a S&W 686 357 mag with a 83/8" barrel want to shoot both 38sp and357 mag cases useing Unique powder -148gr HBWC I'm looking to run about 850-900 fps in both rounds, how does 4.0grs of Unique sound? to start with? I have lost all my notes on this load as i have loaded this round befor.any help out there ? thanks.H.B.

gspman · May 8, 2011, 12:31 AM

Deleterman Well i looked at the manuals and info i have and i could not find info with unique and that bullet.I will tell you what i tried and it did not work.Ive got my 4" gp100 shooting very well with top end loads but have not gotten the same accuracy level with low power 38spl type loads.I tried to hot rod a dewc 148 with 4grns of hp38.I loaded 5 of these and shot them today and thought they had real promise until i got home and found my barrel had leaded badly.i only shot those 5 rounds so i know they did it.my purpose in hotrodding them a little was to get my point of impacts close to same as my heavy loads.They also seem to be around 12bhn which should be plenty hard for that velocity. . my purpose in telling you all of this is no i think you are too hot with 4grns unique .I havent totaly figured out why they leaded so bad yet but probably a speed and fit issue going on.Now unique and hp38 powders are pretty close on the burn rate chart so i beleive you will have same results.Also yours are hollow base wc and if loaded to hot will have skirt separation.Mine shot good with 3grns bullseye but they hit low and right quite abit and i was not happy with that so that is why i tried speeding them up.So get some bullseye and load at 3gns max and that will get 800fps per alliant specs.you do not want to load hollow base wadcutters faster than that GSPMAN

Marco Califo · May 8, 2011, 01:04 AM

38
146-148 grain LWC (Lead Wad Cutter)
Bullseye 2.8 gr. 815 FPS
Bullseye 3.1 gr. 838
Unique 3.3 gr. 815
Universal 3.8 gr. 940
Clays 2.5 gr. 836
HP38 3.8 gr. 879
No. 2 4.2 gr. ---
No. 5 6.0 gr. ---
W231 3.4 gr. 760
W231 3.1 gr. 692
540 5.2 gr. 785
ZERO AMMO (commercial) 795 (reference only)
AA #2 3.1 gr. 813
Titegroup 2.7 gr. 768
357
146-148 grain LWC (Lead Wad Cutter)
(bullets seated deeper = higher pressures)
(I don't recommend lead at over 900 FPS)
(unless at least using a Gas Check)
(with pure lead wadcutters, do not use hot loads)
Bullseye 5.7 gr. 1,475 FPS (max - hot)
Unique 6.4 gr. 1,465 (very hot - max)
Universal 3.5 gr. 880
Universal 4.0 gr. 989
HP38 & W231 3.0 gr. 845
HP38 & W231 3.4 gr. 908
Titegroup 2.9 gr. 830
Titegroup 3.3 gr. 909

Mac1 · May 8, 2011, 01:16 AM

I'm with the Bullseye crowd. Stay at 850 fps and you'll be fine. Unique is used in my .44 and .45 loads.

deleterman · May 8, 2011, 01:26 PM

Thanks guys for the info, what about Unique in .357 cases-148 hbwc and at 850-900fps. any thoughts on this ??H.B.

jmortimer · May 8, 2011, 02:51 PM

Alliant lists 6 grains of Unique for 158 grain LSWC. My load data subscription is out right now and if I remember correctly that was about the charge recommended for the 148 grain HBWC.
Note that is for .357

spacecoast · May 8, 2011, 03:56 PM

6 grains sounds like TOO MUCH POWDER to me, especially in .38 special brass. A HBWC is seated much deeper than a 158 gr. LSWC and 5.2 grains of Unique is listed by Alliant as a +P load for the 158 gr. bullet in .38 special. 4 to 4.5 grains of Unique is more like a reasonable load for the 148 gr. HBWC, but I think you'll get better results with a faster powder like Titegroup (2.8 to 3 gr.). DYODD.

Jim Watson · May 8, 2011, 04:18 PM

I wouldn't try to push a HBWC that fast, I'd worry about blowing a hole through the middle and leaving a lead tube stuck in the barrel.
If for whatever reason you want a wadcutter at 900 fps, use a solid bullet.

mbopp · May 8, 2011, 06:31 PM

My Speer #9, 10, and 14 books don't list Unique for a HBWC load.
I've loaded 4.3 - 4.7gr of Unique pushing a Dardas or Missouri DEWC in 38 and 357 cases. In 357 cases I've used 6gr of Unique and a Berrys plated DEWC with good results.

deleterman · May 8, 2011, 07:26 PM

so far so good this is the deal-I'm useing zero 148gs HBWC these are from Cullman,AL, has anyone here used them? anyway i want to load these with Unique powder in38sp cases just under 900-850 fps .I'm thinking around 3.5 grs of Unique... how does this sound?

H.B.

deleterman · May 16, 2011, 11:50 AM

went to the range the other day shot 38sp 148grs hbwc with 3.5 grs Unique -they shot great,but I was thinking of useing 3.3 grs of Unique insted of 3.5. any thoughts on this change?? thanks.H.B.

Clifford L. Hughes · May 17, 2011, 06:32 PM

Deleterman:

When I was shooting competition for the Marine Corps I used a Gvt. modle 1911 converted to 38 Special for my center fire match. My 38 Special load was a 148 gr. lead wad cutter seated over 2.7 grs. of Bullseye. This load was super accurate.

Semper Fi.

Gunnery Sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired

medic15al · May 17, 2011, 08:06 PM

I am looking for HBWCs to load and seems as if DEWCs are all I can find, Where may I find some?

kraigwy · May 17, 2011, 09:09 PM

For what its worth, I shoot the 150 Gr SWC cast bullet (Lyman mold 458477) in my 38s. I push them with 4.5 grns of Unique. I shoot thousands of rounds a year ( shooting ICORE, practice and in my 642 SD pocket revolver). I have lots of confidence in that load and have no qualms of using it in my CC revolver for SD, shooting rattlers or what ever.

Its accurate in my guns.

This is the same bullet I carried in my Model 28 in my LE career, I use it in 357s but I don't use Unique in my 357 loads, I like 2400.

May 7, 2011, 10:10 PM	#1
deleterman Member Join Date: March 18, 2008 Posts: 62	Unique -38 sp-.357 ? Hi all, just a quick queston-I have a S&W 686 357 mag with a 83/8" barrel want to shoot both 38sp and357 mag cases useing Unique powder -148gr HBWC I'm looking to run about 850-900 fps in both rounds, how does 4.0grs of Unique sound? to start with? I have lost all my notes on this load as i have loaded this round befor.any help out there ? thanks.H.B.

May 8, 2011, 01:04 AM	#3
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,614	38 146-148 grain LWC (Lead Wad Cutter) Bullseye 2.8 gr. 815 FPS Bullseye 3.1 gr. 838 Unique 3.3 gr. 815 Universal 3.8 gr. 940 Clays 2.5 gr. 836 HP38 3.8 gr. 879 No. 2 4.2 gr. --- No. 5 6.0 gr. --- W231 3.4 gr. 760 W231 3.1 gr. 692 540 5.2 gr. 785 ZERO AMMO (commercial) 795 (reference only) AA #2 3.1 gr. 813 Titegroup 2.7 gr. 768 357 146-148 grain LWC (Lead Wad Cutter) (bullets seated deeper = higher pressures) (I don't recommend lead at over 900 FPS) (unless at least using a Gas Check) (with pure lead wadcutters, do not use hot loads) Bullseye 5.7 gr. 1,475 FPS (max - hot) Unique 6.4 gr. 1,465 (very hot - max) Universal 3.5 gr. 880 Universal 4.0 gr. 989 HP38 & W231 3.0 gr. 845 HP38 & W231 3.4 gr. 908 Titegroup 2.9 gr. 830 Titegroup 3.3 gr. 909 __________________ ............

May 8, 2011, 01:26 PM	#5
deleterman Member Join Date: March 18, 2008 Posts: 62	357 cases Thanks guys for the info, what about Unique in .357 cases-148 hbwc and at 850-900fps. any thoughts on this ??H.B.

May 8, 2011, 02:51 PM	#6
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	Alliant lists 6 grains of Unique for 158 grain LSWC. My load data subscription is out right now and if I remember correctly that was about the charge recommended for the 148 grain HBWC. Note that is for .357 Last edited by jmortimer; May 8, 2011 at 07:30 PM.

May 8, 2011, 07:26 PM	#10
deleterman Member Join Date: March 18, 2008 Posts: 62	so far so good this is the deal-I'm useing zero 148gs HBWC these are from Cullman,AL, has anyone here used them? anyway i want to load these with Unique powder in38sp cases just under 900-850 fps .I'm thinking around 3.5 grs of Unique... how does this sound?H.B. Last edited by deleterman; May 10, 2011 at 12:41 AM.

May 8, 2011, 12:31 AM	#2
gspman Member Join Date: February 23, 2010 Location: Spokane Wash Posts: 59	Deleterman Well i looked at the manuals and info i have and i could not find info with unique and that bullet.I will tell you what i tried and it did not work.Ive got my 4" gp100 shooting very well with top end loads but have not gotten the same accuracy level with low power 38spl type loads.I tried to hot rod a dewc 148 with 4grns of hp38.I loaded 5 of these and shot them today and thought they had real promise until i got home and found my barrel had leaded badly.i only shot those 5 rounds so i know they did it.my purpose in hotrodding them a little was to get my point of impacts close to same as my heavy loads.They also seem to be around 12bhn which should be plenty hard for that velocity. . my purpose in telling you all of this is no i think you are too hot with 4grns unique .I havent totaly figured out why they leaded so bad yet but probably a speed and fit issue going on.Now unique and hp38 powders are pretty close on the burn rate chart so i beleive you will have same results.Also yours are hollow base wc and if loaded to hot will have skirt separation.Mine shot good with 3grns bullseye but they hit low and right quite abit and i was not happy with that so that is why i tried speeding them up.So get some bullseye and load at 3gns max and that will get 800fps per alliant specs.you do not want to load hollow base wadcutters faster than that GSPMAN

May 8, 2011, 01:16 AM	#4
Mac1 Member Join Date: April 10, 2010 Location: Western NC Posts: 75	I'm with the Bullseye crowd. Stay at 850 fps and you'll be fine. Unique is used in my .44 and .45 loads.

May 8, 2011, 03:56 PM	#7
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	6 grains sounds like TOO MUCH POWDER to me, especially in .38 special brass. A HBWC is seated much deeper than a 158 gr. LSWC and 5.2 grains of Unique is listed by Alliant as a +P load for the 158 gr. bullet in .38 special. 4 to 4.5 grains of Unique is more like a reasonable load for the 148 gr. HBWC, but I think you'll get better results with a faster powder like Titegroup (2.8 to 3 gr.). DYODD.

May 8, 2011, 04:18 PM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,614	I wouldn't try to push a HBWC that fast, I'd worry about blowing a hole through the middle and leaving a lead tube stuck in the barrel. If for whatever reason you want a wadcutter at 900 fps, use a solid bullet.

May 8, 2011, 06:31 PM	#9
mbopp Member Join Date: March 6, 2010 Posts: 50	My Speer #9, 10, and 14 books don't list Unique for a HBWC load. I've loaded 4.3 - 4.7gr of Unique pushing a Dardas or Missouri DEWC in 38 and 357 cases. In 357 cases I've used 6gr of Unique and a Berrys plated DEWC with good results.

May 16, 2011, 11:50 AM	#11
deleterman Member Join Date: March 18, 2008 Posts: 62	went to the range the other day shot 38sp 148grs hbwc with 3.5 grs Unique -they shot great,but I was thinking of useing 3.3 grs of Unique insted of 3.5. any thoughts on this change?? thanks.H.B.

May 17, 2011, 06:32 PM	#12
Clifford L. Hughes Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2011 Location: Southern Californis Posts: 795	Clifford L. Hughes Deleterman: When I was shooting competition for the Marine Corps I used a Gvt. modle 1911 converted to 38 Special for my center fire match. My 38 Special load was a 148 gr. lead wad cutter seated over 2.7 grs. of Bullseye. This load was super accurate. Semper Fi. Gunnery Sergeant Clifford L. Hughes USMC Retired

May 17, 2011, 08:06 PM	#13
medic15al Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2007 Location: Pell City, AL Posts: 123	I am looking for HBWCs to load and seems as if DEWCs are all I can find, Where may I find some?

May 17, 2011, 09:09 PM	#14
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	For what its worth, I shoot the 150 Gr SWC cast bullet (Lyman mold 458477) in my 38s. I push them with 4.5 grns of Unique. I shoot thousands of rounds a year ( shooting ICORE, practice and in my 642 SD pocket revolver). I have lots of confidence in that load and have no qualms of using it in my CC revolver for SD, shooting rattlers or what ever. Its accurate in my guns. This is the same bullet I carried in my Model 28 in my LE career, I use it in 357s but I don't use Unique in my 357 loads, I like 2400.