Scopes and Red-Dots

Spartan23 · February 11, 2010, 01:08 PM

I guess is time to learn finally what Scopes and Red-Dots are the best. Models and brands.

I know that a good scope can cost a fortune, but if its really worth it, i will consider taking it in the future.

Main use of scopes will be 300 meters (or 150 meters) competition shooting.
Red-Dots will be used on shotguns and maybe in rifles.

I have experiences with a 20 dollar scope that i get just to be familiar with optics, and also "tested" other scopes at the store.

Conclusion was that the lens i see through is better for me to be bigger.

Cheap and good alternatives are always welcome, as the expansive ones are wellcome as well.

I actually want to know what will get the job done, and will not be fragile like an egg.

JessicaR · February 11, 2010, 01:37 PM

I found two new rugged and reliable values in the fixed power colored mil-dot recticle category by UTG Optics this year. I now have one of each, got them for a buck and change each. The 3x goes on my tricked out ruger .22 and the 6x goes on my .308 AR. Both are for hunting. I've given up on variable power scopes for hunting becuase they always change zero when you zoom and ranging is impossible if you change power all the time. I especially like the mil-dot colored recticles becuase you can actually get good range estimations in low light hunting situations. This brand has a clever changeble mount set-up that doesn't require rings, only a swap out of included rail brackets for AR carry handles, weaver/picatinny rails, .22/airgun rails. Here are some decent pictures and details FYI: http://utgoptics.targetsportsmarketing.com.

Spartan23 · February 12, 2010, 12:00 PM

It seems that i cannot access the site...

Hedning · February 18, 2010, 06:02 AM

I have tried a lot of different scopes. Living in Norway doesnt give me the opportunity to get all the American brands though. But in the long run, you save money on getting some of the expensive ones. At least if you use your scopes for hunting in all kinds of weather.

I dont know what it is, but I tend to slip and fall a lot when Im out hunting. So my rifles looks like something you could find in Stalingrad late January 1943. Almost all my hunting scopes got bumps and bulks. But they keep their zero. Not being to pricy Iv found Docter scopes to be a very good one. Docter is just another name of Zeiss Jena. They had to change name a few years ago... Now, if you stick to Docter you`ll also find one of the best red dot sights you can find. I got two of those. The Norwegian army use those on their MP5`s and HK 416`s.

The absolutely top of the line is the Swarovski scopes. My dream is to have a Z6i 1-6x24 for moose hunting, and a Z6i 2-15x50 for deer hunting. But that happens when I win the lottery. The Z6 series gives you an extremely good field of view. And Swarovski got the best optics.

Another good scope is the German made Zeiss. Got some old ones of those.

There are so many different brands out there, one opinion doesent really count. But I would not fit a cheap scope on my favorite hunting rifle.

As for target/long range shooting you got a whole bunch of choices. I use an old Bauch & Lomb 6-24x48 for that. I sold my Nightforce 8-32x56 BR. Didnt like it.

Oh..I got an IOR scope to. Followed my Super Vepr 308 when I bought it. They are tanks, but the field of view is way to narrow. Its a 2,5-10x42 illuminated.

My thinking when buying a scope:

Optics GOT to be state of the art. (hunting)
It have to be a tank (hunting)
It have to get back to zero if I go 10 clicks up, 10 right, 10 down and ten left. (target)
It have to have a decent field of view (hunting)
And the manufacturer have to have a reputation of actually sending you a new one when something happens.

The very best scope.... IMO Swarovski

The very best red dot....Docter

Have a great one.....

mr.matt · February 18, 2010, 03:47 PM

Here is some info for quick reference. In my opinion and experience with owning many brands and models of scopes I would not advise spending money on scopes from companies not listed here. Some are repeated in price categories because they make ones in each.

Low budget but still good - $175-$300
Nikon
Super Sniper
Nikko Sterling
Burris
Leupold
Weaver

Medium Budget - $300-$1000
Zeiss
Leupold
Sightron
Nikon
Aimpoint
Doctor
Eotech

High budget - $1000+
Nightforce
USO
Trijicon
Swarovski
S&B
Zeiss
Leupold
Eotech

Good online places to buy scopes from experience (ie: good customer service)
http://swfa.com/Riflescopes-C1443.aspx
http://www.opticsplanet.net

Dirk00001 · February 25, 2010, 02:35 PM

For scopes, mr.matt's list is pretty good. For red-dots, in my experience you need to be really careful about what you get as a craptastic red dot is truly awful; difficult to see in bright light, batteries die quickly, doesn't hold its zero, etc. I've got a Docter red dot, which is awesome (and small!), and I used to have an Aimpoint 9000C 2x on a .223 Steyr USR that was great. Aimpoint, in general, is great if you want something you can beat up and, if you're like me, has an extreme battery life for all those times you put the rifle back into the safe without remembering to turn the red dot off. EOTech is also really good, although they're fairly weighty and the price is higher.

As a side note, for anything out to 300m or so you can get away with using a red dot just fine as long as you don't need MOA accuracy; there's a reason why most military's use red dots, holographic, or low-power scopes. I've got a Leupold CQT on my AR, a 4x ACOG on my wife's FS2000, and like I said I used to have an Aimpoint on a Steyr. My M1A's got a 5.5x ACOG on it, and although I'm thinking about upgrading to a variable power scope (as I use it for target shooting, primarily), it's still more than adequate for accurately hitting a target out to several hundred yards.

In the end, a good scope or red dot is likely going to cost you; they're one of those things where, for the most part, a higher price equals higher quality. Although I don't totally agree with the statement "you should pay more for your scope than for your rifle" (which I've heard a lot), I do agree that if your scope is a mere fraction of the cost of your rifle then it's probably going to cause you more problems than solutions.

45Gunner · February 25, 2010, 05:04 PM

Have a floating red dot scope on my shotgun. The shotgun was purchased as protection against pirates when out in the Caribbean. The red dot would enable me to put a slug into the opposing boat just below the water line. My friend had what was the same scope on his AR and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn door with it. He has since moved that scope to his shotgun and is happy he did.

For my money, the Trijicon ACOG scope is darn good. I can remove a hemroid off a fly at 100 yards...well, maybe just a slight exaggeration but it is extremely accurate once it is zeroed in.

Dirk00001 · February 25, 2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

For my money, the Trijicon ACOG scope is darn good. I can remove a hemroid off a fly at 100 yards...well, maybe just a slight exaggeration but it is extremely accurate once it is zeroed in.

TOTAL agreement - for the money, it combines the best of a red dot with that of a scope...and you never need to worry about batteries or low-light conditions or it being dropped or the scope being hit by shrapnel or a machete or bitten in half by a bear or ran over by an M1 Abrams.

...okay, maybe the tank might damage it.

The only real downside to the ACOG is that, in theory, in a decade the tritium brightness will drop by half. And again 10 years later. Etc.
So I just hope that, if the zombies wait until 2030 to attack, they'll be nice enough to do so during daylight hours only.

shooter_from_show-me · February 25, 2010, 07:04 PM

Check this place out...ALOT of knowledge here.

http://www.opticstalk.com/

wy child · February 27, 2010, 08:37 PM

Check out this site, good selection of manufactures and they don't charge shipping on anything $29.95 or over

I recently took a chance and purchased a Osprey 6-24x50 and am quite pleased with it.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.”....Patrick Henry

Dirk00001 · February 28, 2010, 08:17 PM

Although I've never had any problems with opticsplanet, I've got one friend who refuses to order from them as he had nothing but problems with them...and I've read similar stories in forums, as well. Just something to note.

joehorner · March 3, 2010, 08:32 PM

I bought a Primary Arms M 3 clone. There are some real good feedbacks on these at AR 15.com. Battle grade? no. Good enough to do what most of us do? sure. I like mine,it holds zero well. It is solid and the sellers stand behind there products.....................Joe

RandyStacy · March 3, 2010, 09:03 PM

A very good red dot would be the Vortex StrikeFire if you do not want to shell out the big bucks for the Aimpoint. I have a few StrikeFires and never had a single problem with any of them. They all still have the same batteries that they came with and it's been over 1 year.

I absolutely love my Trijicon ACOG TA11. It's the best optic I've ever owned. Not a great deal of magnification (3.5x), but you wouldn't believe the clarity and quality. They say that the ACOGs are not target scopes ... they are battle optics, but they are deadly accurate for being low power magnification. It makes all my other scopes seem like toys. There seems to be an ACOG for just about anyone.

I personally stay away from Eotechs. I hear about too many problems people have had and I never liked them. My Dad has one and I keep messin with it, but it has yet to impress me.

You can't go wrong with an Aimpoint. Even the Aimpoint T1.

whitedogone · March 3, 2010, 10:42 PM

low cost red dot= ultradot
low cost Reg scope (best to not so best)
Bushnell 4200
Nikon monarch
Leupy VX2
Burris FF2

February 11, 2010, 01:08 PM	#1
Spartan23 Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Location: Athens, Hellas Posts: 75	Scopes and Red-Dots I guess is time to learn finally what Scopes and Red-Dots are the best. Models and brands. I know that a good scope can cost a fortune, but if its really worth it, i will consider taking it in the future. Main use of scopes will be 300 meters (or 150 meters) competition shooting. Red-Dots will be used on shotguns and maybe in rifles. I have experiences with a 20 dollar scope that i get just to be familiar with optics, and also "tested" other scopes at the store. Conclusion was that the lens i see through is better for me to be bigger. Cheap and good alternatives are always welcome, as the expansive ones are wellcome as well. I actually want to know what will get the job done, and will not be fragile like an egg.

February 11, 2010, 01:37 PM	#2
JessicaR Junior Member Join Date: December 28, 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 8	Reliable Values in 3X, 6X Red/green Mil-dot Recticle I found two new rugged and reliable values in the fixed power colored mil-dot recticle category by UTG Optics this year. I now have one of each, got them for a buck and change each. The 3x goes on my tricked out ruger .22 and the 6x goes on my .308 AR. Both are for hunting. I've given up on variable power scopes for hunting becuase they always change zero when you zoom and ranging is impossible if you change power all the time. I especially like the mil-dot colored recticles becuase you can actually get good range estimations in low light hunting situations. This brand has a clever changeble mount set-up that doesn't require rings, only a swap out of included rail brackets for AR carry handles, weaver/picatinny rails, .22/airgun rails. Here are some decent pictures and details FYI: http://utgoptics.targetsportsmarketing.com.

February 18, 2010, 06:02 AM	#4
Hedning Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Location: Eastern Norway Posts: 43	I have tried a lot of different scopes. Living in Norway doesnt give me the opportunity to get all the American brands though. But in the long run, you save money on getting some of the expensive ones. At least if you use your scopes for hunting in all kinds of weather. I dont know what it is, but I tend to slip and fall a lot when Im out hunting. So my rifles looks like something you could find in Stalingrad late January 1943. Almost all my hunting scopes got bumps and bulks. But they keep their zero. Not being to pricy Iv found Docter scopes to be a very good one. Docter is just another name of Zeiss Jena. They had to change name a few years ago... Now, if you stick to Docter you`ll also find one of the best red dot sights you can find. I got two of those. The Norwegian army use those on their MP5`s and HK 416`s. The absolutely top of the line is the Swarovski scopes. My dream is to have a Z6i 1-6x24 for moose hunting, and a Z6i 2-15x50 for deer hunting. But that happens when I win the lottery. The Z6 series gives you an extremely good field of view. And Swarovski got the best optics. Another good scope is the German made Zeiss. Got some old ones of those. There are so many different brands out there, one opinion doesent really count. But I would not fit a cheap scope on my favorite hunting rifle. As for target/long range shooting you got a whole bunch of choices. I use an old Bauch & Lomb 6-24x48 for that. I sold my Nightforce 8-32x56 BR. Didnt like it. Oh..I got an IOR scope to. Followed my Super Vepr 308 when I bought it. They are tanks, but the field of view is way to narrow. Its a 2,5-10x42 illuminated. My thinking when buying a scope: Optics GOT to be state of the art. (hunting) It have to be a tank (hunting) It have to get back to zero if I go 10 clicks up, 10 right, 10 down and ten left. (target) It have to have a decent field of view (hunting) And the manufacturer have to have a reputation of actually sending you a new one when something happens. The very best scope.... IMO Swarovski The very best red dot....Docter Have a great one..... Last edited by Hedning; February 18, 2010 at 07:40 AM.

February 25, 2010, 05:04 PM	#7
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	Have a floating red dot scope on my shotgun. The shotgun was purchased as protection against pirates when out in the Caribbean. The red dot would enable me to put a slug into the opposing boat just below the water line. My friend had what was the same scope on his AR and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn door with it. He has since moved that scope to his shotgun and is happy he did. For my money, the Trijicon ACOG scope is darn good. I can remove a hemroid off a fly at 100 yards...well, maybe just a slight exaggeration but it is extremely accurate once it is zeroed in. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

March 3, 2010, 08:32 PM	#12
joehorner Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: WNC Posts: 66	Red Dot I bought a Primary Arms M 3 clone. There are some real good feedbacks on these at AR 15.com. Battle grade? no. Good enough to do what most of us do? sure. I like mine,it holds zero well. It is solid and the sellers stand behind there products.....................Joe

February 12, 2010, 12:00 PM	#3
Spartan23 Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Location: Athens, Hellas Posts: 75	It seems that i cannot access the site...

February 18, 2010, 03:47 PM	#5
mr.matt Junior Member Join Date: February 17, 2010 Posts: 9	Here is some info for quick reference. In my opinion and experience with owning many brands and models of scopes I would not advise spending money on scopes from companies not listed here. Some are repeated in price categories because they make ones in each. Low budget but still good - $175-$300 Nikon Super Sniper Nikko Sterling Burris Leupold Weaver Medium Budget - $300-$1000 Zeiss Leupold Sightron Nikon Aimpoint Doctor Eotech High budget - $1000+ Nightforce USO Trijicon Swarovski S&B Zeiss Leupold Eotech Good online places to buy scopes from experience (ie: good customer service) http://swfa.com/Riflescopes-C1443.aspx http://www.opticsplanet.net

February 25, 2010, 02:35 PM	#6
Dirk00001 Member Join Date: June 23, 2008 Location: Mill Creek, WA Posts: 27	For scopes, mr.matt's list is pretty good. For red-dots, in my experience you need to be really careful about what you get as a craptastic red dot is truly awful; difficult to see in bright light, batteries die quickly, doesn't hold its zero, etc. I've got a Docter red dot, which is awesome (and small!), and I used to have an Aimpoint 9000C 2x on a .223 Steyr USR that was great. Aimpoint, in general, is great if you want something you can beat up and, if you're like me, has an extreme battery life for all those times you put the rifle back into the safe without remembering to turn the red dot off. EOTech is also really good, although they're fairly weighty and the price is higher. As a side note, for anything out to 300m or so you can get away with using a red dot just fine as long as you don't need MOA accuracy; there's a reason why most military's use red dots, holographic, or low-power scopes. I've got a Leupold CQT on my AR, a 4x ACOG on my wife's FS2000, and like I said I used to have an Aimpoint on a Steyr. My M1A's got a 5.5x ACOG on it, and although I'm thinking about upgrading to a variable power scope (as I use it for target shooting, primarily), it's still more than adequate for accurately hitting a target out to several hundred yards. In the end, a good scope or red dot is likely going to cost you; they're one of those things where, for the most part, a higher price equals higher quality. Although I don't totally agree with the statement "you should pay more for your scope than for your rifle" (which I've heard a lot), I do agree that if your scope is a mere fraction of the cost of your rifle then it's probably going to cause you more problems than solutions.

February 25, 2010, 07:04 PM	#9
shooter_from_show-me Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 231	Check this place out...ALOT of knowledge here. http://www.opticstalk.com/

February 27, 2010, 08:37 PM	#10
wy child Junior Member Join Date: November 26, 2009 Location: Cheyenne Wyoming Posts: 8	Check out this site, good selection of manufactures and they don't charge shipping on anything $29.95 or over I recently took a chance and purchased a Osprey 6-24x50 and am quite pleased with it. http://www.opticsplanet.com/ “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.”....Patrick Henry

February 28, 2010, 08:17 PM	#11
Dirk00001 Member Join Date: June 23, 2008 Location: Mill Creek, WA Posts: 27	Although I've never had any problems with opticsplanet, I've got one friend who refuses to order from them as he had nothing but problems with them...and I've read similar stories in forums, as well. Just something to note.

March 3, 2010, 09:03 PM	#13
RandyStacy Junior Member Join Date: March 1, 2010 Posts: 1	A very good red dot would be the Vortex StrikeFire if you do not want to shell out the big bucks for the Aimpoint. I have a few StrikeFires and never had a single problem with any of them. They all still have the same batteries that they came with and it's been over 1 year. I absolutely love my Trijicon ACOG TA11. It's the best optic I've ever owned. Not a great deal of magnification (3.5x), but you wouldn't believe the clarity and quality. They say that the ACOGs are not target scopes ... they are battle optics, but they are deadly accurate for being low power magnification. It makes all my other scopes seem like toys. There seems to be an ACOG for just about anyone. I personally stay away from Eotechs. I hear about too many problems people have had and I never liked them. My Dad has one and I keep messin with it, but it has yet to impress me. You can't go wrong with an Aimpoint. Even the Aimpoint T1.

March 3, 2010, 10:42 PM	#14
whitedogone Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2010 Posts: 100	low cost red dot= ultradot low cost Reg scope (best to not so best) Bushnell 4200 Nikon monarch Leupy VX2 Burris FF2