help me straighten out my 223 recipe

mdd · March 27, 2010, 08:19 PM

My dad got me started reloading a few years ago. Not knowing any better, I used his recipe for 223 ammo. Problem is his 223 rifle has a 26" barrel where mine is 20" (ultralight ruger m77 mkII). We both shoot 55 grain ballistic tips. Problem is, I can't hit a damn thing with mine beyond 100 yds. Had my 'smith check the gun and he said its in perfect working order. Broke down and bought a sled to eliminate myself from the equation as much as possible and found that I have almost 6 inches of drop at 200 when zeroed dead on for 100 yds. The last variable is the ammo. Apparently I need a faster burning powder than what i'm using to work with this shorter barrel. With all this in mind, what do you guys recommend for 55 grain bullets out of a 20" barrel? Thanks for the help.

dozernomore · March 27, 2010, 08:35 PM

my stevens 223 rem,22'' barrel, loves 55gr V-max's and h335,2900fps mv,

dozernomore · March 27, 2010, 08:37 PM

and I forgot to mention a 1 and 9 twist

Tacoma · March 27, 2010, 09:06 PM

You don't mention what powder /load your using now but ....
I've always used H4895 for all my 55gr+ .223 loads of semi auto and bolt guns in the 16-22" range. ( Including my ruger MK II) This is a VERY common powder in competitive AR-15 shooting circles. FWIW, if I were going to shoot @ 200 yds+ regularly with that twist, I might try some slightly heavier bullets over that 4895 in the 60-69 gr range.

mdd · March 27, 2010, 09:53 PM

Sorry about that. The load is 26.5 grains of 748 winchester if I remember correctly. I carry this 223 year round in my truck and shoot it pretty regularly. See a lot of bullet-worthy critters as I go about chores and such. Unfortunately I can't seem to provide said vermin with the bullet they deserve when its shooting this poorly.

SomeGuyInMidwest · March 27, 2010, 11:05 PM

I also have a 20" barrel with 1:9 twist on my .223. Like Tacoma, I also use Hornady V-Max and H335. I load 24.5 gr H335 with Lake City brass and Rem 7.5 primers. I get around 3040 fps. I use 24.7 gr. if I load with Winchester brass. I primarily hunt coyotes. They are excellent within 200 meters, but much beyond that I do not trust them. I get about 3.5-4 inches of drop at 200 meters and a little bit of drift. By 300 meters, it is about a 14 inch drop - too much for me to trust.

HiBC · March 27, 2010, 11:33 PM

I will guess what is causing your problem is the dead on zero at 100 yds.Try sighting in about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 in high at 100 yds.I think you will find it will be on at 200.

You might try studying ballistic tables and a term "maximum point blank range"

Jim243 · March 28, 2010, 12:01 AM

On 55 gr bullets and larger H4895 on under 55 gr H335. There is a new powder out by Hodgdon IMR 8208 XBT that I have been trying to get.

Jim

If your chamber will handle them try 75 grain Hornady A-Max's with a load of 23.3 grains H4895 set to OAL of 2.390. Savage Mod 11 - 20 inch barrel 1 in 9 twist, they shoot like lasers straight and accurate.

mdd · March 28, 2010, 12:30 AM

In my safe I have a wide variety of calibers and I truly enjoy studying and understanding their trajectories. Adjusting my optic for a different point of impact at 100 doesn't address the true problem which is approximately 30% more drop at 200 than the tables say I should have.

Btw, in response to Jim243, I don't know if my rifle will handle that large of a bullet. At this point my 223 is like a puzzle. It's intriguing and simultaneously frustrating but I won't be happy until I turn all the pieces right.

Jim243 · March 28, 2010, 12:31 AM

Ues a heavier bullet and a slower powder. It will work. Or your scope is messed up on parilax adjusting for that range. You do have an adjustable objective on that scope, YES?? Otherwise if it is a fixed objective it is only set to 100 yards.

Jim

rg1 · March 28, 2010, 01:09 AM

Your 26.5 grain charge of Win748 with 55 BT's should be going approx. 2800-2850 fps in your 20" barrel. Shouldn't be dropping that much at 200 yards with a 100 yard zero?? If you get a chance try some 50 grain bullets such as the Hornady 50gr V-Max or Nosler BT's in your 20" barrel. The Hornady 50 V-Max's shoot really good in a 20" and 16" barrel for me.

wxl · March 28, 2010, 10:03 AM

With your load, ~2800 fps will drop ~4" at 200 with a 100 yard zero.

Agree with most of above recommendations but first should be set your zero to 200 yards then optimize your load recipe. Also look at ballistics trajectory for a 223 to see what can be expected. Typical model I like is on Norma web site. Plug in BC and grain bullet. You can then move the zero range up or down and see what rise or drop is at different ranges. You may find typically 2" high at 100 and ~10" drop at 300 is the expected (lower velocity with 20"bbl, ~200 fps lower than 24"bbl and ~300fps than a 26"). You may be expecting too much.

mdd · March 28, 2010, 10:22 AM

Rg1, I am shooting nosler ballistic tips in this rifle. I'm in central ks where the wind blows 24/7/365 so drift is a big concern when talking about reducing bullet mass.

Jim243, it is a fixed objective 3-9x40 but nothing on the scope was adjusted between the 100 and 200 yd targets...not even magnification. It was identical on both. I've tried to eliminate as many variables as possible.

mdd · March 28, 2010, 12:27 PM

Snip/ "you may be expecting too much." /snip

I'm afraid there is a lot of truth in this statement. My favorite cartridge is the 25-06 loaded with 115 grain nosler ballistic tips and there is no way to make a 223 perform like that. Ultimately though, what I want to find is the optimal type & amount of powder to maximize the potential of this 20 inch barrel and the 55 grain ballistic tips I prefer.

Scorch · March 28, 2010, 03:13 PM

I shoot almost the exact same load, 55 gr Hornady SP over 26.1 gr of 748, it chronos at 3,120 fps. Your accuracy problem is most likely due to the tighter twist of your barrel, you might want to move up to 60 gr or 69 gr bullets. They would buck the wind better, too.

flashhole · March 28, 2010, 03:27 PM

I couldn't get any 55 grain bullet/powder combination to shoot worth a darn in my 223 with a 1:9 twist barrel. It was very frustrating because the gun is a high quality Kimber.

I tried Nosler 40 grain ballistic tips ... one hole, with all the powders that didn't work with the 55 grain bullets. Reloader 10X and Hodgdon BL-C(2) work really well.

I tried a Sierra 63 grain semi-point ... again, one hole with all the powders that didn't work with the 55 grain bullets. Varget and H-4895 work really well.

So now I have both a light and heavy bullet load for the 223. They don't hit at the same point of impact but both are very accurate.

My advice, try a different bullet.

March 27, 2010, 08:19 PM	#1
mdd Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Posts: 626	help me straighten out my 223 recipe My dad got me started reloading a few years ago. Not knowing any better, I used his recipe for 223 ammo. Problem is his 223 rifle has a 26" barrel where mine is 20" (ultralight ruger m77 mkII). We both shoot 55 grain ballistic tips. Problem is, I can't hit a damn thing with mine beyond 100 yds. Had my 'smith check the gun and he said its in perfect working order. Broke down and bought a sled to eliminate myself from the equation as much as possible and found that I have almost 6 inches of drop at 200 when zeroed dead on for 100 yds. The last variable is the ammo. Apparently I need a faster burning powder than what i'm using to work with this shorter barrel. With all this in mind, what do you guys recommend for 55 grain bullets out of a 20" barrel? Thanks for the help.

March 28, 2010, 12:01 AM	#8
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	On 55 gr bullets and larger H4895 on under 55 gr H335. There is a new powder out by Hodgdon IMR 8208 XBT that I have been trying to get. Jim If your chamber will handle them try 75 grain Hornady A-Max's with a load of 23.3 grains H4895 set to OAL of 2.390. Savage Mod 11 - 20 inch barrel 1 in 9 twist, they shoot like lasers straight and accurate. Last edited by Jim243; March 28, 2010 at 12:20 AM.

March 28, 2010, 12:30 AM	#9
mdd Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Posts: 626	In my safe I have a wide variety of calibers and I truly enjoy studying and understanding their trajectories. Adjusting my optic for a different point of impact at 100 doesn't address the true problem which is approximately 30% more drop at 200 than the tables say I should have. Btw, in response to Jim243, I don't know if my rifle will handle that large of a bullet. At this point my 223 is like a puzzle. It's intriguing and simultaneously frustrating but I won't be happy until I turn all the pieces right. Last edited by mdd; March 28, 2010 at 12:41 AM.

March 28, 2010, 03:13 PM	#15
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,249	I shoot almost the exact same load, 55 gr Hornady SP over 26.1 gr of 748, it chronos at 3,120 fps. Your accuracy problem is most likely due to the tighter twist of your barrel, you might want to move up to 60 gr or 69 gr bullets. They would buck the wind better, too. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

March 28, 2010, 03:27 PM	#16
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	I couldn't get any 55 grain bullet/powder combination to shoot worth a darn in my 223 with a 1:9 twist barrel. It was very frustrating because the gun is a high quality Kimber. I tried Nosler 40 grain ballistic tips ... one hole, with all the powders that didn't work with the 55 grain bullets. Reloader 10X and Hodgdon BL-C(2) work really well. I tried a Sierra 63 grain semi-point ... again, one hole with all the powders that didn't work with the 55 grain bullets. Varget and H-4895 work really well. So now I have both a light and heavy bullet load for the 223. They don't hit at the same point of impact but both are very accurate. My advice, try a different bullet. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

March 27, 2010, 08:35 PM	#2
dozernomore Member Join Date: December 14, 2008 Posts: 25	my stevens 223 rem,22'' barrel, loves 55gr V-max's and h335,2900fps mv,

March 27, 2010, 08:37 PM	#3
dozernomore Member Join Date: December 14, 2008 Posts: 25	and I forgot to mention a 1 and 9 twist

March 27, 2010, 09:06 PM	#4
Tacoma Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2004 Location: SE New England Posts: 620	You don't mention what powder /load your using now but .... I've always used H4895 for all my 55gr+ .223 loads of semi auto and bolt guns in the 16-22" range. ( Including my ruger MK II) This is a VERY common powder in competitive AR-15 shooting circles. FWIW, if I were going to shoot @ 200 yds+ regularly with that twist, I might try some slightly heavier bullets over that 4895 in the 60-69 gr range.

March 27, 2010, 09:53 PM	#5
mdd Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Posts: 626	Sorry about that. The load is 26.5 grains of 748 winchester if I remember correctly. I carry this 223 year round in my truck and shoot it pretty regularly. See a lot of bullet-worthy critters as I go about chores and such. Unfortunately I can't seem to provide said vermin with the bullet they deserve when its shooting this poorly.

March 27, 2010, 11:05 PM	#6
SomeGuyInMidwest Member Join Date: January 3, 2010 Posts: 16	I also have a 20" barrel with 1:9 twist on my .223. Like Tacoma, I also use Hornady V-Max and H335. I load 24.5 gr H335 with Lake City brass and Rem 7.5 primers. I get around 3040 fps. I use 24.7 gr. if I load with Winchester brass. I primarily hunt coyotes. They are excellent within 200 meters, but much beyond that I do not trust them. I get about 3.5-4 inches of drop at 200 meters and a little bit of drift. By 300 meters, it is about a 14 inch drop - too much for me to trust.

March 27, 2010, 11:33 PM	#7
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,350	I will guess what is causing your problem is the dead on zero at 100 yds.Try sighting in about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 in high at 100 yds.I think you will find it will be on at 200. You might try studying ballistic tables and a term "maximum point blank range"

March 28, 2010, 12:31 AM	#10
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Ues a heavier bullet and a slower powder. It will work. Or your scope is messed up on parilax adjusting for that range. You do have an adjustable objective on that scope, YES?? Otherwise if it is a fixed objective it is only set to 100 yards. Jim

March 28, 2010, 01:09 AM	#11
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,131	Your 26.5 grain charge of Win748 with 55 BT's should be going approx. 2800-2850 fps in your 20" barrel. Shouldn't be dropping that much at 200 yards with a 100 yard zero?? If you get a chance try some 50 grain bullets such as the Hornady 50gr V-Max or Nosler BT's in your 20" barrel. The Hornady 50 V-Max's shoot really good in a 20" and 16" barrel for me.

March 28, 2010, 10:03 AM	#12
wxl Member Join Date: November 8, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 81	With your load, ~2800 fps will drop ~4" at 200 with a 100 yard zero. Agree with most of above recommendations but first should be set your zero to 200 yards then optimize your load recipe. Also look at ballistics trajectory for a 223 to see what can be expected. Typical model I like is on Norma web site. Plug in BC and grain bullet. You can then move the zero range up or down and see what rise or drop is at different ranges. You may find typically 2" high at 100 and ~10" drop at 300 is the expected (lower velocity with 20"bbl, ~200 fps lower than 24"bbl and ~300fps than a 26"). You may be expecting too much.

March 28, 2010, 10:22 AM	#13
mdd Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Posts: 626	Rg1, I am shooting nosler ballistic tips in this rifle. I'm in central ks where the wind blows 24/7/365 so drift is a big concern when talking about reducing bullet mass. Jim243, it is a fixed objective 3-9x40 but nothing on the scope was adjusted between the 100 and 200 yd targets...not even magnification. It was identical on both. I've tried to eliminate as many variables as possible.

March 28, 2010, 12:27 PM	#14
mdd Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Posts: 626	Snip/ "you may be expecting too much." /snip I'm afraid there is a lot of truth in this statement. My favorite cartridge is the 25-06 loaded with 115 grain nosler ballistic tips and there is no way to make a 223 perform like that. Ultimately though, what I want to find is the optimal type & amount of powder to maximize the potential of this 20 inch barrel and the 55 grain ballistic tips I prefer.