what lead?

yelim · March 7, 2009, 10:01 AM

I have access to some lead sleeving from telephone cables. Would this be suitable for bullets or should I just make sinkers.

**Shane Tuttle** · March 7, 2009, 10:18 AM

I'm not an expert in the field of casting. I've only researched the art of it because I'm about to get into it myself. I haven't seen any objections using lead from other sources except batteries.

I've seen the trend of using wheel weights for bullets and not having to add anything to achieve the correct hardness due to its content. I think you can use the sleeving, but make sure to check its hardness level after the smelting process.

Cloudpeak · March 7, 2009, 10:22 AM

I'm pretty sure you can use the sheathing but you'll have to add some tin (?) to the alloy. I just cast with wheel weights so have no experience with producing various alloys but the guys on this group can sure give you some advice: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php

Cloudpeak

dahermit · March 7, 2009, 10:43 AM

I have been casting for 43 years. Cable sheathing is pure lead with an insignificant amount of other elements. As such, it is too soft to use for cast bullets. Nevertheless, all lead except a few alloys that contain certain elements that render it useless for casting (like battery lead containing calcium, wheel weights containing zinc, etc.), can be used, with alloying, for casting...I would definitely add some wheel weights and up to 2%(maximum, higher is wasteful), tin to the cable sheathing and use it.

This forum is not the best venue for what you are looking for. The following sites are will likely serve you better.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
http://www.castbulletassoc.org/index.shtml

snuffy · March 7, 2009, 11:14 AM

Just about anybody that makes anything out of lead adds some tin to make their job easier. That goes for cable sheathing as well. BUT the amount would be like ½ %. Tin alone will NOT harden lead very much. It's very expensive to buy in pure form, the results don't match it's expense.

Antimony is the ONLY thing that will get you where you want to be for boolit metal. Like was said, wheel weights are a good source of antimony. BUT they are getting very difficult to find. The chain stores have contracts with battery companies for the WW they take off tires. Or they are selling them to recyclers. If you get lucky, small tire shops might give them away, or sell them for $20.00 a bucket. If you find someone that's nice enough to give them away, be sure to take a dozen doughnuts or a case of beer the next time you stop.

Another source of antimony is type metal. Linotype was used for printing newspapers and other short run printing. Those machines are now dinosaurs in the printing industry. It can still be found, but it too is getting scarce. Flea-bay sometimes has it for sale, but by the time you win a bid, and get it shipped, it'll cost $1.50-$2.00/ pound. Again BUT 3# of lino in 17# of cable sheathing, will get you about the same hardness as straight WW. Which will make any handgun boolit and some rifle boolits.

http://cgi.ebay.com/69lbs-Linotype-L...3%3A1|294%3A50

jimkim · March 7, 2009, 02:15 PM

You can buy tin and antimony from several suppliers. The correct alloy depends on what the use and velocity to which you will be loading. As a general rule higher velocities require harder bullets. Look here to find which alloys to use. http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm You may be able to trade or sell some of your lead to get what you want.

snuffy · March 7, 2009, 03:49 PM

Here's another source of pure lead alloys;

http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm

Here's what linotype looks like when found in pigs. The long one is quite old and oxidized. The cut up chunks were bought by me from ebay.

Here's a lead weight I got from work. It weighs 90# and is nearly pure lead.

Mixed 17# to 3# of lino makes boolits nearly the same hardness as WW.

yelim · March 7, 2009, 07:36 PM

I have very little lead sheath from cables. Mostly I have lead sleeving that was used to put on splices in telephone cable. My memory

says it was 60/40 lead to tin? Not sure though.

dahermit · March 7, 2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

I have very little lead sheath from cables. Mostly I have lead sleeving that was used to put on splices in telephone cable. My memory says it was 60/40 lead to tin? Not sure though.

"Pure" lead with have a very dull grey oxide on it. 60/40 will have a "silver" look to it compared to pure lead. I used to get lead from a telephone guy friend that looked like an air tank complete with a stem and tire valve in it. The "tank" itself was pure lead, but the seam was solder (tin/lead). Hardened it with wheel weights and kept the supply of lead coming with deer meat from time to time.

roy reali · March 7, 2009, 07:54 PM

You have really ticked me off. You posted pictures of lead without any warnings. I have now been exposed to that dangerous stuff. If things start to fall off of my body you will hear from my lawyer!!!

dahermit · March 7, 2009, 07:54 PM

FYI: Not all type metal formally used for printing was Linotype. There was electrotype, monotype, rules, two different foundry types, stereotype, etc.

The bad news is not all "Linotype" is Linotype. The good news is that all the different type metals are mostly lead, tin, and antimony. Thus, can be used for casting bullets.

45Marlin carbine · March 7, 2009, 09:08 PM

sleeving (sheathing) is near pure soft lead. BP slug casters love to see this stuff comeing their way.
add tin/antimony (linotype metal and/or 50/50 solder) to make the cast quench harden.

dahermit · March 7, 2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

add tin/antimony (linotype metal and/or 50/50 solder) to make the cast quench harden.

Hardening of lead alloys is a function of the arsenic in the lead alloy. Wheel weights have arsenic, therefore will harden if heat treated correctly. Tin will not allow hardness from heat treating.

snuffy · March 8, 2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

re:snuffy
You have really ticked me off. You posted pictures of lead without any warnings. I have now been exposed to that dangerous stuff. If things start to fall off of my body you will hear from my lawyer!!!

Ha-ha, I should have put an EPA warning label on that post!

For all the good that would do!:barf:

Well, yesterday was a banner day for the recycling of scrap lead! I belong to a private gun club that has a 50 foot indoor range. The bullet trap is a simple angled steel plate with sand to stop the bullets. The steel plate has been resurfaced several times in the past 50 years, but is now beyond repair. The trap hadn't been "mined" for at least 15 years! The lead tends to concentrate in the bottom corner, with shards in front of that. The resulting "logs" in that corner get wedged in there real tight.

A crew of 4 kids,(anybody younger than 30 Y.O. gets called a kid by this oldefarte), and 3 elders, went up to take that lead. The back bumper of a ½ ton pickumup truck was a foot lower than when it arrived at the clubhouse. The back of my Saturn vue had 8 5 gallon pails as full as could be lifted into it. We left approx 500 # of it up there!

It certainly drove heavy coming home. I estimate we got 1500# home with at leat 1000# left to be mined.

The majority of this lead is very soft, being jacketed bullet cores and .22 rimfire bullets. So I plan on alloying this with linotype to be used for my handgun boolits.

The smelting will take place in about a month, or whenever this WI. winter ceases. (Right now we're in the middle of a snow burst, it's snowing at least 3-4 inches/hour!

March 7, 2009, 10:01 AM	#1
yelim Junior Member Join Date: March 3, 2009 Location: Gulfcoast FL. Posts: 9	what lead? I have access to some lead sleeving from telephone cables. Would this be suitable for bullets or should I just make sinkers.

March 7, 2009, 10:18 AM	#2
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,455	I'm not an expert in the field of casting. I've only researched the art of it because I'm about to get into it myself. I haven't seen any objections using lead from other sources except batteries. I've seen the trend of using wheel weights for bullets and not having to add anything to achieve the correct hardness due to its content. I think you can use the sleeving, but make sure to check its hardness level after the smelting process. __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

March 7, 2009, 10:43 AM	#4
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	I have been casting for 43 years. Cable sheathing is pure lead with an insignificant amount of other elements. As such, it is too soft to use for cast bullets. Nevertheless, all lead except a few alloys that contain certain elements that render it useless for casting (like battery lead containing calcium, wheel weights containing zinc, etc.), can be used, with alloying, for casting...I would definitely add some wheel weights and up to 2%(maximum, higher is wasteful), tin to the cable sheathing and use it. This forum is not the best venue for what you are looking for. The following sites are will likely serve you better. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ http://www.castbulletassoc.org/index.shtml Last edited by dahermit; March 7, 2009 at 03:13 PM.

March 7, 2009, 02:15 PM	#6
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	You can buy tin and antimony from several suppliers. The correct alloy depends on what the use and velocity to which you will be loading. As a general rule higher velocities require harder bullets. Look here to find which alloys to use. http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm You may be able to trade or sell some of your lead to get what you want. __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM?

March 7, 2009, 07:54 PM	#10
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	re:snuffy You have really ticked me off. You posted pictures of lead without any warnings. I have now been exposed to that dangerous stuff. If things start to fall off of my body you will hear from my lawyer!!!

March 7, 2009, 10:22 AM	#3
Cloudpeak Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Wyoming Posts: 288	I'm pretty sure you can use the sheathing but you'll have to add some tin (?) to the alloy. I just cast with wheel weights so have no experience with producing various alloys but the guys on this group can sure give you some advice: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php Cloudpeak

March 7, 2009, 11:14 AM	#5
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Just about anybody that makes anything out of lead adds some tin to make their job easier. That goes for cable sheathing as well. BUT the amount would be like ½ %. Tin alone will NOT harden lead very much. It's very expensive to buy in pure form, the results don't match it's expense. Antimony is the ONLY thing that will get you where you want to be for boolit metal. Like was said, wheel weights are a good source of antimony. BUT they are getting very difficult to find. The chain stores have contracts with battery companies for the WW they take off tires. Or they are selling them to recyclers. If you get lucky, small tire shops might give them away, or sell them for $20.00 a bucket. If you find someone that's nice enough to give them away, be sure to take a dozen doughnuts or a case of beer the next time you stop. Another source of antimony is type metal. Linotype was used for printing newspapers and other short run printing. Those machines are now dinosaurs in the printing industry. It can still be found, but it too is getting scarce. Flea-bay sometimes has it for sale, but by the time you win a bid, and get it shipped, it'll cost $1.50-$2.00/ pound. Again BUT 3# of lino in 17# of cable sheathing, will get you about the same hardness as straight WW. Which will make any handgun boolit and some rifle boolits. http://cgi.ebay.com/69lbs-Linotype-L...3%3A1\|294%3A50

March 7, 2009, 03:49 PM	#7
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Here's another source of pure lead alloys; http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm Here's what linotype looks like when found in pigs. The long one is quite old and oxidized. The cut up chunks were bought by me from ebay. Here's a lead weight I got from work. It weighs 90# and is nearly pure lead. Mixed 17# to 3# of lino makes boolits nearly the same hardness as WW.

March 7, 2009, 07:36 PM	#8
yelim Junior Member Join Date: March 3, 2009 Location: Gulfcoast FL. Posts: 9	I have very little lead sheath from cables. Mostly I have lead sleeving that was used to put on splices in telephone cable. My memory says it was 60/40 lead to tin? Not sure though.

March 7, 2009, 07:54 PM	#11
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	"Linotype" FYI: Not all type metal formally used for printing was Linotype. There was electrotype, monotype, rules, two different foundry types, stereotype, etc. The bad news is not all "Linotype" is Linotype. The good news is that all the different type metals are mostly lead, tin, and antimony. Thus, can be used for casting bullets.

March 7, 2009, 09:08 PM	#12
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	sleeving (sheathing) is near pure soft lead. BP slug casters love to see this stuff comeing their way. add tin/antimony (linotype metal and/or 50/50 solder) to make the cast quench harden.