advice on .223 rem die

[woody wood]

any advise on who's .223 die to buy?
i have an hornady lnl progressive,and was going to start loading
.223.
all of my pistol dies have been hornady-and have worked fine,but i thought i may try somthing different this time around.
kind of wanted to try lee because they are so cheap and mus not be carbide,but than thought about
a premium die like lyman?
also 2,3 or even 4 die set? the hornady has ony 2 dies and lee has 4?
what do you guys think?

[Unclenick]

The only carbide dies for bottleneck rifle cases are very expensive because they have to be the full size of the case, and not just a ring at the bottom, as they are for straight wall cases. Also, even with carbide, when you have that much surface area contact you still need to lubricate the cases. I've actually stuck a .223 case in a carbide die, so I know whereof I speak. I don't consider them worthwhile for personal use unless you are shooting a very large volume. Their advantage is resistance to scratching and wear.

Lee sizing dies are very good. They are the only manufacturer that hones their dies to final size, so they are about the most perfectly round in cross-section that you can buy. They also have a good expander configuration for cleaning up neck dents and minimizing pulling the case neck off axis.

For a progressive press, though, I would be looking at the RCBS X-die. This die has two pluses. One, it is designed so that you trim your cases to minimum length once and it prevents them from growing to more than to the maximum length after that. Second, it uses a mandrel to control what diameter the inside of the neck is sized to, rather than sizing the outside to a fixed dimension then expanding the inside back up to compensate for differing neck wall thicknesses, as most dies do. This means less neck brass working and no opportunity for an expander to pull the neck off-axis with the rest of the case. Accuracy potential is improved by that. It gives the die the potential to be to full-length resizing what the Lee Collet Die is to neck-only sizing. But the main thing, from the standpoint of the progressive press owner, is to avoid having to take resized cases off the press and trim them before they go through the rest of the loading steps.

If your press will accommodate it, that RCBS X-die, plus the Hornady powder system, plus a Forster or Redding sliding sleeve seater die (these designs work better than Hornady's) should produce pretty high grade match ammunition without much trouble.

[4runnerman]

I load 223 also and got the Lee die set.Over 6000 rounds so far and no issues. Very good set.easy to set up. My set came with the crimping die,which i do not use as i have a bolt action and crimping is not needed.
A friend of mine is RCBS only and says he loves his too.

[NWPilgrim]

I switched to the RCBS X-Die. You trim the case once, and thereafter a ledge on the sizing mandrel keeps the case from lengthening while full length sizing. A couple of guys have done extensive testing in common calibers and posted their results: usually they give up after twenty reloadings with no case failures.

The X-Die may not be the best die if you are shooting for extreme accuracy. But if you shoot and reload thousands of rounds per year then all that trimming of cases gets tiresome (unless you buy an expensive precision power trimmer).

I have only gotten through a couple of reload cycles on my .223 cases so far, and the X-Die works as advertised.

[Poodleshooter]

I'm also an X-die fan.
Mine seems pretty accurate. I've had several loads with sub MOA groups for 5 rds out to 300yds.
I suspect most of that was due to using the RCBS seater, however.

[ArizonaRick]

I own over 30 die sets, purchased over the last 30 years. The last 10 die sets have been Lee and only Lee. Lee Delux die sets are the way to go. They include FL & neck size collet die. I also buy the Lee factory crimp die for every caliber I own. On the web, "Factory Sales" sells Lee stuff at a significant discount. Lee dies are half the price or better, and yet accuracy is fantastic. For rifle, seating the bullet 5-10 /1000th off the riflings will improve accuracy in most cases.

[woody wood]

checked out the lee dies and may try them,the two guns that the ammo will be used in are semi autos,so will have to use full case dies.i would also like to try the x dies,as they sound excelent also.
any other advice anyone?

[Unclenick]

Unless you go with the X-die, I don't think you'll see a major advantage among the other brands for .223 in a progressive. However, since you mention semi-autos, you want to find out whether your gun requires you to use a small base full length die or if a standard one will do? One drawback to Lee in that regard is they tend to size their dies toward the larger side of the spec range, which improves centering and thus accuracy in a bolt gun chamber. I've found they are fine for sizing brass for my AR that I've shot in my AR's chamber originally and that I am single loading for slow fire. But if I have some range brass that was fired in a NATO spec chamber or that was fired in military weapons, it has just enough spring that it may not size it down far enough to feed in my gun. That can require a small base die. Also, from time to time folks will report that an AR they have just won't feed reliably unless they use a small base die all the time. That shortens case life some, but I'm just letting you know that some guns can require it. If you have one, then your choices are more limited. RCBS and Redding both make small base dies you can buy on Midway. Lee does not (except maybe special order). RCBS also makes a small base X-die. (If you read the reviews, ignore the unhappy one from the fellow who complains it still let his cases grow 8 to 9 thousandths. If you've trimmed to minimum, which is 10 thousandths under maximum, per the directions, that's still within spec as long as it grows no further. That's what the die is supposed to do, keeping you under maximum.

[farmerboy]

Agree with both Unclenicks posts with the ultimate dies but far more people dont want or see the need for such nor do they want to spend the extra dollars. For most applications I would continue with the dies you stated you've bought. They did everything you needed with no problems, why change a thing? I personally am loyal to green, Everything I've ever bought was RCBS and dont see any need to change. Some people buy cheeper and there needs are met, some people buy most expensive, others mix and match. Do your own haomework and buy accordingly to meet your needs. Thats just one of the many pluses to a site such as this one, Very helpful people, wealth of knowledge, you cant ask for anything better.

[NWPilgrim]

Mine are a mix. Although I started with one brand (RCBS) and switched (Lee), I am now tuning my die sets with the est die for my purposes in each station.

For rifle cartridges:

Decapping die: I decap without sizing before cleaning so the primer pockets get a little cleaner at least. A universal die does not touch the case sides so the cases can be filthy without messing up the die. Plus, I don't have to switch out the die with a big batch of mixed cases, just the shellholder. I like the Lee universal decapping die as it has a very strong decapping pin for crimped primers, which slides if pressed too hard (berdan primed cases).

Sizing die: All of my rifle ammo is either for multiple rifles or semi-autos, so I full length size. I have switched to using the RCBS X-die for all FL sizing. I have no feeding issues with the regular based X-Die in my AR15s, M1 Garands, or various Mausers, Remingtons, Winchesters.

Seating die: I have not tuned this step yet, but this will be the next step for me. For now I use what ever brand I already have for that caliber (RCBS, Hornady or Lee) and they all seem to do a reasonable job. I would like one that does a better job centering the bullet on its way in and maybe even a micrometer adjustment stem for more precision.

Crimping die: I moved to separate crimping die with lead pistol bullets, but now do this for all cartridges as it just seems simpler and more controllable. I just need the lightest crimp for a taper crimp or slightly into the cannelure when available. The Lee Factory Crimp die is the cheapest and does the job well so that is what I use.