LEE 30.06 seating die seats different every time

rbf420 · April 15, 2010, 09:37 PM

my lee 30.06 seating die is seating the bullets at a wide range of depths everytime... any where from 3.00 inches to 3.30 ive watch the nob and it doesnt move and neither does the die... any suggestions?

palabman · April 15, 2010, 11:36 PM

Have you taken it apart and inspected it?

Sport45 · April 15, 2010, 11:43 PM

How uniform are your bullets? Seating dies don't press on the tips of the bullets so the COAL measurements won't be the same unless the bullets are identical. The best way to get uniform COAL is to use a flat seater that presses on the bullet tip.

That wouldn't give you the best accuracy, but you might feel better about the overall length measurement.

Dannyl · April 16, 2010, 07:49 AM

I am of the same opinion as Sports45.
The seating stem does not touch the tip of the bullet, but rather somewhere on the ogive. if the bullets are not exactly identical (especially if they are of different weights or manufacturers) this will happen.

I load with different bullets (also 3006) and keep a dummy of each COL / bullet combination. I use it to calibrate the die each time before seating a batch.

Brgds,
Danny

flyguy958 · April 16, 2010, 07:58 AM

I don't have an answer but, .300" is a BIG difference. Are you getting this variation on the same weight, brand and style of bullet?

steve4102 · April 16, 2010, 08:20 AM

That's .300 difference, more than 1/4 inch, that's not good.

Are you having this happen with the same brand and weight bullets?

What are you measuring your COL with?

Is the die locking ring tight?

Did you pull the die apart ans clean all the crap that Lee sends with their new dies out?

What brand and weight bullet?

Sport45 · April 16, 2010, 09:16 AM

I was going on the assumption the OP had a typo and meant 3.000 - 3.030". The only way to get 0.300" of variance is to seat some bullets upside down. I think he would notice that...

rbf420 · April 16, 2010, 09:47 AM

yea they are all the same, pulled down army surplus, ive cleaned it out as well, ive used thise die several times and havent had this problem before :/.. and yea its actually seating the overall length anywhere from 3.00 to 3.30 not a whole 1/3 of an inch.

flyguy958 · April 16, 2010, 10:24 AM

3.000" to 3.300" is close to 5/16".

**Unclenick** · April 16, 2010, 11:09 AM

Then you do mean 3.03" and not 3.30"; sometimes I can't seem to get my finger off the typo key, either.

Well, That's about three times the difference in length I see in hollow point match bullets all coming out of the same box. I once had some M2 Ball that case marks showed was pulled from machine gun links. When I pulled the bullets I found three visually distinct base forming patterns. It was a mixture of three lots made on clearly different tooling. The noses didn't quite have matching appearance, either. I don't recall measuring the length. My point is just that they could be different.

I suggest you unscrew the seater ram retainer and pull out the seater ram. Set it onto the noses of a number of bullets and use your calipers to measure the total length of the bullet and ram. If it varies by 0.03", then you'll know this is the bullets causing it.

The only other thing I can think of is to look at how that ram fits the bullets? Is there any chance the tip could miss the conical hole in the ram and be seated by the edge of it?

rbf420 · April 16, 2010, 11:15 AM

yea haha thanks uncle nick... yea i was also wondering the same thing about seating by the edge ill have to take a look... i also tried load some hornandy bullets and i was still coming out with variences in seating deepths with them as well, not as bad but still enough to cause concern.

palabman · April 16, 2010, 06:40 PM

Have you tried spinning the case as you seat the bullet?

rbernie · April 17, 2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

The seating stem does not touch the tip of the bullet, but rather somewhere on the ogive. if the bullets are not exactly identical (especially if they are of different weights or manufacturers) this will happen.

Every time I've seen an OAL variation with my Lee dies, either the seating stem was binding due to spooge buildup in the body or the bullets themselves were simply inconsistent in their ogive form.

**Unclenick** · April 17, 2010, 10:01 AM

The build-up is worth double-checking, but with jacketed bullets it isn't usually an issue. But removing the retaining cap and putting a drop of gun grease or STP or CLP on top of the stem so it slips against the bottom of the retaining plug may help?

rwilson452 · April 17, 2010, 12:24 PM

When I though I was having this sort of problem with my Lee dies. I used a Sinclare bullet comparator to check the COL. the length was much more consistent using this method, as they both use the ogive of the bullet.

mrawesome22 · April 18, 2010, 12:01 AM

Pulled military bullets. It's the bullets.

dlb435 · April 18, 2010, 01:11 AM

You didn't say what type of press you are using. Is it a single stage or progressive? You can have probelms with a progressive if there is binding/blockage in an other stage. A single stage with properly set dies should be perfect every time. Also, do you have the right shaped seat for your bullet type?

Koveras · April 18, 2010, 06:05 AM

There's a good chance the surplus pulldown bullets are now undersized and they are being partially pulled back out as the ram is lowered (aka: insufficient case neck tension).

Also, if you are using surplus pulldown military brass without sizing, there's a good chance the necks are oversized.

To verify this, take one of the long cartridges and try pushing it bullet nose first against a solid wood surface. If the bullet moves in the case, then you have a case neck tension problem.

rbf420 · April 19, 2010, 11:37 AM

im using a single stage, and ive also tried using some hornandy bullets and while the varation isnt as bad its still there

maggys drawers · April 19, 2010, 06:02 PM

I've had the same problem with a lee seater die and military pull down bullets for 30-06. I seat them long, pull them out and measure them and then calculate how much deeper they need to go and seat a 2nd time. With the Lee die, if they need to go .015 deeper, just turn the knob like a clock face 1/4 turn. .010 deeper, the same as 10 minutes on a clock face...it works for me. My loads usually come out within .001-.002 of what I want with this method.

Better bullets will almost always be closer than pull downs when it comes to seating depth. Seems to be the nature of the pull down beast.

April 15, 2010, 09:37 PM	#1
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	LEE 30.06 seating die seats different every time my lee 30.06 seating die is seating the bullets at a wide range of depths everytime... any where from 3.00 inches to 3.30 ive watch the nob and it doesnt move and neither does the die... any suggestions?

April 15, 2010, 11:43 PM	#3
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	How uniform are your bullets? Seating dies don't press on the tips of the bullets so the COAL measurements won't be the same unless the bullets are identical. The best way to get uniform COAL is to use a flat seater that presses on the bullet tip. That wouldn't give you the best accuracy, but you might feel better about the overall length measurement. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

April 16, 2010, 09:16 AM	#7
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I was going on the assumption the OP had a typo and meant 3.000 - 3.030". The only way to get 0.300" of variance is to seat some bullets upside down. I think he would notice that... __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

April 16, 2010, 11:09 AM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,732	Then you do mean 3.03" and not 3.30"; sometimes I can't seem to get my finger off the typo key, either. Well, That's about three times the difference in length I see in hollow point match bullets all coming out of the same box. I once had some M2 Ball that case marks showed was pulled from machine gun links. When I pulled the bullets I found three visually distinct base forming patterns. It was a mixture of three lots made on clearly different tooling. The noses didn't quite have matching appearance, either. I don't recall measuring the length. My point is just that they could be different. I suggest you unscrew the seater ram retainer and pull out the seater ram. Set it onto the noses of a number of bullets and use your calipers to measure the total length of the bullet and ram. If it varies by 0.03", then you'll know this is the bullets causing it. The only other thing I can think of is to look at how that ram fits the bullets? Is there any chance the tip could miss the conical hole in the ram and be seated by the edge of it? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; April 16, 2010 at 11:36 AM.

April 17, 2010, 10:01 AM	#14
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,732	The build-up is worth double-checking, but with jacketed bullets it isn't usually an issue. But removing the retaining cap and putting a drop of gun grease or STP or CLP on top of the stem so it slips against the bottom of the retaining plug may help? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 15, 2010, 11:36 PM	#2
palabman Member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: SW PA Posts: 80	Have you taken it apart and inspected it?

April 16, 2010, 07:49 AM	#4
Dannyl Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Cape Town - South Africa Posts: 627	I am of the same opinion as Sports45. The seating stem does not touch the tip of the bullet, but rather somewhere on the ogive. if the bullets are not exactly identical (especially if they are of different weights or manufacturers) this will happen. I load with different bullets (also 3006) and keep a dummy of each COL / bullet combination. I use it to calibrate the die each time before seating a batch. Brgds, Danny

April 16, 2010, 07:58 AM	#5
flyguy958 Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 200	I don't have an answer but, .300" is a BIG difference. Are you getting this variation on the same weight, brand and style of bullet?

April 16, 2010, 08:20 AM	#6
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,968	That's .300 difference, more than 1/4 inch, that's not good. Are you having this happen with the same brand and weight bullets? What are you measuring your COL with? Is the die locking ring tight? Did you pull the die apart ans clean all the crap that Lee sends with their new dies out? What brand and weight bullet?

April 16, 2010, 09:47 AM	#8
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	yea they are all the same, pulled down army surplus, ive cleaned it out as well, ive used thise die several times and havent had this problem before :/.. and yea its actually seating the overall length anywhere from 3.00 to 3.30 not a whole 1/3 of an inch.

April 16, 2010, 10:24 AM	#9
flyguy958 Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 200	3.000" to 3.300" is close to 5/16".

April 16, 2010, 11:15 AM	#11
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	yea haha thanks uncle nick... yea i was also wondering the same thing about seating by the edge ill have to take a look... i also tried load some hornandy bullets and i was still coming out with variences in seating deepths with them as well, not as bad but still enough to cause concern.

April 16, 2010, 06:40 PM	#12
palabman Member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: SW PA Posts: 80	Have you tried spinning the case as you seat the bullet?

April 17, 2010, 12:24 PM	#15
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	When I though I was having this sort of problem with my Lee dies. I used a Sinclare bullet comparator to check the COL. the length was much more consistent using this method, as they both use the ogive of the bullet. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

April 18, 2010, 12:01 AM	#16
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Pulled military bullets. It's the bullets.

April 18, 2010, 01:11 AM	#17
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	You didn't say what type of press you are using. Is it a single stage or progressive? You can have probelms with a progressive if there is binding/blockage in an other stage. A single stage with properly set dies should be perfect every time. Also, do you have the right shaped seat for your bullet type?

April 18, 2010, 06:05 AM	#18
Koveras Member Join Date: April 6, 2002 Location: Oklahoma City, USA Posts: 68	There's a good chance the surplus pulldown bullets are now undersized and they are being partially pulled back out as the ram is lowered (aka: insufficient case neck tension). Also, if you are using surplus pulldown military brass without sizing, there's a good chance the necks are oversized. To verify this, take one of the long cartridges and try pushing it bullet nose first against a solid wood surface. If the bullet moves in the case, then you have a case neck tension problem.

April 19, 2010, 11:37 AM	#19
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	im using a single stage, and ive also tried using some hornandy bullets and while the varation isnt as bad its still there

April 19, 2010, 06:02 PM	#20
maggys drawers Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2006 Posts: 178	I've had the same problem with a lee seater die and military pull down bullets for 30-06. I seat them long, pull them out and measure them and then calculate how much deeper they need to go and seat a 2nd time. With the Lee die, if they need to go .015 deeper, just turn the knob like a clock face 1/4 turn. .010 deeper, the same as 10 minutes on a clock face...it works for me. My loads usually come out within .001-.002 of what I want with this method. Better bullets will almost always be closer than pull downs when it comes to seating depth. Seems to be the nature of the pull down beast.