Reloading 300WM Loose Bullet

[amathis]

Well I'm another newb when it comes to reloading. I've been snooping around here for a few months trying to figure out the best ways to do things and now that I finally have my bench setup and I've started reloading I've got a few questions.

The first round I tackled was my 300WM for my Rem. 700. I'm using an older Lyman press with new Lee dies. From what I can tell everything goes well till I seat the bullet. When I seat the Speer HCSP 165gr to the 3.340 like most of the literature says the bullet is so loose I can pull it out and I can push it in to the case with my calliper.

I am only neck sizing since I am only going to use it in one firearm and when I do size the neck it seems to just fit the die so I am assuming it is correct since there is a little resistance.

There are no cannelure on the bullets I am using, so I hesitate to crimp.

Thanks for your help.

[SL1]

When you say you are neck-sizing, are you using a special neck-sizing die with bushings, or are you using the regular full-length sizing die with the die adjusted out to not touch the case shoulder?

SL1

[amathis]

The die set came with 3 dies the Neck die, the full sizer die, and the seater die. I'm using the neck die. As for bushings, I am not sure if there are any. I've taken the thing apart and all there is inside of it is the deprimer at the end of the shaft that slides into the neck.

[SL1]

What brand of dies are we talking about. Possibly the Lee set with the "collet" sizing die?

SL1

[amathis]

Yes it is the Lee Collet die.

[SL1]

OK, then I think I know what is happening with the collet die.

There is a collet inside the die body that is supposed to surround your case as it goes up into the die, and then be lifted by the shell holder so that it is jammed into a funnel shape inside the die body. That squeezes the part of the collet surrounding your case neck and forces it against the mandrel that is also your decapping rod. That is how the neck gets reduced in diameter.

Sometimes the collet gets stuck in the funnel, if you have rasied the shell holder against it pretty hard without a case in it. If that is your current situation, get it loose before you do anything else, or you will destroy cases trying to force the neck into a too-small space between the constricted collet and the mandrel.

When you have the collet loose, I suggest that you reread your instructions for adjusting that die. It will tell you that you need to use substantial force to properly reduce the case neck. But, don't use force until you understand what the die is doing.

I find that it is best to take this type of die apart before I use it, clean off the gunk, and then lube it with a good CLP all over, PLUS some grease in the "funnel" shaped part where the collet gets constricted. The knerled ring on the top of the die unscrews to disassemble the die. Taking it apart will also let you see how it works.

SL1

[butta9999]

I had the same problem when i bought my Lee collet die. The bullets would be loose enough for me to push them back down or take them out..

I found the problem, the mandrel had to be turned down 2 thou. I did so in a lathe using emry paper. It has to be pretty spot on and even all the way up the mandrel.

I got this info from members on this forum after trying everything else, like what is written in previous posts.

Good luck

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

When using my lee collet die, I actually size each case twice. Size it the first time, spin it 180 degrees in the shellholder, and then size it again. Use FORCE. I have had excellent luck with it. Good luck!

[Nnobby45]

I found the problem, the mandrel had to be turned down 2 thou. I did so in a lathe using emry paper. It has to be pretty spot on and even all the way up the mandrel.

That's a good solution, however: Different brands of brass have different thicknessed at the neck. (the whole case actually). A mandrel turned down so it works with one type of brass may not produce the correct amount of bullet tension with another.

Having different mandrels with different diameters is one solution.

So are special dies that have no expander, but utilize changeble bushings with different diameters to get proper sizing no matter what the neck diameter of the brass. Neil Jones is the type I use.

These special bushing dies size the OUTSIDE diameters the same and you need to consider the thickness of the brass when selecting the proper bushing diameter to get proper tension. The neck thickness times two plus bullet diameter equal the diameter of the neck with bullet seated and no tension. For example:

.011 X 2 plus .308= .330 for neck diameter with bullet seated. You select the .327 or .328 bushing for .002 or .003 worth of tension.

No matter what system you use: measure the diameter of the neck before and after seating the bullet and proper tension would be, as stated, .002 or .003 difference before and after seating. You might get away with .00015, and .004 wouldn't be too bad, though more than you'd need.

[butta9999]

I did take that into consideration Nnobby, but i had this problem using PMC, Winchester, Remington, and Norma brass. Since i polished the mandrel down i have had no problems at all.

How much force is required when neck sizing, i was told not to use too much because i could pop the rubber seal on the die.

[Nnobby45]

How much force is required when neck sizing, i was told not to use too much because i could pop the rubber seal on the die.

I'm not familiar with that die set up, but I assume it's just a matter of reducing the neck diameter and then expanding it back out to accept the bullet. I don't know how you'd apply more "force" neck sizing one way as opposed to another. But then I probably would if I knew how the die actually worked.


Only in full length sizing do you need to use more force--just enough to set the shoulder back.

Don't know what other calibers you've loaded, but neck sizing only works for a while before you have to FL size, anyway.

Brass looses it's elasticity after a certain number of firings and doesn't want to contract for easy extraction. I like to keep the brass "trained" so it never starts to stick.

That's why I FL size all the time---but just enough for easy chambering. With the sharper shoulder of the WSM, you may get by with neck sizing longer than with, say, a 30-'06.

[amathis]

After my last post last night I decided to go to bed but was drawn mysteriously into my reloading room. Out of curiosity I took the die apart again and found the mandrel/decapping rod, and the collet. I then set it up per the directions(again) and I THINK it may be working. I measured the rounds before putting them in and then again after they came out. If I remember correctly they were between 0.01 and 0.02 smaller when they came out.

I'll see what I can do when I get home this afternoon with your ideas. Thanks for all your help.

[rwilson452]

I had that loose neck problem with one of my Lee neck sizing dies. You can get another smaller mandrel from Lee or turn yours down. Not having a lathe I chucked it up in a drill and used the emery cloth and my calipers. Works well now. I did need to flip it end to end in the drill to get uniform diameter end to end. With the the Lee collet die case neck thickness doesn't matter because the inside diameter of the neck is determined by the size of the mandrel not the collet. Yes, it does take a lot of force to use the collet die.

[SL1]

amathis,

Well, suddenly you have lots of advice, some of it a little premature and some of it that doesn't apply at all to your situation.

The thing that you needed to work on first is getting the proper die set-up.

Then, you need to understand that this particular die takes a lot of force to do its job properly. In your original post, you said "I am assuming it is correct since there is a little resistance." I think you will see in your instructions for this die that you need to put a lot of force on the press handle to properly form the case mouth on the mandrel. Exactly how much force you need to use really depends on your press design. Compound linkages take less muscle than single-linkage presses, for example. I can do mine on a single-linkage press (an RCBS Junior).

Anyway, once you get that right, you can start figuring-out if your mandrel is too large for the case neck tension you want. One thing that some of the other posters mixed up (with bushing-type neck sizing dies) is that the collet-type dies do not need different internal parts to accommodate cases with different wall thicknesses at the mouth. However, brass is a little springy, so it will spring back from the madrel surface by about 0.002" as you release the pressure on the press handle. (That is a good thing, or you would have a hard time getting the case mouth off the mandrel.) AFTER the brass has sprung back, you want it to still be about 0.001" to 0.002" SMALLER than the bullet diameter so that it will grip the bullet tightly. Brass gets harder and springier as it is worked, so the amount of spring-back will change from lot-to-lot of brass and , for the same lot of brass, with the number of times reloaded.

So, you may need a smaller mandrel to get as much tension as you want. I did in one of my collet dies. Unless you are good at machining things uniformly, I suggest that you simply buy another mandrel from Lee. If you try to reduce the mandrel you have by yourself, there is significant potential for you to get things uneven or too small. But, try loading with the one you have, first, using the proper die setup and appropriate level of force on the press handle.

It is hard to precisely enough measure the inside diameter of a case mouth with calipers so that you can use the measurement to determine what mandrel diameter you need. So, see how what you have works for your situation. If you are shooting single-shot, you don't need much bullet grip. If you are loading your rounds from a magazine, you need enough to keep the bullets from being pushed back in the case by either the recoil while they are in the magazine or by the force against the feed ramp when you feed them from the magazine. (Folks who shoot autoloaders need MAXIMUM bullet grip or even a crimp, since maximum bullet grip is limited by brass springiness.)

If there is not enough grip, then go to a smaller mandrel. Typically, a 0.001" or 0.002" reduction is all that you need.

I hope this gets you going in the right directionto solve your problem.

SL1

[butta9999]

As i said before that was the conclusion i came to, i had to reduce the mandrel size. I am also loading for a .300 win mag, you can order smaller mandrels from lee.

My dad had all the right equipment for the job so taking that 2 thou off was not a problem.

Since turning the mandrel down i have had no problems with seating tension.

Good Luck.

[Nnobby45]

I measured the rounds before putting them in and then again after they came out. If I remember correctly they were between 0.01 and 0.02 smaller when they came out.

.01 is 10 thousandths. I think you meant .001 and .002.

What's important is the neck diameter before and after seating the bullet. If the difference is .002, or so, you have enough tension. The outside diameter you measured can vary with the differences in thickness of the brass. It's the INSIDE diameter that holds the bullet.

2X the brass thickness on one side plus bullet diameter equals loaded round neck diameter. If the neck diameter BEFORE seating the bullet is from .0015 to .003 less than that, then you're probably ok---althouth .0015 may be borderline. OK for informal target. Not for hunting.

[butta9999]

How funny it is the more i learn the more i don't know. Hmmmmm

[amathis]

I reset everything and made sure I was using enough force. It worked like a charm. Everything was basicly "Textbook." I can't even attempt to move the bullets by hand now. It came back to noobieness and not knowing what to expect

Thanks for your help and thanks for all the other posts that have helped me this far already.