Stranger slaps 2-year-old at Wal-Mart

[pax]

tyrajam ~

Good observation, and I agree with you.

pax

[digdeep74]

I have thought this out and there are many 61 year old men that could pose a life threatning stand against you .

[Brit]

I second your second... Myself and or my wife would have beat the berjeezus out of the old man!

I am 72 YOA, not that easy to be beaten up, I also would not dream of smacking some one else's "2 year old!" ever.

And by the way, 61 is not old in these times, I came second out of 55 Firearms Instructors in an annual Training Seminar in 2004, I was the oldest at the venue! at 68.

Don't know why I am even commenting, I don't have a horse in this race, maybe because it was quite a shock hearing a 61 year old, being called an Old Man.

[Tex Shooter]

I remember when I was a kid in church with my family, we had to be on our best behavior. No messing around, no making noise, pay attention. Whenever there was some kid sitting in the pew in front of us with his/her family acting up, my dad would actually reach forward, not say a word, grab the top of the kid's head, and turn it forward to face the front of the church. Every single time, the kid would behave perfectly from that point on. Just like a statue.
It was such a long time ago, I honestly can't remember whether or not the other kids parents ever saw my dad do this. There were never any altercations or repercussions. I just remember being shocked and embarrassed.
Looking back on it now, I don't approve of what my dad did. If someone did that to my kid, church or not, we would have words for sure. If someone actually struck my child, for whatever reason, I would hospitalize him. I don't think there's a jury in the land that wouldn't see that my way.

[Crosshair]

I worked retail for 5 years and by and large I place more fault on the parent than the man. People just do not take the time to discipline their kids. The PARENTS are creating the bad situation.

So many parents think that their child "isn't that loud". Yes it is. It's a car alarm that poops. Make it be quiet or take it outside. A 2 year old can be disciplined so they know such tings are not acceptable and if the child continues their behavior than the parents remove the child from the store. I have a couple of friends with young kids who have the common decency to either discipline their kid or take them out to the car until they be quiet.

On this specific case, I don't quite have enough details or certainty to make a call, but I certainly sympathize more with the crazy old man than with the mother.

Everyone knows not to go looking for trouble. Letting your child scream at the top of its lungs is going looking for trouble with a neon sign over your head.

[dabigguns357]

No person shall ever hit/slap my child no matter how hard my child is screaming.Had my wife been in this same situation i know she would been able to take this b/g down,while calling me.If for some reason it was me instead of my wife then i would render him usless,before he got to the second slap.There would be no walking away or fleeing the scene while calling 911,there would be enough on lookers to call for me.There was no reason for this to have happened,he could have ignored it and walked away.

To me he posed a clear danger when said what he did then escalated the threat level by acting on it.

On another note i would like to see him sit in a jail cell for the rest of his life while the guards played recording of children screaming and crying every second of every day,just to keep him company.

[jgcoastie]

The PARENTS are creating the bad situation.

Oh, yeah! The mother is the one who asked the man to slap her child into permanent brain trauma. I guess I just misread... :barf:

Oh wait! The mother actually did leave the immediate area, left the man alone and took her kid elsewhere. The man FOLLOWED HER!!! What in the h*ll is wrong with you people? Blaming the mother because some wack-job came up and started beating her child...:barf:

BOTTOM LINE

A MAN SLAPPED A TWO YEAR OLD CHILD ON THE HEAD, REPEATEDLY! THERE IS NO EXCUSE, AND THOSE OF YOU WHO SAY THAT THE MAN WAS JUSTIFIED OR THAT IT IS THE MOTHER'S FAULT (that she couldn't keep the kid quiet enough) THAT HER KID WAS ASSAULTED: YOU MAKE ME SICK TO MY STOMACH. I AM DISGUSTED AND ASHAMED TO SHARE A COMMUNITY WITH YOU.:barf:

My kids have just as much of a right to be in a public place as you do, no matter what their mood. Go ahead, just try to harm one of them, if I can't beat your a** into a pulp, then I'll just shoot you where you stand. My children's lives are more important to me than yours will ever be, no matter if they are screaming or not. I don't care if you're Mother Teresa or Christ re-incarnated, you beat my kids = I beat your a** or shoot you. Either way, you ain't walkin away like a normal person afterwards.

[hogdogs]

If a kid in my mom's care was a screaming banshee, she would give only one warning...
"Suck it up or I will pull yer pants down and paddle your bottom in front of god and everybody..." AND YOU KNEW NOT TO BET AGAINST IT!!!
As for me, If I ain't in the mood to hear a squallin' punk and the mother fails to acknowledge it... I have, do and will go up tell her... "Why don't you deal with your kid or take 'em outside and lock 'em in the trunk... that will shut 'em up!"
Brent

[zxcvbob]

Brent, I've got no problem with that. But if you then lay a hand on that child, I've got no problem with the mom shooting you between the eyes.

The man in this story is lucky to still be alive. I hope he gets plenty of time behind bars to think about that.

[hogdogs]

z-bob, I am sure we are on the same page...
I raised my kids from '90 to present so I wasn't at liberty to paddle their butt as momma was with us as kids.
I did have a way of whispering in their ear to knock it off, if that failed I gave a quite "covert" light backhand, enough to scare them but not enough to split a lip... Worked fine for me...
Brent

[zxcvbob]

Just to toss out a curve ball, does anyone think he would have done this if the mom was open-carrying a sidearm?

[Wagonman]

Originally Posted by tyrajam
Thanks a lot, do you realize how much time I'm wasting on that site, yet I can't look away...

Much like a train wreck ain't it?

I can't stop HELP :barf:

On a serious note----If some stranger were to touch my son they would be forcilbly introduced to my handcuffs and he would be looking at an aggravated battery charge.

I take pride in my parenting. I am on top of everything my boy does in public. He is very well behaved on the whole but the horns come out occasionally---especially when he it tired and then we have some private Daddy/Michael time and we come back to center.

I remember when I was a kid in church with my family, we had to be on our best behavior. No messing around, no making noise, pay attention. Whenever there was some kid sitting in the pew in front of us with his/her family acting up, my dad would actually reach forward, not say a word, grab the top of the kid's head, and turn it forward to face the front of the church. Every single time, the kid would behave perfectly from that point on. Just like a statue.
It was such a long time ago, I honestly can't remember whether or not the other kids parents ever saw my dad do this. There were never any altercations or repercussions. I just remember being shocked and embarrassed.
Looking back on it now, I don't approve of what my dad did. If someone did that to my kid, church or not, we would have words for sure. If someone actually struck my child, for whatever reason, I would hospitalize him. I don't think there's a jury in the land that wouldn't see that my way.

I think you are talking about a different era. We have moved away from all adults taking care of children-----to our societal detriment. I would never approve of physical disciplining another person's child but a little reminder doesn't hurt

[G-man 26]

She stopped near me and the cry turned to a shriek. I closed the frozen food door and said "My goodness, what are you crying about?"³

³ I've found asking kids to explain why they're upset makes them calm down a little. Then you can talk to them.

Well put. And this psychology works on the older ones as well. Like 61yr olds that take to threatening 2yr olds. “I’m gonna slap your kid!” To which you ask them to explain their aggression against such a little one (in comes the calming effect of the thought process) and you explain why such an act would be a detriment to their own health and well being. This conversation should be held while rifling through the purse for the pepper spray or possibly a more lethal device, and making a hasty get away. IMHO, pepper spray (over spray) in the eyes of a child while one heck of a guilty feeling for momma, would be better than the beating he was giving the little one. OC washes out, head trauma does not.

I remember BillCA giving me a note once to re-check the color alert level after I had joked about being at red alert all the time. It was more of a “Star Trek” reference, but I listened, and read up on it. I don’t agree with constantly assigning and re-assigning a color code for my state of awareness, but I get the point, and I think it applies here. Had the mother’s level of awareness remained elevated after leaving the immediate danger, she would have stood a better chance of avoiding the slapping altogether. She did not take the threat as serious as it was, and that is why the man was able to grab the child.

Maybe I was not clear before; I also am against strangers slapping children in the head. Especially my children. I don't think that lethal force is appropriate in this instance however. I would not "beat him senseless" or "gun that SOB down". He would not touch my child as so many others have said. There are so many other ways to accomplish this (you big burly men out there) that I feel it is ridiculous to just go for the gun. Not so much against it in momma's case, but for 6'4", and 240lbs of ground pounding, child protecting fury, I think the gun or severe beating is uncalled for. Some of you men out there might want to reconsider the “Disparity of force” thing. You beating an “old man suffering from dementia” into submission and causing grave bodily harm would play as well on the nightly news as an old man slapping the bejezus out of a little kid. Somthing to think about.

[Cousin Toad]

When I take my kids out in public I am mindful of the surroundings and my children's behavior. If for some reason I cannot get them to stop crying, we are leaving and will do the shopping or errand after they calm down or at a later time. I do not like to hear unconsolable crying children no more than anyone else. This whole situation screams out to me about people not being aware of the people around them and their surroundings. This is one of those really unique situations that happens very rarely.

I would not use deadly force against the old man unless this whole situation spiraled out of control with him producing some kind of weapon or assaulting the child with fists or not being able to control him in some manner with holds, OC, etc. Using the firearm in a crowded store would be an absolute last resort. You would have to justify the amount of force used with what would be considered reasonable. I just don't like the idea of being in court and my justifications for shooting a 61 yr. old man for slapping (with open hand) a child and the bullet exiting him and striking a grandma in housewares two aisles over and killing her.

If my wife had been by herself in this situation with the 2 yr old she would have initially put distance between this man and her as she is generally nonconfrontational. In the event he would have continued and struck the 2 yr. old he would have probably wished someone would have shot him because it would be like a bad scene from "When Animals Attack." The woman can be quite ferocious when you mess with her young'uns.

[Crosshair]

Oh, yeah! The mother is the one who asked the man to slap her child into permanent brain trauma. I guess I just misread...

Oh wait! The mother actually did leave the immediate area, left the man alone and took her kid elsewhere. The man FOLLOWED HER!!! What in the h*ll is wrong with you people? Blaming the mother because some wack-job came up and started beating her child...

Please read the entire post before making yourself look foolish.

On this specific case, I don't quite have enough details or certainty to make a call, but I certainly sympathize more with the crazy old man than with the mother.

I was talking about screaming kids in general. I have done some more digging on this and perhaps this was not the best case for the man to go slap crazy as the woman seemed to be action reasonable to her child's screaming/crying.

However my point still stands that many parents today bring much of this ire upon themselves. Are they 100% to blame, no. However they do share blame in creating the situation.

I don't go driving through the bad part of town shouting racial slurs out my window at the people I pass. Sure, if I get yanked from my car and beaten with a baseball bat I'm technically the victim, but my actions payed a part in creating the situation.

Parents should not walk through a crowded store with their child screaming at the top of their lungs. It is inviting trouble. I've seen plenty of customers with their screaming kids get a tongue lashing from other customers. sometimes forming into a mob, to please shut their kids up. Never has it gotten physical, but many times it comes close. Of course the child bearing "customer" often takes offense to being asked to quiet the 130 decibel siren in their shopping carts, or running free in the store, and complains to management. Of course none of the staff saw any of this *cough*, the person gets ****** and says they aren't coming back to our store. We would be very grateful if they did not come back, but no fail they are back again with their screaming kids the next week.

I'd love to come to those peoples job and walk around blasting an air horn all day and see how they like it. I do work in Jails now and I find it MUCH less stressful than retail.

[Beentown71]

One thing this thread did do was open up dialogue for my wife and I. We have talked through it. Her answers actually suprised me. She now has a plan of what to do. So thanks for posting it.

Those of you say that it was the mothers fault...you are way off base. No matter what another persons child does (outside of hurting your kids, saving them from hurting themselves badly, etc...) there is no reason to touch them.

Sure I hate it when someone doesn't control their kids but I move on. I may even say something to them...offer a helping hand not a backhand.

Orig poster - Crosshair

I don't go driving through the bad part of town shouting racial slurs out my window at the people I pass. Sure, if I get yanked from my car and beaten with a baseball bat I'm technically the victim, but my actions payed a part in creating the situation.

Way over the top and not even a comparison.

There is SO much more I disagree with but...I have to discipline my child.

[dabigguns357]

I'm sure the man had a good reason for getting so angry that he had to frighten and basicly stalk the mother and child as they left where he was at.This sounds like a pretty simple case for getting hurt or killed.

I work for walmart myself and have seen some really crapy things go one with parents and children,but i have never been mad enough to strike down a child(though i have wanted to knock a knot on some parents).

Heck 2 weeks ago i saw a 8 year old boy walk down the isle 8 and punch a hole in at least 7 bags of flour and suger.Was i mad (h%^$ yea but not enough to stalk him then slap him).Three days ago i heard a child from produce all the way back in dairy screaming and crying because she didn't get what she wanted.Did i get mad no,i went in the other direction.You know why,it's the sane thing to do.No matter how good kids are,they will scream and cry at the worst time.

I wonder how he would have reacted to say a new born like mine crying and screaming.Would he have stalked he and my wife down and slapped him down too.

Tactically she what she could,minus breaking a bottle of something over his head and sliced his $%& up with the broken pieces.But he is where he needs to be and he can work out his anger issues with all the other inmates.

[jgcoastie]

Please read the entire post before making yourself look foolish.

I did, here's what I found... (all emphasis added by me)

I worked retail for 5 years and by and large I place more fault on the parent than the man. People just do not take the time to discipline their kids. The PARENTS are creating the bad situation.

So it's the mother's fault that a wack-nut followed her and her kid around the store, resulting in him striking the child with possible life-ending blows. Ok, got it. :barf:

So many parents think that their child "isn't that loud". Yes it is. It's a car alarm that poops. Make it be quiet or take it outside. A 2 year old can be disciplined so they know such tings are not acceptable and if the child continues their behavior than the parents remove the child from the store. I have a couple of friends with young kids who have the common decency to either discipline their kid or take them out to the car until they be quiet.

And how do you propose I do that? Slap 'em around a bit? I'd rather not do that to my children, at home the disciplinary rules may or may not change, that is my call. In public and at home however, I choose not to beat my kids in the head.

Me and my kids have just as much of a right to be in a public place as you do. I will do everything I can to correct the situation as it pertains to their happiness, but push come to shove; sometimes kids just need to get it out of their system. You may understand one day when you have children of your own. (I assume you do not, since you referenced your friends' children.)

On this specific case, I don't quite have enough details or certainty to make a call, but I certainly sympathize more with the crazy old man than with the mother.

How is that possible? You obviously do not have any sense of parental love and sympathy. If my child were hit by another, I would be enraged, after I educated the attacker to pick on someone his own size, I would be devastated. As a parent, above all else, you want to protect your children from harm. If you allowed someone to strike your child, you would feel like a failure in that aspect.

Maybe you meant to say empathize instead of sympathize?

Everyone knows not to go looking for trouble. Letting your child scream at the top of its lungs is going looking for trouble with a neon sign over your head.

I fail to see how having an upset child is asking for trouble??? That's like saying someone going into a Ole Miss pep rally wearing a Mississippi State University shirt is looking for a bottle of warm milk/juice box/snack/etc.

Irrational people may consider a screaming child as a parent looking for trouble, but most folks see it as a tired kid with a parent that needs a little more time in each day to get all the errands done.

I really don't understand some people's logic, or apparent lack thereof.

[pax]

Closed.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...4&postcount=71

Glenn, thanks for buying us two more pages -- and thanks to those who stayed on topic.

Disgusted with those who would blame the victims, and who sympathize with a violent criminal.

pax