FMJ=> JHP via drill & scoring?

TXAZ · September 16, 2010, 09:29 PM

In comparing some FMJ 9mm to JHP 9mm, the outward appearance makes me think there's not a lot of difference between these two rounds that a 1/8"-1/4" drill bit wouldn't equalize.

So the question is, what would likely happen if you took FMJ's and drilled out an equivalent sized hole, then gently scored the sides?

I'm sure there's a good reason if nothing else based upon the price differential of the 2 different rounds, but it's not so obvious to me.

Slopemeno · September 16, 2010, 09:42 PM

Pull the bullets sometime. The JHP will have a solid base-the FMJ will usually have an open base. FMJ's are assembled from the rear- JHP's from the front.

You *could* drill out an FMJ and fire it. Due to the open base you run the risk of the core of the bullet being pushed out of the jacket and leaving the jacket in the bore.

Why bother?

Double Naught Spy · September 16, 2010, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Due to the open base you run the risk of the core of the bullet being pushed out of the jacket and leaving the jacket in the bore.

Of course, if TMJ ball ammo was used, then this concern is negated.

Quote:

In comparing some FMJ 9mm to JHP 9mm, the outward appearance makes me think there's not a lot of difference between these two rounds that a 1/8"-1/4" drill bit wouldn't equalize.

So the question is, what would likely happen if you took FMJ's and drilled out an equivalent sized hole, then gently scored the sides?

You would be changing the weight without changing the powder load and that could be problematic.

Unless you take explicit care, you probably won't be drilling out each round with full consistency to each of the others which could affect performance.

If you drill off center, the round may not stabilize properly in flight and therefore affect accuracy and cause the round to potentially not impact properly (wrong attitude) and hence not be able to function properly as a hollowpoint.

Of course, a product like this could alleviate most or all of the consistency issues.
http://www.forsterproducts.com/catal...showprevnext=1

RWBlue01 · September 17, 2010, 12:03 AM

Making hollow points out of regular ammo doesn't work very well on gel. I never tried it on a live animal.

I make try the hollow point making tool in the future. But it really doesn't do what I want to do. I want a .452 260gr JHP bullet going 1000fps to consistently open up. It just doesn't happen.

SIGSHR · September 17, 2010, 12:11 AM

I agree-why bother? I think the ammo and bullet makers have given us quality products. Perhaps for some sort of survival/breakdown of society scenario. I have never swaged bullets (does anybody?) but were I do so I would want some sort of proper tools, not just Ye Olde Handy Portable Drill.
Just my $.02.

TXAZ · September 17, 2010, 12:16 AM

Thanks,
I'm not into reloading but just wondered why with the somewhat substantial difference in the price of the 2 different types of projectiles.

Double Naught Spy · September 17, 2010, 08:25 AM

The price difference is due to manufacturing differences, development costs, economies of scale, marketing, etc.

When was the last time you you saw a new form of ball ammo? How many people do you know that buy cases and cases of hollowpoint ammo?

demigod · September 17, 2010, 09:57 AM

The price difference isn't that substantial. For example, if I go buy 100 hornady 45 acp 230 gr FMJs at cabelas, it'll cost about $23. 230 grain hollow points from hornady are like $24 or $25.

Sometimes I'll load the hollowpoints if they're out of the FMJs I want.

Also, there are many hollow point bullets with the normal lead base on the bullet like FMJs. And drilling out your own hollowpoint will not only get you little to no expansion, there's little chance your home job will be concentric to the center of the bullet. Thus you'll probably hurt accuracy.

Uncle Buck · September 17, 2010, 10:28 AM

I would just buy the hollow points you want and not try to mess with making your own. If it was as easy as it seems, more people would make their own.

How far will a bullet that wobbles travel before totally missing it's intended target? You may still hit the target, but the point of impact is not going to be the point of aim.

If cost is a factor, then look at reloading. You can start collecting the equipment you need piece by piece until you are ready (AND save your brass). Warning: Reloading is just as much fun as shooting, for me at least. When I can not get out to shoot, I can reload and enjoy it.

Do a little more reading on the subject of hollow points and see what has already been done. I read somewhere on the internet about the failures in developing a new type of hollow-point. They tried several different ways to make these things before they achieved what they were trying to do. (I do not remember the site, sorry.)

jimbob86 · September 17, 2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

If cost is a factor, then look at reloading. You can start collecting the equipment you need piece by piece until you are ready (AND save your brass). Warning: Reloading is just as much fun as shooting, for me at least. When I can not get out to shoot, I can reload and enjoy it.

+1.

Also, relaoding will probably not save you any money: you'll just shoot 2 to 3 times as much. ..... in more calibers.....

kozak6 · September 19, 2010, 12:02 AM

The biggest problem is this: by altering the bullets, you are risking blowing up the gun by trying to save a couple bucks on ammo. A couple of boxes of hollowpoints are cheaper than a new gun.

The other problem is that altered bullets don't do much anyways.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot32.htm

Results:
With handgun ammo, there was no expansion, although the jacket might strip on impact.
With rifle ammo, the bullet disintegrated and made a mess.
Seating the bullet backwards was actually more effective than altering it.

None of the altered bullets were judged to be effective as a good modern JHP.

gatopardo · September 19, 2010, 12:50 AM

Many moons ago my pals and I used to saw crosses on our bullets, or drill small holes, they work as a type of fragmentary projectiles, they would split in four wedges creating a mess in the target. I wouldn't try it now, we basically used lead ammo for that, for some reason i would be afraid today to mess with modern ammo, things have change quite a bit in thirty years.

**Bud Helms** · September 19, 2010, 08:04 AM

Let's get some of our handloaders' perspective on this.

kozak6 ... blow the gun up?

mehavey · September 19, 2010, 08:41 AM

Hollow point bullets have a very specific jacket design that utilizes varying (thinner) thickness and scoring as it approaches the open bullet tip to start/control expansion. Just drilling a hole to expose the lead core in a bullet deliberately designed as an FMJ will not a competent hollow-point make.
(yoda)

TXGunNut · September 19, 2010, 10:48 AM

+1 mehavey. There's more to a jacketed hollow point than the obvious. In most cases they use different jacket materials, construction methods, profiles and even lead alloys.
Can't think of a way to make a uniform hollow point from a FMJ without swaging equipment so if I want a JHP and the performance that comes with a modern design I'll buy them, it'll be cheaper and better that way.

HiBC · September 25, 2010, 03:01 AM

Myself,I'd lots rather drill 17-4PH stainless than copper and lead.The rest is pretty well covered except for a minor point.You can buy bulk 9mm Win or Rem FMJ' bullets pretty cheapFor just shooting they are fine.
the situations where you would want a hollow point,you also want reliability.Something you can count on.
Speer,Hornady,Sierra,etc they work pretty hard and spend a lot of money to make what works.Don't shoot HP's unless you need them.If you need them,they are a bargain.

September 16, 2010, 09:29 PM	#1
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	FMJ=> JHP via drill & scoring? In comparing some FMJ 9mm to JHP 9mm, the outward appearance makes me think there's not a lot of difference between these two rounds that a 1/8"-1/4" drill bit wouldn't equalize. So the question is, what would likely happen if you took FMJ's and drilled out an equivalent sized hole, then gently scored the sides? I'm sure there's a good reason if nothing else based upon the price differential of the 2 different rounds, but it's not so obvious to me.

September 17, 2010, 08:25 AM	#7
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,793	The price difference is due to manufacturing differences, development costs, economies of scale, marketing, etc. When was the last time you you saw a new form of ball ammo? How many people do you know that buy cases and cases of hollowpoint ammo? __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

September 19, 2010, 12:50 AM	#12
gatopardo Junior member Join Date: June 4, 2010 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 67	many moons ago Many moons ago my pals and I used to saw crosses on our bullets, or drill small holes, they work as a type of fragmentary projectiles, they would split in four wedges creating a mess in the target. I wouldn't try it now, we basically used lead ammo for that, for some reason i would be afraid today to mess with modern ammo, things have change quite a bit in thirty years.

September 19, 2010, 10:48 AM	#15
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	+1 mehavey. There's more to a jacketed hollow point than the obvious. In most cases they use different jacket materials, construction methods, profiles and even lead alloys. Can't think of a way to make a uniform hollow point from a FMJ without swaging equipment so if I want a JHP and the performance that comes with a modern design I'll buy them, it'll be cheaper and better that way. Last edited by TXGunNut; September 19, 2010 at 10:58 AM.

September 16, 2010, 09:42 PM	#2
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	Pull the bullets sometime. The JHP will have a solid base-the FMJ will usually have an open base. FMJ's are assembled from the rear- JHP's from the front. You could drill out an FMJ and fire it. Due to the open base you run the risk of the core of the bullet being pushed out of the jacket and leaving the jacket in the bore. Why bother?

September 17, 2010, 12:03 AM	#4
RWBlue01 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2008 Posts: 178	Making hollow points out of regular ammo doesn't work very well on gel. I never tried it on a live animal. I make try the hollow point making tool in the future. But it really doesn't do what I want to do. I want a .452 260gr JHP bullet going 1000fps to consistently open up. It just doesn't happen.

September 17, 2010, 12:11 AM	#5
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,712	I agree-why bother? I think the ammo and bullet makers have given us quality products. Perhaps for some sort of survival/breakdown of society scenario. I have never swaged bullets (does anybody?) but were I do so I would want some sort of proper tools, not just Ye Olde Handy Portable Drill. Just my $.02.

September 17, 2010, 12:16 AM	#6
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	Thanks, I'm not into reloading but just wondered why with the somewhat substantial difference in the price of the 2 different types of projectiles.

September 17, 2010, 09:57 AM	#8
demigod Junior member Join Date: March 13, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 1,129	The price difference isn't that substantial. For example, if I go buy 100 hornady 45 acp 230 gr FMJs at cabelas, it'll cost about $23. 230 grain hollow points from hornady are like $24 or $25. Sometimes I'll load the hollowpoints if they're out of the FMJs I want. Also, there are many hollow point bullets with the normal lead base on the bullet like FMJs. And drilling out your own hollowpoint will not only get you little to no expansion, there's little chance your home job will be concentric to the center of the bullet. Thus you'll probably hurt accuracy.

September 17, 2010, 10:28 AM	#9
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	I would just buy the hollow points you want and not try to mess with making your own. If it was as easy as it seems, more people would make their own. How far will a bullet that wobbles travel before totally missing it's intended target? You may still hit the target, but the point of impact is not going to be the point of aim. If cost is a factor, then look at reloading. You can start collecting the equipment you need piece by piece until you are ready (AND save your brass). Warning: Reloading is just as much fun as shooting, for me at least. When I can not get out to shoot, I can reload and enjoy it. Do a little more reading on the subject of hollow points and see what has already been done. I read somewhere on the internet about the failures in developing a new type of hollow-point. They tried several different ways to make these things before they achieved what they were trying to do. (I do not remember the site, sorry.)

September 19, 2010, 12:02 AM	#11
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	The biggest problem is this: by altering the bullets, you are risking blowing up the gun by trying to save a couple bucks on ammo. A couple of boxes of hollowpoints are cheaper than a new gun. The other problem is that altered bullets don't do much anyways. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot32.htm Results: With handgun ammo, there was no expansion, although the jacket might strip on impact. With rifle ammo, the bullet disintegrated and made a mess. Seating the bullet backwards was actually more effective than altering it. None of the altered bullets were judged to be effective as a good modern JHP.

September 19, 2010, 08:04 AM	#13
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	Let's get some of our handloaders' perspective on this. kozak6 ... blow the gun up?

September 19, 2010, 08:41 AM	#14
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 7,207	Hollow point bullets have a very specific jacket design that utilizes varying (thinner) thickness and scoring as it approaches the open bullet tip to start/control expansion. Just drilling a hole to expose the lead core in a bullet deliberately designed as an FMJ will not a competent hollow-point make. (yoda)

September 25, 2010, 03:01 AM	#16
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,350	Myself,I'd lots rather drill 17-4PH stainless than copper and lead.The rest is pretty well covered except for a minor point.You can buy bulk 9mm Win or Rem FMJ' bullets pretty cheapFor just shooting they are fine. the situations where you would want a hollow point,you also want reliability.Something you can count on. Speer,Hornady,Sierra,etc they work pretty hard and spend a lot of money to make what works.Don't shoot HP's unless you need them.If you need them,they are a bargain.