9MM Powder Question - Page 2

fishluv · August 14, 2010, 11:32 PM

wow thats some heavy loading

makes me more confident about loading to the upper end of the manuals

Mike40-11 · August 15, 2010, 06:31 PM

Just picked up some Ranier 124s because they were on sale at Cabela's. Finally burned through 8 lbs of Unique and was looking for something new. I like Unique, except for the fact that it's dirty, especially with light loads.

Anyway, Clays had been recommended to me. Tried a couple of loads and both my Beretta 92 and my daughter's Smith M&P loved them with 3.4 grains loaded to 1.14. More than sufficient to cycle the action but less muzzle flip than WWB. Dead on with the fixed sights.

zxcvbob · August 15, 2010, 06:42 PM

WSF burns clean and is supposed to be a good performer in 9mm. I use it in .357 Magnum and .45 Colt "Ruger" loads as a substitute for Herco. Haven't tried it yet in 9mm (I currently overload with Bullseye for that.)

If you like light loads, get a jug of Promo powder.

lwknight · August 16, 2010, 01:54 AM

Howdy , yall
Some of you might know me from the castboolits forum. I read here quite a bit and just never bothered to register.
I just want to affirm, That is has been my experience that WSF is awesome for the 9mm. Most of my work has been with 124 grain bullets and just starting to work with 147 grainers.
It seems to be the most forgiving and versatile small case cap powder that I ever messed with in 30 years.
Also great in other plinking to medium loads with heavy bullets. It don't go well with light bullets at all. Velocities are extremely radical in a 38spl with 110 grain bullets. No rhyme or reason for the results.

McClintock · August 16, 2010, 11:19 AM

Stodd...

Just curious again, what kind of slide problems were you experiencing? Are you having the dreaded "M&P FTE" (failure to extract)? I ran into that as well, with my handloads. What I found (finally, after thousands of rounds of much frustration, and just before I was going to replace the extractor), was that my particular M&P likes longer bullets (1.145 is my current load's OAL), and it was also hanging up on the next round due to insufficient crimp (which I measured out at .3755). I use this same load with both cast bullets and with FMJ, and have had success (no FTE's) using 3.7 gr. of Bullseye.

Do you get the same slide problems with factory ammo? If you visit the M&P forums, you will see lots of posts related to M&P's experiencing FTE's. Some have sent their guns back to S&W and have had success, some have replaced the extractors with aftermarket ones (which you folks have such easy access to, I'm SOOO jealous!) that have cured the problem, etc.

4.0 gr. of Bullseye should be more than enough to send a 124 gr. pill downrange. I'm not sure what your Power Factor would be with that load, or even if you're trying to make a PF, but you shouldn't have any slide problems with the bullseye load you've used.

Just a thought. Please keep us posted; I, for one, would be interested in hearing whether or not you get rid of your slide problems, as I know how frustrating that is.

Cheers!
McClintock

stodd · August 16, 2010, 12:53 PM

McClintock,

Yes i was having a failure to extract the fired case out of the gun. I changed powders from bullseye to Unique and I'm testing out a few different loads with that powder.

I tried 4.8, 4.9 and 5.0 grains of Unique with that same 124 grain Berry's RN Bullet without any failure to extract the cases. So it looks like that problem is fixed i think. Oh ya, the factory rounds didn't have any issues so i knew it was the reloads i did.

Now i'm going to play around with a few other charges to see if i can get better groupings.

Have you ever loaded for 38 spl? I'm playing around with a 125 grain FP plated bullet. If you have let me know would like to see what you have loads. Thanks.

Stodd

zxcvbob · August 16, 2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Have you ever loaded for 38 spl? I'm playing around with a 125 grain FP plated bullet. If you have let me know would like to see what you have loads. Thanks.

That bullet with 4.0 grains of Red Dot is an amazingly accurate load -- at least in my S&W 15-4.

McClintock · August 17, 2010, 10:59 AM

Stodd,

Wow, that's interesting that a powder change cured your problem (I tried 3 different powders, 231, Hodgdon Longshot, and Bullseye, with no FTE cure, until the OAL and crimp changes). Glad to hear you got rid of your FTE issue!

I haven't loaded for .38 special (yet, looking at picking up a Smith Model 29), but I know a lot of the shooters in our club who do are loading 148 gr. wadcutters with 2.8 of Bullseye. It's a mouse fart load specifically for PPC competition target shooting, and I'm not sure of the velocity (most of the .38 Special guys use 6" barrels), but it's accurate as heck, as a couple of them shoot at Grand Master level, and a couple at Distinguished Master level, so I'm pretty sure it works. Self defense and hunting loads are another story altogether (basically, handguns up here are only allowed for competition

).

Cheers!
McClintock

noylj · August 17, 2010, 08:37 PM

You want a load for a Rainier "Double Strike" plated bullet? You use lead bullets recipes. You have Unique, Green Dot, and Power Pistol.
The following is a compilation of loads from various manuals over the years:
Unique
L-SWC 121 Unique 4.0 Accurate
L-RN 125 Unique 4.0 Accurate
Swaged L-RN 124 Unique 4.0 900 Start
L-RN 121 Unique 4.0 1013 Start
L-RN 125 Unique 4.1 911 Start
Speer L-RN 125 Unique 4.1 911 Start
L-RN 121 Unique 4.3 930 Start
L-CFP 121 Unique 4.3 940 Start
L-RN 121 Unique 4.3 940 Start
RCBS 9mm-125-RN 123 Unique 4.3 995
L-RN 125 Unique 4.5 1007 Max
Speer L-RN 125 Unique 4.5 1007 Max
swaged L-RN 125 Unique 4.5 1007 Max
L-CFN 124 Unique 4.7 1083 Start
Swaged L-RN 124 Unique 5.0 1100 Max
L-RN 121 Unique 5.0 1194 Max
L-RN 125 Unique 5.0
L-RN 125 Unique 5.1 1102 Start
L-CFN 124 Unique 5.2 1166 Max
L-CFP 121 Unique 5.3 1135 Max
L-RN 121 Unique 5.3 1135 Max
L-RN 121 Unique 5.4 1145 Max
Lead 125 Unique 5.4 Start
L-RN 125 Unique 5.5 1122 Max
Lead 125 Unique 5.5 1139 Max
Lyman 356402 120 Unique 5.5 1125
L-RN 125 Unique 6.0 1165 Max
Lyman 356402 120 Unique 6.0 1275

Power Pistol:
Swaged L-RN 124 Power Pistol 4.2 900 Start
SAECO 377 123 Power Pistol 5.0 1041 Accurate
Lee 356-125-2R 126 Power Pistol 5.0 1029
Swaged L-RN 124 Power Pistol 5.7 1100 Max

Green Dot:
L-RN 121 Green Dot 3.5 966 Start
L-RN 125 Green Dot 3.8 869 Start
swaged L-RN 125 Green Dot 3.8 869 Start
L-CFP 121 Green Dot 3.9 970 Start
L-RN 121 Green Dot 3.9 970 Start
L-RN 121 Green Dot 3.9 990 Start
L-RN 125 Green Dot 4.0 975 Max
swaged L-RN 125 Green Dot 4.2 990 Max
L-RN 121 Green Dot 4.4 1152 Max
Lead 125 Green Dot 4.7 Start
L-RN 121 Green Dot 4.8 1105 Max
L-CFP 121 Green Dot 4.8 1165 Max
Lead 125 Green Dot 5.2 1165 Max

Data the I have specific to Rainier 124 DS plated bullets is:
Cu P-RN 124 3N37 5.4 1136 Start
Cu P-RN 124 3N37 6.0 1199 Max
Cu P-RN 124 N320 3.8 1000 Start
Cu P-RN 124 N320 4.1 1069 Max
Cu P-RN 124 N330 4.2 1063 Start
Cu P-RN 124 N330 4.7 1129 Max
Cu P-RN 124 N340 4.7 1077 Start
Cu P-RN 124 N340 5.1 1152 Max
Cu P-RN 124 N350 5.2 1115 Start
Cu P-RN 124 N350 5.9 1196 Max
Cu P-RN 124 231/HP38 4.0 Accurate
Cu P-RN 124 TiteGroup 3.7 Light-Accurate

August 15, 2010, 06:42 PM	#28
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	WSF burns clean and is supposed to be a good performer in 9mm. I use it in .357 Magnum and .45 Colt "Ruger" loads as a substitute for Herco. Haven't tried it yet in 9mm (I currently overload with Bullseye for that.) If you like light loads, get a jug of Promo powder. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

August 16, 2010, 11:19 AM	#30
McClintock Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: The Bald Prairie of Southern Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 305	Slide problems? Stodd... Just curious again, what kind of slide problems were you experiencing? Are you having the dreaded "M&P FTE" (failure to extract)? I ran into that as well, with my handloads. What I found (finally, after thousands of rounds of much frustration, and just before I was going to replace the extractor), was that my particular M&P likes longer bullets (1.145 is my current load's OAL), and it was also hanging up on the next round due to insufficient crimp (which I measured out at .3755). I use this same load with both cast bullets and with FMJ, and have had success (no FTE's) using 3.7 gr. of Bullseye. Do you get the same slide problems with factory ammo? If you visit the M&P forums, you will see lots of posts related to M&P's experiencing FTE's. Some have sent their guns back to S&W and have had success, some have replaced the extractors with aftermarket ones (which you folks have such easy access to, I'm SOOO jealous!) that have cured the problem, etc. 4.0 gr. of Bullseye should be more than enough to send a 124 gr. pill downrange. I'm not sure what your Power Factor would be with that load, or even if you're trying to make a PF, but you shouldn't have any slide problems with the bullseye load you've used. Just a thought. Please keep us posted; I, for one, would be interested in hearing whether or not you get rid of your slide problems, as I know how frustrating that is. Cheers! McClintock

August 17, 2010, 08:37 PM	#34
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 860	9mm loads You want a load for a Rainier "Double Strike" plated bullet? You use lead bullets recipes. You have Unique, Green Dot, and Power Pistol. The following is a compilation of loads from various manuals over the years: Unique L-SWC 121 Unique 4.0 Accurate L-RN 125 Unique 4.0 Accurate Swaged L-RN 124 Unique 4.0 900 Start L-RN 121 Unique 4.0 1013 Start L-RN 125 Unique 4.1 911 Start Speer L-RN 125 Unique 4.1 911 Start L-RN 121 Unique 4.3 930 Start L-CFP 121 Unique 4.3 940 Start L-RN 121 Unique 4.3 940 Start RCBS 9mm-125-RN 123 Unique 4.3 995 L-RN 125 Unique 4.5 1007 Max Speer L-RN 125 Unique 4.5 1007 Max swaged L-RN 125 Unique 4.5 1007 Max L-CFN 124 Unique 4.7 1083 Start Swaged L-RN 124 Unique 5.0 1100 Max L-RN 121 Unique 5.0 1194 Max L-RN 125 Unique 5.0 L-RN 125 Unique 5.1 1102 Start L-CFN 124 Unique 5.2 1166 Max L-CFP 121 Unique 5.3 1135 Max L-RN 121 Unique 5.3 1135 Max L-RN 121 Unique 5.4 1145 Max Lead 125 Unique 5.4 Start L-RN 125 Unique 5.5 1122 Max Lead 125 Unique 5.5 1139 Max Lyman 356402 120 Unique 5.5 1125 L-RN 125 Unique 6.0 1165 Max Lyman 356402 120 Unique 6.0 1275 Power Pistol: Swaged L-RN 124 Power Pistol 4.2 900 Start SAECO 377 123 Power Pistol 5.0 1041 Accurate Lee 356-125-2R 126 Power Pistol 5.0 1029 Swaged L-RN 124 Power Pistol 5.7 1100 Max Green Dot: L-RN 121 Green Dot 3.5 966 Start L-RN 125 Green Dot 3.8 869 Start swaged L-RN 125 Green Dot 3.8 869 Start L-CFP 121 Green Dot 3.9 970 Start L-RN 121 Green Dot 3.9 970 Start L-RN 121 Green Dot 3.9 990 Start L-RN 125 Green Dot 4.0 975 Max swaged L-RN 125 Green Dot 4.2 990 Max L-RN 121 Green Dot 4.4 1152 Max Lead 125 Green Dot 4.7 Start L-RN 121 Green Dot 4.8 1105 Max L-CFP 121 Green Dot 4.8 1165 Max Lead 125 Green Dot 5.2 1165 Max Data the I have specific to Rainier 124 DS plated bullets is: Cu P-RN 124 3N37 5.4 1136 Start Cu P-RN 124 3N37 6.0 1199 Max Cu P-RN 124 N320 3.8 1000 Start Cu P-RN 124 N320 4.1 1069 Max Cu P-RN 124 N330 4.2 1063 Start Cu P-RN 124 N330 4.7 1129 Max Cu P-RN 124 N340 4.7 1077 Start Cu P-RN 124 N340 5.1 1152 Max Cu P-RN 124 N350 5.2 1115 Start Cu P-RN 124 N350 5.9 1196 Max Cu P-RN 124 231/HP38 4.0 Accurate Cu P-RN 124 TiteGroup 3.7 Light-Accurate

August 14, 2010, 11:32 PM	#26
fishluv Member Join Date: March 31, 2010 Posts: 74	wow thats some heavy loading makes me more confident about loading to the upper end of the manuals

August 15, 2010, 06:31 PM	#27
Mike40-11 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 842	Just picked up some Ranier 124s because they were on sale at Cabela's. Finally burned through 8 lbs of Unique and was looking for something new. I like Unique, except for the fact that it's dirty, especially with light loads. Anyway, Clays had been recommended to me. Tried a couple of loads and both my Beretta 92 and my daughter's Smith M&P loved them with 3.4 grains loaded to 1.14. More than sufficient to cycle the action but less muzzle flip than WWB. Dead on with the fixed sights.

August 16, 2010, 01:54 AM	#29
lwknight Member Join Date: August 16, 2010 Location: North Central Texas Posts: 31	Howdy , yall Some of you might know me from the castboolits forum. I read here quite a bit and just never bothered to register. I just want to affirm, That is has been my experience that WSF is awesome for the 9mm. Most of my work has been with 124 grain bullets and just starting to work with 147 grainers. It seems to be the most forgiving and versatile small case cap powder that I ever messed with in 30 years. Also great in other plinking to medium loads with heavy bullets. It don't go well with light bullets at all. Velocities are extremely radical in a 38spl with 110 grain bullets. No rhyme or reason for the results.

August 16, 2010, 12:53 PM	#31
stodd Junior Member Join Date: August 9, 2010 Posts: 14	McClintock, Yes i was having a failure to extract the fired case out of the gun. I changed powders from bullseye to Unique and I'm testing out a few different loads with that powder. I tried 4.8, 4.9 and 5.0 grains of Unique with that same 124 grain Berry's RN Bullet without any failure to extract the cases. So it looks like that problem is fixed i think. Oh ya, the factory rounds didn't have any issues so i knew it was the reloads i did. Now i'm going to play around with a few other charges to see if i can get better groupings. Have you ever loaded for 38 spl? I'm playing around with a 125 grain FP plated bullet. If you have let me know would like to see what you have loads. Thanks. Stodd

August 17, 2010, 10:59 AM	#33
McClintock Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: The Bald Prairie of Southern Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 305	Stodd, Wow, that's interesting that a powder change cured your problem (I tried 3 different powders, 231, Hodgdon Longshot, and Bullseye, with no FTE cure, until the OAL and crimp changes). Glad to hear you got rid of your FTE issue! I haven't loaded for .38 special (yet, looking at picking up a Smith Model 29), but I know a lot of the shooters in our club who do are loading 148 gr. wadcutters with 2.8 of Bullseye. It's a mouse fart load specifically for PPC competition target shooting, and I'm not sure of the velocity (most of the .38 Special guys use 6" barrels), but it's accurate as heck, as a couple of them shoot at Grand Master level, and a couple at Distinguished Master level, so I'm pretty sure it works. Self defense and hunting loads are another story altogether (basically, handguns up here are only allowed for competition ). Cheers! McClintock