+p's in my model 10 38special?

38special · March 21, 2009, 11:21 AM

I have a model 10-5 smith & wesson 4" 38 special, several of you guys helped me identify it a while back.
to the point: while at the range recently one of the counter guys told me not to shoot +p's in it, i assume because he thought they where to powerful, for this model, or maybe there's another reason?

anyone care to comment?
thanks

pendennis · March 21, 2009, 11:39 AM

The "K" frame was designed to handle the heavier .38 caliber loads. If this were an alloy "J", maybe. A "K" will handle them with no problem. I don't think the counter guy knows of what he speaks.

pmeisel · March 21, 2009, 11:47 AM

I think a steady diet of +P's would take a toll in wear and tear. The gun was really designed for the regular 38. You could push it, but why?

amd6547 · March 21, 2009, 11:48 AM

+1, I use +P in my K-frame model 15 all the time.
Poor advice from the counter guy.

38special · March 21, 2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

The gun was really designed for the regular 38. You could push it, but why?

I thought for when it is neccesary to carry for SD. sounds like an occasional box of +p's won"t hurt
thanks

38special · March 21, 2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

Dennis, I'm thinking you have to update your signature as (imo) we are in the throws of exactly that!!!

Tom2 · March 21, 2009, 12:41 PM

Plus p 38 is not really a high pressure round. Therefore it is probably safe in a reasonably late production gun. Like in the last few decades? But more pressure equals more wear on the gun. So I don't think it will have any dramatic immediate effects. Like maybe the gun would last 10,000 rounds with regular ammo and wild guess, 2/3 as long with plus P? Maybe less? I doubt you could afford enough plus to break it, at todays ammo prices. But save money and wear and practice with regular ammo. Save the hotter stuff for business and functional/accuracy checks. Heck, I presume you could eventually break something on the gun or cause wear just from dry firing day in and out! Might take awhile.

chris in va · March 21, 2009, 01:46 PM

I asked a S&W rep about shooting +P in my old 1953 J-frame. He said they don't recommend it, but wouldn't hurt for defensive purposes.

RamSlammer · March 21, 2009, 01:56 PM

The counter guy fed you a load of bunk. The 10-5 can handle all the +P you ever care to shoot from it. You'll not wear it out in your lifetime more than likely.

skoro · March 21, 2009, 03:05 PM

The k-frames can eat all the +P you'll ever feed 'em with no indigestion.

Chesster · March 21, 2009, 06:30 PM

I have an old skinny barrel model 10 that has been shooting hot ammo for more than 25 years with no ill effects.

chriske · March 23, 2009, 04:22 AM

Assuming we don't take neglect into consideration :
Any mechanical device will wear faster when used harder.
Harder use in a .38 Spl K-frame S&W like yours would mean continuous use of vast numbers of heavy loads.
(Most .38 +P loads develop less pressure than mild .357 Mag loads)
Even under those circumstances I think your revolver will - at least- last one generation (25 years) before it would need minor repairs/adjustments as to timing, headspacing & barrel/cylinder gap.
Enjoy your fine revolver !

CraigC · March 23, 2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

The counter guy fed you a load of bunk. The 10-5 can handle all the +P you ever care to shoot from it. You'll not wear it out in your lifetime more than likely.

Exactly! .38+P is only 20,000psi, versus 17,000psi for standard pressure loads. Not a huge difference, the K-frame can handle it. A lot less than the .357 at 35,000psi.

skydiver3346 · March 23, 2009, 10:14 AM

I have an older model 10 and have shot a ton of .38+P ammo in it over the years. It's still tight and shoots very accurately (no problems). Has a 4" barrel. I would assume it is okay to shoot +P in your model 10. If you have any concerns, just practice mostly with .38 Special ammo at the range and load it with +P's for self defense.

Jkwas · March 23, 2009, 10:25 AM

According to the S&W manual, any Model 10 built 1958 and after can shoot +p loads. These models are readily identifiable by the model number stamped on the frame when the cylinder is swung out behind the crane. You're good to go.

Dave85 · March 23, 2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

.38+P is only 20,000psi, versus 17,000psi for standard pressure loads.

It's not even that high. SAAMI maximum pressure for .38 Spl. +P is 18,500 psi.

CraigC · March 23, 2009, 02:05 PM

According to Speer #14 it's 20,000psi. Maybe it was 18,500CUP?

Dave85 · March 23, 2009, 02:57 PM

No, it's Psi. I have always heard that the standard pressure was 17,000 psi, and that +P was 18,500 psi, and have always seen 18,500 psi listed whenever I saw it listed. Although, as I google it now, I find both pressures showing up on different web pages (all in psi).

18,500psi
LASC
leverguns.com

20,000psi
handloads.com
Wikipedia

It appears that there has been some monkeying with the limits by SAAMI over the last couple decades. A discussion of it recently took place over on The High Road.

Brit · March 23, 2009, 03:44 PM

The Model 10s/64s/ and 65s that comprised the Revlovers in my case, used for my classes, never more than 8 Security/Armored Car employees, at a time, must have shot many thousands of rounds each over the 23 years I taught classes with them.

A couple of firing pins broke, one went out of time (sliced bits of lead!) local gunsmith could not fix, so I pulled the cylinder and yolk off it, threw those parts away, and used it to verify sight picture from the front! No idea how many clicks that neutered 10 did, millions? That firing pin never broke.

Smooth double action? Incredibly smooth.

The latest models, with sliced cylinder latch, and encapsulated firing pins (al la Ruger) should last for ever, and beautifully smooth speed loads.

Mind you, 16 rounds of 127g +P+ WW Ranger rounds suits me more in my Glock 19! But the S&W Model 10s just keep on ticking!

Chesster · March 23, 2009, 04:12 PM

I think the 158 gr +P LHP is rougher on guns than the WW 110 +P+ Treasury load. I have a 1974 vintage Colt Cobra that has shot at least 500 rounds of each with 1000s of standard pressure loads and it is still as tight as the day I bought it. If the Cobra can take it, I am certain an all steel post 1958 Model 10 can.

James K · March 23, 2009, 04:31 PM

.38 Special +P+ is another story. Some boxes I have say they should be fired only in revolvers chambered for .357 Magnum. AFAIK, SAAMI has never made +P+ pressure figures public, saying the ammunition was never put on the commercial market.

Jim

March 21, 2009, 11:48 AM	#4
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,320	+1, I use +P in my K-frame model 15 all the time. Poor advice from the counter guy. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

March 21, 2009, 03:05 PM	#10
skoro Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,971	No worries... The k-frames can eat all the +P you'll ever feed 'em with no indigestion.

March 23, 2009, 02:57 PM	#18
Dave85 Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,421	No, it's Psi. I have always heard that the standard pressure was 17,000 psi, and that +P was 18,500 psi, and have always seen 18,500 psi listed whenever I saw it listed. Although, as I google it now, I find both pressures showing up on different web pages (all in psi). 18,500psi LASC leverguns.com 20,000psi handloads.com Wikipedia It appears that there has been some monkeying with the limits by SAAMI over the last couple decades. A discussion of it recently took place over on The High Road. __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --commonly misattributed to, and most likely not, Benjamin Franklin

March 23, 2009, 03:44 PM	#19
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	Class guns The Model 10s/64s/ and 65s that comprised the Revlovers in my case, used for my classes, never more than 8 Security/Armored Car employees, at a time, must have shot many thousands of rounds each over the 23 years I taught classes with them. A couple of firing pins broke, one went out of time (sliced bits of lead!) local gunsmith could not fix, so I pulled the cylinder and yolk off it, threw those parts away, and used it to verify sight picture from the front! No idea how many clicks that neutered 10 did, millions? That firing pin never broke. Smooth double action? Incredibly smooth. The latest models, with sliced cylinder latch, and encapsulated firing pins (al la Ruger) should last for ever, and beautifully smooth speed loads. Mind you, 16 rounds of 127g +P+ WW Ranger rounds suits me more in my Glock 19! But the S&W Model 10s just keep on ticking!

March 21, 2009, 11:21 AM	#1
38special Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Detroit Posts: 48	+p's in my model 10 38special? I have a model 10-5 smith & wesson 4" 38 special, several of you guys helped me identify it a while back. to the point: while at the range recently one of the counter guys told me not to shoot +p's in it, i assume because he thought they where to powerful, for this model, or maybe there's another reason? anyone care to comment? thanks

March 21, 2009, 11:39 AM	#2
pendennis Junior member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 572	The "K" frame was designed to handle the heavier .38 caliber loads. If this were an alloy "J", maybe. A "K" will handle them with no problem. I don't think the counter guy knows of what he speaks.

March 21, 2009, 11:47 AM	#3
pmeisel Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2008 Location: WV Posts: 271	I think a steady diet of +P's would take a toll in wear and tear. The gun was really designed for the regular 38. You could push it, but why?

March 21, 2009, 12:41 PM	#7
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Plus p 38 is not really a high pressure round. Therefore it is probably safe in a reasonably late production gun. Like in the last few decades? But more pressure equals more wear on the gun. So I don't think it will have any dramatic immediate effects. Like maybe the gun would last 10,000 rounds with regular ammo and wild guess, 2/3 as long with plus P? Maybe less? I doubt you could afford enough plus to break it, at todays ammo prices. But save money and wear and practice with regular ammo. Save the hotter stuff for business and functional/accuracy checks. Heck, I presume you could eventually break something on the gun or cause wear just from dry firing day in and out! Might take awhile.

March 21, 2009, 01:46 PM	#8
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I asked a S&W rep about shooting +P in my old 1953 J-frame. He said they don't recommend it, but wouldn't hurt for defensive purposes.

March 21, 2009, 01:56 PM	#9
RamSlammer Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2008 Location: Arkansas Posts: 722	The counter guy fed you a load of bunk. The 10-5 can handle all the +P you ever care to shoot from it. You'll not wear it out in your lifetime more than likely.

March 21, 2009, 06:30 PM	#11
Chesster Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2007 Location: Dixie Posts: 2,538	I have an old skinny barrel model 10 that has been shooting hot ammo for more than 25 years with no ill effects.

March 23, 2009, 04:22 AM	#12
chriske Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: Belgium Posts: 176	Assuming we don't take neglect into consideration : Any mechanical device will wear faster when used harder. Harder use in a .38 Spl K-frame S&W like yours would mean continuous use of vast numbers of heavy loads. (Most .38 +P loads develop less pressure than mild .357 Mag loads) Even under those circumstances I think your revolver will - at least- last one generation (25 years) before it would need minor repairs/adjustments as to timing, headspacing & barrel/cylinder gap. Enjoy your fine revolver !

March 23, 2009, 10:14 AM	#14
skydiver3346 Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,222	Model 10 and +P ammo? I have an older model 10 and have shot a ton of .38+P ammo in it over the years. It's still tight and shoots very accurately (no problems). Has a 4" barrel. I would assume it is okay to shoot +P in your model 10. If you have any concerns, just practice mostly with .38 Special ammo at the range and load it with +P's for self defense.

March 23, 2009, 10:25 AM	#15
Jkwas Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Mouth of the Rat, Florida Posts: 1,778	According to the S&W manual, any Model 10 built 1958 and after can shoot +p loads. These models are readily identifiable by the model number stamped on the frame when the cylinder is swung out behind the crane. You're good to go.

March 23, 2009, 02:05 PM	#17
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	According to Speer #14 it's 20,000psi. Maybe it was 18,500CUP?

March 23, 2009, 04:12 PM	#20
Chesster Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2007 Location: Dixie Posts: 2,538	I think the 158 gr +P LHP is rougher on guns than the WW 110 +P+ Treasury load. I have a 1974 vintage Colt Cobra that has shot at least 500 rounds of each with 1000s of standard pressure loads and it is still as tight as the day I bought it. If the Cobra can take it, I am certain an all steel post 1958 Model 10 can.

March 23, 2009, 04:31 PM	#21
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	.38 Special +P+ is another story. Some boxes I have say they should be fired only in revolvers chambered for .357 Magnum. AFAIK, SAAMI has never made +P+ pressure figures public, saying the ammunition was never put on the commercial market. Jim