I come in peace. Tumbling live?

physikal · April 4, 2010, 04:01 PM

Tuesday my RCBS Lube Die #1 arrives w/ my RCBS X-Die for .223. I would REALLY like to load it up progressively in my Hornady LNL AP w/o having to resize/decap then tumble, then proceed.

If I do it w/o the above mentioned steps and just go full on lube / decap - prime - resize - charge - seat bullet....I then have lubed up loaded rounds. I don't like lubed up loaded rounds. SO....I'd like to tumble them.

Is it REALLY that bad if I tumble about 150 loaded rounds at a time for maybe 5-10min max to take the majority of the lube off so it's not going through my guns?

qcpunk · April 4, 2010, 04:07 PM

There were a few threads about that exact question. I believe the general concensus was it is ok to tumble loaded ammo. But it may interest you to use the search funcion and read what had been said....

You can find more here http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ling+live+ammo

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ling+live+ammo

Sevens · April 4, 2010, 04:07 PM

When you open this can of worms you typically a lot of very passionate opinions and very little actual evidence.

I've seen a VERY detailed account of folks who have done documented tests. It's my observation that it's not unsafe to tumble loaded ammunition, especially if you are talking about 15-30 mins to remove case lube.

If you are using soft point ammo, you might compromise the lead tip. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry another moment about it.

BUT-- strap yourself in for all the comments telling you that you'll blow the house up!

troy_mclure · April 4, 2010, 04:24 PM

there wa a guy that tumbled loaded ammo for months(to see if it broke down the powder), with no bad results.

**Shane Tuttle** · April 4, 2010, 07:25 PM

For the amount of time you're tumbling, it isn't going to be an issue. I can't give you an opinion on the number to tumble at once without knowing what tumbler you have.

Sky Master · April 4, 2010, 07:38 PM

I just fininshed tumbling 75 loaded 9mm rounds for about 3hrs, to get the cases shiny. No problems.

80viking · April 4, 2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

to take the majority of the lube off so it's not going through my guns?

You don't want any lube on your cases. It will increase thrust on the bolt face because the case cannot properly grip the chamber walls when fired.

mongoose33 · April 4, 2010, 10:24 PM

I have the same setup, i.e., X-die and Lube die (haven't run them through my LNLAP progressively yet, but I have done the lube and resize w/ the X-Die.)

I will be tumbling to remove lube when I do the entire operation. Based on all the threads and expectations and opinions, I don't see anything wrong with it at all. No degradation of powder (how far is that stuff shipped in bouncing and bumbling trucks?), no concern about anything.

medalguy · April 4, 2010, 10:39 PM

I load on Dillon presses and always tumble my ammo for just your reason. Never had my house blow up yet. I consider it perfectly safe as far as safe goes. Doesn't bother me.

Now, as said, there will be people who will chime in with all kinds of dire predictions but the fact is tumbling for 15 - 30 minutes will not degrade the powder, will not change the burning characteristics of the powder, and will not detonate rounds in the tumbler. Go for it!

snuffy · April 4, 2010, 10:48 PM

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=498890

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=495611

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=498890 These threads pretty much sum it up. The last one is where Walkalong and I did our little tests.

physikal · April 4, 2010, 11:45 PM

Thanks so much guys! Appreciate it.

Bamashooter · April 5, 2010, 12:08 AM

i always wipe the cases off with an old rag and some rem-oil.

Sport45 · April 5, 2010, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamashooter

i always wipe the cases off with an old rag and some rem-oil.

The smiley may have meant you were joking, so please don't take offense. But, as 80viking pointed out earlier you really don't want lubricant of any* type on your brass when shooting for the reason he mentioned. If you need a solvent to ease the de-greasing operation use something that will evaporate.

* There is at least one exception to this. The model escapes me, but I believe there is a milsurp semi-auto rifle that does require case lube for reliable extraction.

Bamashooter · April 5, 2010, 09:31 PM

i take an old rag and lightly spray it with rem-oil. wipe the cases down to remove the case lube.take another clean rag and wipe them off again. never had any issues with my cases. they are free and clean of any case lube and rem-oil. i dont get in a hurry reloading and i dont mind the extra step.

grubbylabs · April 5, 2010, 09:41 PM

I have been decamping re sizing and then tumbling, then charging and seating bullets.

jepp2 · April 5, 2010, 10:42 PM

Since you mentioned the RCBS lube die, I assume you are using a petroleum based lubricant. If you do decide to tumble after loading, adding some OMS (odorless mineral spirits) to the media and running your tumbler for about 10 minutes before you add your brass, will really improve cleaning. It will clean better in a shorter time period.

I haven't found it necessary to tumble loaded ammo. But if I did, IF there is any affect on the powder from tumbling, the shorter the time period you tumble, the less the effect.

There are plenty of non-petroleum based case lubes that come off easier than RCBS sizing lube.

**Mike Irwin** · April 6, 2010, 12:17 AM

Some military firearms, primarily Japanese and Italian machine guns, did require lubricated ammo, or had a small pump that shot oil into the chamber, to prevent extraction from ripping the head off the case.

I THINK that the Bang semi auto rifle, which was an early contender for US military trials, required lubricated ammo.

That said, as others have indicated, lubrication on the cases is generally a bad thing, especially with positively locked breech firearms like a pump rifle or a bolt action.

Edward429451 · April 6, 2010, 12:44 AM

Nice idea but remember that you do have to start with trimmed brass so it's all consistent with the X die.

I just wipe lube off with a clean cotton cloth before the loading process begins. I don't run lube through the dillon and am not so lazy to tumble loaded rounds to get out of wiping them down. Tsk Tsk.

I wipe the loaded ammo down again before packaging and run each round through a case gauge. It is not good to take too many shortcuts in loading ammo. Resist developing bad loading habits. What the OP is doing is effectively eliminating brass prep from the sound. My experiance has shown that the more attention you give your brass, the closer you be to 100% reliability and match grade. There's brass prep, and then there's reloading. WHen do you plan to inspect the brass? You can't wisely go from decap to loaded round!

Mayb if you was surrounded like Waco or something and low on ammo.

April 4, 2010, 04:07 PM	#3
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,775	When you open this can of worms you typically a lot of very passionate opinions and very little actual evidence. I've seen a VERY detailed account of folks who have done documented tests. It's my observation that it's not unsafe to tumble loaded ammunition, especially if you are talking about 15-30 mins to remove case lube. If you are using soft point ammo, you might compromise the lead tip. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry another moment about it. BUT-- strap yourself in for all the comments telling you that you'll blow the house up! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

April 4, 2010, 07:25 PM	#5
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,455	For the amount of time you're tumbling, it isn't going to be an issue. I can't give you an opinion on the number to tumble at once without knowing what tumbler you have. __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

April 6, 2010, 12:17 AM	#17
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	Some military firearms, primarily Japanese and Italian machine guns, did require lubricated ammo, or had a small pump that shot oil into the chamber, to prevent extraction from ripping the head off the case. I THINK that the Bang semi auto rifle, which was an early contender for US military trials, required lubricated ammo. That said, as others have indicated, lubrication on the cases is generally a bad thing, especially with positively locked breech firearms like a pump rifle or a bolt action. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 4, 2010, 04:01 PM	#1
physikal Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2008 Posts: 135	I come in peace. Tumbling live? Tuesday my RCBS Lube Die #1 arrives w/ my RCBS X-Die for .223. I would REALLY like to load it up progressively in my Hornady LNL AP w/o having to resize/decap then tumble, then proceed. If I do it w/o the above mentioned steps and just go full on lube / decap - prime - resize - charge - seat bullet....I then have lubed up loaded rounds. I don't like lubed up loaded rounds. SO....I'd like to tumble them. Is it REALLY that bad if I tumble about 150 loaded rounds at a time for maybe 5-10min max to take the majority of the lube off so it's not going through my guns?

April 4, 2010, 04:07 PM	#2
qcpunk Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Farmsville, AZ Posts: 305	There were a few threads about that exact question. I believe the general concensus was it is ok to tumble loaded ammo. But it may interest you to use the search funcion and read what had been said.... You can find more here http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ling+live+ammo http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ling+live+ammo

April 4, 2010, 04:24 PM	#4
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	there wa a guy that tumbled loaded ammo for months(to see if it broke down the powder), with no bad results.

April 4, 2010, 07:38 PM	#6
Sky Master Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2009 Posts: 136	I just fininshed tumbling 75 loaded 9mm rounds for about 3hrs, to get the cases shiny. No problems.

April 4, 2010, 10:24 PM	#8
mongoose33 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 228	I have the same setup, i.e., X-die and Lube die (haven't run them through my LNLAP progressively yet, but I have done the lube and resize w/ the X-Die.) I will be tumbling to remove lube when I do the entire operation. Based on all the threads and expectations and opinions, I don't see anything wrong with it at all. No degradation of powder (how far is that stuff shipped in bouncing and bumbling trucks?), no concern about anything.

April 4, 2010, 10:39 PM	#9
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	I load on Dillon presses and always tumble my ammo for just your reason. Never had my house blow up yet. I consider it perfectly safe as far as safe goes. Doesn't bother me. Now, as said, there will be people who will chime in with all kinds of dire predictions but the fact is tumbling for 15 - 30 minutes will not degrade the powder, will not change the burning characteristics of the powder, and will not detonate rounds in the tumbler. Go for it!

April 4, 2010, 10:48 PM	#10
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=498890 http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=495611 http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=498890 These threads pretty much sum it up. The last one is where Walkalong and I did our little tests.

April 4, 2010, 11:45 PM	#11
physikal Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2008 Posts: 135	Thanks so much guys! Appreciate it.

April 5, 2010, 12:08 AM	#12
Bamashooter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2010 Posts: 1,860	i always wipe the cases off with an old rag and some rem-oil.

April 5, 2010, 09:31 PM	#14
Bamashooter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2010 Posts: 1,860	i take an old rag and lightly spray it with rem-oil. wipe the cases down to remove the case lube.take another clean rag and wipe them off again. never had any issues with my cases. they are free and clean of any case lube and rem-oil. i dont get in a hurry reloading and i dont mind the extra step.

April 5, 2010, 09:41 PM	#15
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	I have been decamping re sizing and then tumbling, then charging and seating bullets.

April 5, 2010, 10:42 PM	#16
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	Since you mentioned the RCBS lube die, I assume you are using a petroleum based lubricant. If you do decide to tumble after loading, adding some OMS (odorless mineral spirits) to the media and running your tumbler for about 10 minutes before you add your brass, will really improve cleaning. It will clean better in a shorter time period. I haven't found it necessary to tumble loaded ammo. But if I did, IF there is any affect on the powder from tumbling, the shorter the time period you tumble, the less the effect. There are plenty of non-petroleum based case lubes that come off easier than RCBS sizing lube.

April 6, 2010, 12:44 AM	#18
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Nice idea but remember that you do have to start with trimmed brass so it's all consistent with the X die. I just wipe lube off with a clean cotton cloth before the loading process begins. I don't run lube through the dillon and am not so lazy to tumble loaded rounds to get out of wiping them down. Tsk Tsk. I wipe the loaded ammo down again before packaging and run each round through a case gauge. It is not good to take too many shortcuts in loading ammo. Resist developing bad loading habits. What the OP is doing is effectively eliminating brass prep from the sound. My experiance has shown that the more attention you give your brass, the closer you be to 100% reliability and match grade. There's brass prep, and then there's reloading. WHen do you plan to inspect the brass? You can't wisely go from decap to loaded round! Mayb if you was surrounded like Waco or something and low on ammo.