Would you use this powder?

[DBAR]

I obtained a can of Bulleye Powder, and when I say can, I mean can. My brother picked it up at a Garage Sale, and I got it from him. It's the old Hercules can. I took the powder out, and put it in a new canister that was empty. I loaded 200 rnds a couple of years ago, 4.9gns over a 230 gn FMG, .45 acp of course. I shot about 120 of them, and they seemed pretty damn hot. I haven't used the powder since then, but I've kept in stored correctly. Does powder change over the years, or does it stay consistant? I'm wanting to load some lead from Missori Bullet, but I'm worried that this powder won't be consistant. What are your thoughts? By the way, the color of the powder is a little greenish. It's my understanding that the manufacturers did have the same process with powder back then, as they do know, and that the color is natural. Just want to be sure.

Thanks in advance,
DBAR

[Unclenick]

It can last over a century if the storage conditions are right, but since it came from a Garage sale, you don't know what it's storage history is? In general, if powder is breaking down it will smell acrid. There is a normal solvent smell, but something that reminds you of the smell of car batteries is not good. Also, there is a fine red dust that appears resembling rouge or powdered rust when breakdown goes far enough. Toss a tablespoon of the powder around on a white sheet of paper and see if any red powder shows up underneath it?

If the stuff is breaking down, sprinkle it on your lawn as a high nitrogen fertilizer. If it is not, and your load felt hotter than the military hardball load that 5 grains of Bullseye mimics (which is warmer than commercial: 390 ft-lbs, vs 350 ft-lbs), just knock it back to 4.2 grains (an old target standby load) and see how it does then? A chronograph will let you compare it to commercial ball. In that instance, same gun, same chronograph, same test conditions, you can compare it and get a rough assurance, since that powder was once used for military .45 ACP loads, that it will be within reasonable pressure limits when loaded to the same velocity as commercial ball.

[Scorch]

It should be fine if it is still green. Hercules powders used to come in a square metal can with a round lid. They were very well-built cans, sealing the powder against light, moisture, and air. Hercules switched over to a square metalized cardboard can in the early 1970s, then to a round metalized cardboard can with a pull spout in the early 1980s, then to plastic bottles as they became Alliant Powders.

[NWPilgrim]

While technically the powder may be fine, I agree with the caution regarding the storage history. Since it seems hotter than normal that would immediately raise my suspicions. when in doubt, throw it out, for safety sakes.

You're talking about a $20 can of powder, or less. Is it worth reusing some powder that the unknown prior owner may have "custom blended" or otherwise contaminated? He may have gotten mixed up and put the wrong powder back in the can.

It doesn't seem worth the risk to your guns or your body to use a powder of unknown handling history, just to save $20 or less. I would never buy powder from someone I didn't know and have confidence it was handled properly.

The only mitigating factor is that Bullseye is normally a pretty quick powder, so there are few powders that would be quicker and thus making a potential mixup/blend dangerous. If you still plan to use this powder I would always use it at the starting levels and never above that.

[Mike Irwin]

Storage history hell.

I'd be worried about the loading habits of the former owner if the can was open.

Nothing like getting a can with two kinds of powders mixed in.

[Farmland]

Mike that was a good statement to make. It was so simple that I have never thought about this fact. It can happen and I do know of a case where a person accidentally dumped a powder he was suing for handguns into the wrong container. The result was when he loaded his 223 it Kaboomed his AR15.

So if it was an open container I would use some caution or maybe just use it on the lawn.

[Mike Irwin]

I've bought open cans of powder before.

But I've bought them ONLY for the can.

The powder gets dumped on my roses to give them a nice nitrogen boost.

[sewerman]

here's a powder burn rate chart that i got from WWW.larrywillis.com/powderchart/html.
if this chart is right and i feel it is your asumptions are correct!

1.Norma R-1
2.VihtaVuori N310
3.Alliant Bullseye
4.Accurate N100
5.Accurate No. 2
6.Alliant Red Dot
7.Hodgdon HP-38
8.Winchester 231
9.Hodgdon Trap-100
10.IMR Hi-Skor 700X
11.Winchester 452AA
12.Alliant Green Dot
13.Alliant American Select
14.VihtaVuori N330
15.Ramshot Zip
16.IMR PB
17.Hodgdon Universal
18.VihtaVuori N340
19.Accurate No. 5
20.Alliant Unique
21.Winchester WAP
22.IMR SR-7625
23.Winchester 473AA
24.Alliant Power Pistol
25.Hodgdon HS-6
26.Winchester 540
27.RamShot True Blue
28.Alliant Herco
29.IMR SR-4756
30.VihtaVuori 3N37
31.IMR Hi-Skor 800X
32.Accurate No. 7
33.VihtaVuori N350
34.Hodgdon HS-7
35.Alliant Blue Dot
36.RamShot Enforcer
37.Accurate No. 9
38.Alliant 2400
39.VihtaVuori N110
40.Norma R-123
41.Hodgdon H110
42.Winchester 296
43.IMR SR-4759
44.VihtaVuori N120
45.Accurate 5744
46.IMR 4227
47.Hodgdon H4227
48.Accurate 1680
49.Winchester 680
50.Norma N-200
51.VihtaVuori N1333
52.Accurate 20158R
53.Hodgdon H4198
54.IMR 4198
55.Alliant RL-7
56.IMR 3031
57.Norma N-201
58.RamShot X Terminator
59.Hodgdon H322
60.RamShot TAC
61.Accurate 2230
62.Winchester 748
63.Hodgdon BL-C(2)
64.Accurate 2460
65.Hodgdon H335
66.IMR 4895
67.Hodgdon H4895
68.Accurate 2495BR
69.VihtaVuori N135
70.IMR 4064
71.Accurate 2520
72.IMR 4320
73.Norma N-202
74.VihtaVuori N540
75.VihtaVuori N140
76.Alliant RL-15
77.Hodgdon Varget
78.Hodgdon H380
79.RamShot Big Game
80.Winchester 760
81.VihtaVuori N550
82.VihtaVuori N150
83.Hodgdon H414
84.IMR 4350
85.Hodgdon H4350
86.Norma N-204
87.Accurate 2700
88.Alliant RL-19
89.VihtaVuori N160
90.IMR 4831
91.Accurate 3100
92.Hodgdon H450
93.Hodgdon H4831
94.VihtaVuori N560
95.Winchester WMR
96.Norma MRP
97.Hodgdon H1000
98.VihtaVuori N165
99.Alliant RL-22
100.IMR 7828
101.Alliant RL-25
102.Accurate 8700
103.Hodgdon H870
104.IMR5010


cheers,
sewerman

[Old Grump]

I use 4.5 gr for a target load in a Colt 1911A1 NM and it seems to work fine for me, back off about to about 4.0 gr and work your way up if you are worried or run it through a chrono, you are probably good if you haven't run into any problems shooting 60% of what you already loaded at 4.9 gr.

The scary part is not knowing the guy who owned the powder in the first place, knowing the history of that can would have been nice to know. But you already done the Boom test and you are still here. somebody upstairs likes you.

[dahermit]

It makes very little sense to ask about the safety of that powder after you have already used some of it. That being said, if it were me, inasmuch as the load you used did not cause you any problems, I would go ahead and use it up with the load you already tried.

[NWPilgrim]

I would use caution using that powder chart as a general reference. In some places it looks accurate, especially in the handgun ranges, but there is no way that BL-C(2) is faster than H335. And I think Varget and IMR4064 are much closer than they appear in the chart.

Here is the Chart from Hodgdon (which distributes Winchester and IMR powders as well):
http://hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

1 NORMA R1
2 Winchester WAALite
3 Vihtavouri N310
4 Alliant e3
5 Hodgdon TITEWAD
6 Alliant Red Dot
7 Hodgdon CLAYS
8 IMR, Co Hi-Skor 700-X
9 Alliant Bullseye
10 Hodgdon TITEGROUP
11 Alliant American Select
12 Accurate Arms Solo 1000
13 Alliant Green Dot
14 IMR, Co Trial Boss
15 Winchester Super Handicap
16 Hodgdon INTERNATIONAL
17 IMR, Co PB
18 Vihtavouri N320
19 Winchester WST
20 Accurate Arms No. 2
21 IMR, Co SR 7625
22 Hodgdon HP-38
23 Winchester 231
24 Alliant 20/28
25 Alliant Unique
26 Hodgdon UNIVERSAL
27 Alliant Power Pistol
28 Vihtavouri N330
29 Alliant Herco
30 Winchester WSF
31 Vihtavouri N340
32 IMR, Co Hi-Skor 800-X
33 IMR, Co SR4756
34 Accurate Arms No. 5
35 Hodgdon HS-6
36 Vihtavouri 3N37
37 Vihtavouri N350
38 Hodgdon HS-7
39 Vihtavouri 3N38
40 Alliant Blue Dot 99
41 Accurate Arms No. 7
42 Hodgdon LONGSHOT
43 Alliant 410
44 Alliant 2400
45 Accurate Arms No. 9
46 NORMA R123
47 Vihtavouri N110
48 Hodgdon LIL' GUN
49 Hodgdon H110 108
50 Winchester 296 109
51 IMR, Co IMR 4227
52 Hodgdon H4227
53 IMR, Co SR4759
54 Accurate Arms 1680
55 NORMA 200
56 Alliant Reloder 7
57 IMR, Co IMR4198
58 Hodgdon H4198
59 Vihtavouri N120
60 Hodgdon H322
61 Accurate Arms 2015BR
62 Vihtavouri N130
63 IMR, Co IMR3031
64 Vihtavouri N133
65 Hodgdon BENCHMARK
66 Hodgdon H335
67 Accurate Arms 2230
68 Accurate Arms 2460
69 Hodgdon H4895
70 Vihtavouri N530
71 IMR, Co IMR4895
72 Vihtavouri N135
73 Alliant Reloder 12
74 IMR, Co IMR4320
75 Accurate Arms 2495BR
76 IMR, Co IMR4064
77 NORMA 202
78 Accurate Arms 2520
79 Alliant Reloder 15
80 Vihtavouri N140
81 Hodgdon VARGET
82 Winchester 748
83 Hodgdon BL-C(2)
84 Hodgdon H380
85 IMR, Co IMR4007SSC
86 Vihtavouri N540
87 Winchester 760
88 Hodgdon H414
89 Vihtavouri N150
90 Accurate Arms 2700
91 IMR, Co IMR4350
92 Hodgdon H4350
93 Accurate Arms 4350
94 NORMA 204
95 Hodgdon HYBRID 100V
96 Vihtavouri N550
97 Alliant Reloder 19
98 IMR, Co IMR4831
99 Accurate Arms 3100
100 Vihtavouri N160
101 Hodgdon H4831 & H4831SC
102 Winchester Supreme 780
103 NORMA MRP
104 Alliant Reloder 22
105 Vihtavouri N560
106 Vihtavouri N165
107 IMR, Co IMR7828
108 Vihtavouri N170
109 Hodgdon H1000
110 Hodgdon RETUMBO
111 Vihtavouri N570
112 Accurate Arms 8700
113 Hodgdon H870
114 Vihtavouri 24N41
115 Hodgdon H50BMG
116 Hodgdon US869
117 Vihtavouri 20N29

[DBAR]

Thanks for your replys. The can was sealed when I got it, and it was in perfect condition. No rust on the can at all. That's why I tried it. I used a 4.5gn load at first (10 rnds), and then bumped it up to 4.9. It was my first time using a powder with such a fast burn rate, and I was surprised how .4 gns hoped up the loads. Anyway....

Thanks,
DBAR

[Old Grump]

Most guys I know who use it for a full load round use 4.8 gr but I was more interested in getting my bullets to go into a small group. Fast powder and a comparatively small case makes for interesting happenings. Same bump with 4350 in my 30-06 is hardly noticeable.

[sewerman]

NW pilgrim,

thanks for the additional chart i'll use both.

i thinking charts are like reloading books they all seem slighly different sometimes.

cheers,
sewerman

[medalguy]

NWpilgrim made an excellent point, worth repeating. Bullseye is one of the fastest burning powders around, so it's highly unlikely something could have been mixed with it that would cause it to burn at a faster rate, thus increasing pressure. This does make it a much safer powder to work with. Also since you said it was a sealed can, I would have little hesitation about using it. Remember, start low and work up using a chrono.

[DBAR]

I ck'd the powder on a white piece of paper, and there is no red stuff. I was really wondering if the older "Hercules" powder was a little hotter than the newer Bullseye powder.

DBAR

[SL1]

There have been some tests of powder that was intentionally dried, and it produced slightly higher pressures (volume for volume) and significantly larger pressure variations. It was not dangerous, just not as uniform. And, since it lost about 3% of its weight, it was a little hotter on a weight basis. MAYBE that is relevant to your powder, but maybe not.

SL1