Copper plated vs Jacketed

[Fullthrottle]

Anybody care to explain the differences, load(powder), advantages, ect.

The reason I ask is that I purchased 500rds of copper plated .357, looked up in my load manual jacketed. oops! I noticed the powder options in the Lee load spec are far less options for plated rounds. I have not purchased any more/different powders than what I already own(IMR SR4756).

[Teuthis]

I use plated rounds in several calibers. They can be loaded identically to lead rounds. That is essentially what they are. The plating prevents leading of the bore. Many of the later manuals have specific recipes for plated rounds. You can find recipes using your existing powders. Enjoy!

[DWARREN123]

I load them in 40 S&W and load plated at the low medium to medium high range for jacketed. So far no problems with about 5,000 reloads. They who make and sell them say to keep them below 1,200FPS.

[GP100man]

Plated bullets "jackets" run from .003-.007 inch , they can`t stand but so much !!

[Fullthrottle]

So is it safe to say that if I load the plated rounds at the jacketed "starting loads" I would be ok?

[Lost Sheep]

Originally Posted by Fullthrottle

So is it safe to say that if I load the plated rounds at the jacketed "starting loads" I would be ok?

Originally Posted by Teuthis

I use plated rounds in several calibers. They can be loaded identically to lead rounds.

I think what Teuthis is saying (also, be sure to read his full post) is that you load plated rounds as if they are cast lead. I have been told the plating does reduce leading, but does not appreciably change the performance characteristics of the bullet.

I have also been told by several reliable, but not authoritative sources to load them as if they were cast lead, so that is what I do. When I get a loading manual that differentiates between cast lead, plated and jacketed bullets, I will use that data.

Originally Posted by DWARREN123

I load them in 40 S&W and load plated at the low medium to medium high range for jacketed. So far no problems with about 5,000 reloads. They most who make and sell them say to keep them below 1,200FPS.

Dwarren123 shared the benefit of his experience. I suspect that if you comb through the loading data, the loads he is reading from the jacketed bullets are close to the loads for same-weight lead bullets.

Good luck, good shooting, be safe.

Remember, only believe half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you get from the internet. Even this post. Maybe especially this post.

Do your own independent, confirming research when ANYONE gives you new facts on the web.

Also remember, even the idiotic stuff might have a kernel of truth buried in there somewhere.

Lost Sheep

[Longdayjake]

What brand of plated bullets are you shooting? If they are Powerbond then you can load them as you would any jacketed round. I sell them and I have customers shooting them at about 2000 fps through their lever actions with great results. That said, it is not recommended to do this with other plated bullets like rainier and berry's.

[Walkalong]

You do not have to limit Raniers, Berrys, X-Treme, or Jakes Powerbond bullets to lead data. Plain and simple. There is data for plated bullets out there. Accurates PDF and Vihtavuoris PDF files available on their websites have some. I also attached an old Midway PDF for plated bullets. (Same data as the Ranier link if you click Midway)

Here is a link to the old Ranier data You can click on the Accurate data, Vihtavuori data, or Midway data for plated bullets.

The Powerbond bullets are the toughest of the ones mentioned, and can be shot at pressures and velocities the others can't take. In my testing they can take jacketed data with no problem as far as damage to the bullet, and are very accurate. Pressures that will result? I dunno.

[BigJimP]

I would not load plated bullets - past lead bullet recommendations unless you can find a published load specifically for that bullet from one of the powder mfg's that has tested them. I've loaded and shot several thousand rounds of Rainers and Berry's bullets in 9mm, .40S&W, .45 acp, .38 spl, .357 mag and .44 mag .

The biggest problem I have with plated bullets - is the variance in terms of thickness of the coating / in a 230gr bullet, I've seen some vary as much as + or - 8.0 grains ....and that is a lot.

I also had problems with plated bullets - coatings coming off - especially in
.44 mag ( 7 or 8 holes in paper, when you shoot 6 rounds ).

I think plated bullets are fine for general range practice / and they're priced right - but I much prefer a real jacketed bullet like Montana Gold.

[Fullthrottle]

Thanks to all for the info.
Jake they are your bullets that I purchased. I did not at first realize plated/copper difference! I am still new to this hobby and have only reloaded .357/.38spcl with Sierra 140gr JHP rounds. Your plated ones are my next adventure. My Lee manual does show a difference between the two(a point I missed at first). No worries, I follow the data to the mark especialy being new to this.

My other question is the difference between the two. Is it the thickness of the coating so to speak, or the material used in the prosess? Or is it the prosess altogether different?

[Walkalong]

I would not load plated bullets - past lead bullet recommendations unless you can find a published load specifically for that bullet from one of the powder mfg's that has tested them

They did, and I linked to some.

[Walkalong]

Fullthrottle can't hurt those Powerbond bullets with any sane .38 or .357 load.

[Dragon55]

walkalong

none of those sites have data for .40 cu coated using IMR or Bullseye

Curious deletion???

[Longdayjake]

My other question is the difference between the two. Is it the thickness of the coating so to speak, or the material used in the prosess? Or is it the prosess altogether different?

Well, its both. The process is different and the copper plating is thinner than a jacketed bullet. The bullets you bought from me are indeed powerbond. They have a much thicker plating than other plated bullets. Or atleast my personal testing has shown that to be the case. I will describe how the plating process works for powerbond.

First, they take lead bricks and extrude them into lead wire in their shop. According to them this is the first step that makes their bullets of better quality because they claim that there are imperfections in the lead wire they were buying from other companies before they started extruding their own.

Im not sure just how they do it, but they chop that lead wire into pieces that will give them the right weight of the bullet. Next they run those lead pieces through a die that will smash the lead into the perfect diameter and shape. Now they have a soft lead bullet. From there they go to the plating process.

They put those lead cores into some kind of acid bath and then they add copper to the bath. Somehow the copper adheres to the lead core. Depending on how long they leave the copper and lead in the bath the thicker the coating that they get. From what I have been told, there are also different kinds of copper that can be used to get specific colors and hardness.

After the bullets come from this bath, Powerbond takes them and puts them back into the die that smashes them into the perfect shape and diameter again. From what I understand, this is different from what other manufacturers do. From what I have been told, other manufacturers that call their bullets "double struck" just push the bullets through a tube that is the right diameter but does nothing to ensure that the shape of the bullet is perfect. I don't know for sure if this is true, but by comparing just the visual difference between powerbond and other brands I can tell that powerbond bullets have more care put into them.

Now, a jacketed bullet is similar in that it has a lead core cut for it, but it is different in that that lead core just goes into a copper or brass "cup" (jacket) and then pressed together in the shape of a bullet. The jacket is usually thicker than plating so it can stand up to more abuse. That said, I am waiting for powerbond to make a .30 caliber bullet so that I can find a way to make them fail. So far, I have not found a velocity limit with the current bullets that I sell and I have not heard anything from my customers about it either.

If you bought your bullets from me, they are powerbond and will shoot better at jacketed velocities than lead cast.

[DaveBeal]

For what it's worth, on their website, Berry's suggests using low-to-moderate jacketed load data for their plated bullets, while Rainier suggests using lead bullet data.

[Fullthrottle]

Interesting Jake, I really appriciate that insite!

[Walkalong]

none of those sites have data for .40 cu coated using IMR or Bullseye

Curious deletion???

It is limited data, but any data is better than no data.

"Curious deletion?"...I don't understand.

they are powerbond and will shoot better at jacketed velocities than lead cast.

That has certainly been my experience with Powerbond bullets in .357.

[Clark]

I have shot hot loads with Berry's plated bullets in 40sw and 10mm.
Some of the plating spins off and makes extra Shrapnel like holes in the target.

But that is after it leaves the Glock, and does not make trouble for the gun, just trouble for the target.

[Lost Sheep]

Originally Posted by Clark

I have shot hot loads with Berry's plated bullets in 40sw and 10mm.
Some of the plating spins off and makes extra Shrapnel like holes in the target.

But that is after it leaves the Glock, and does not make trouble for the gun, just trouble for the target.

Clark,

From what I have read of plated bullets, I would guess that the spinoff of some of the plating to make "Shrapnel like holes" might indicate that the rifling has cut through the plating (some guns have shallow rifling and some have really deep rifling).

Is this a possible explanation, and an indication that some guns might produce this effect (ones with deep rifling) and some guns might not (ones with shallow rifling)?

Of course, this is predicated on the supposition that your Glock has rifling rather than the polygonal "rifling" Glock uses on most of their guns.

This discussion has made me curiouser than before.

Lost Sheep

[Clark]

That was with Glock 20 and Glock 22 barrels.

Somone is loading those bullets in 401 Power Mag, I will see how that works.