Loading 1.5" 12 gauge shotshells

RAnb · July 28, 2008, 11:16 PM

I am thinking of getting an AOW Mossberg 12 gauge from a Class 2 FFL/SOT in Seattle. I plan on cutting it down further to about 7 inches to look like the Serbu Super Shorty.

I have a MEC 600 Jr press for loading with, but have little experience with it since I normally just shoot clays with cheap shotshells from Walmart. I want to load 1.5 inch shotshells like the ones here; http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_s...ml/aguila.html as I would be able to get 4 into the tube mag instead of only 2.

I made up some dummy rounds just to see if they chambered properly in my Mossberg 500, and they do. I was thinking of a reduced load of #4 buckshot in a steel shot wad and a small charge of powder to keep the load subsonic; mainly for less recoil. Anyone have safe load data for this? Thanks.

Ranb

snuffy · July 29, 2008, 12:51 AM

I don't see anywhere on that site where it's described as 1.5 inch rounds. No matter anyway, you could not reload them using a mec loader. They simply won't go down that low, the shortest shell than it can be adjusted to is 2 ½ inches.

On another note, the mossberg is not a good shotty for a tactical smooth bore. It cannot accept an extended mag tube, because of how the barrel is held to the receiver/mag tube. Get a rem 870, they're about the best of the pumps.

RAnb · July 29, 2008, 03:41 AM

The Aguila shotshells are 1-3/4 inches. I was able to set up my MEC to crimp a shotshell as short as 1-1/2 inches, and they did function just fine in my Mossberg 500.

I do not need an extended mag tube as I want it to be a bit shorter than the 7 inch barrel that I want to cut down to.

I want to chop this;

into something like this;

Ranb

darkgael · July 29, 2008, 05:45 AM

RanB: If you have a moment, what components are you using to reload the little Aguila hulls? I usually drop some in my pocket as extra rounds when I take the SXS into the woods. Reloading them would be a nice project. Did you find data or did you develop data?
Pete

snuffy · July 29, 2008, 08:25 AM

Hmm, that's quite a neat project. You'd have to weld another barrel lug on to mount the front of the mag tube to. But if you can modify a mec loader to load 1-¾ inch shells, that wouldn't be hard to do.

I modified my mec 600 jr to load short 12 gauge shells as short as 1-¾ inches. It involves drilling another bolt hole in the base to allow the center column to drop down further.

Sport45 · July 29, 2008, 10:56 AM

Shot shell length is the measure of the opened hull isn't it? I'd like to see a picture of one of those 1-1/2" shells. How much plastic do you have above the brass after crimping? Just curious as tactical shotgun really isn't my thing.

RAnb · July 29, 2008, 01:23 PM

I haven't reloaded any shot shell hulls yet. I bought the MEC loader several years ago after I started to shoot clays, but never really used it for anything until I started getting interested in some of the shooting competitions (IPSC and 3-gun). Even then all I have done is experimented with learning how to use the loader and adjusting it to see how short I can load the hulls.

I am stuck in working in CA right now and will not be home in WA for another month so I will not be able to provide details on how I adjusted the MEC to load a hull to 1.5". I cut a 2-3/4 inch hull down to about 1-3/4" and when crimped it was about 1-1/2 ". The hull ends up being too short to use a lead shot wad, so I cut down a steel shot wad so it fits. I just need to experiment with some of the faster burning shot shell powders to find a good 1000 fps load. If shot shells are measured from the uncrimped condition, then I probably was adjusted to make them 1-3/4" instead of 1-1/2".

I was talking to a guy who does the 3-gun shoots. He says he makes his own short shells (not quite as short as I want) and loads them with one 50 caliber ball, and the rest of the space with 7-shot. He claims it knocks down the rams much better and he can hold more shells in his tube mag so he reloads less during competition.

Modifying the shotgun should be a simple matter of cutting down the barrel and tube mage to the right length then re-welding the barrel lug to the underside of the barrel. I have not figured out how to make a collapsible front grip yet. I need to make sure I carry a copy of my ATF form 4 and copy of the WA State law that defines a shotgun. WA defines a shotgun, but not a smooth bore pistol or AOW, so I have seen several people (not police) accuse those who own AOW’s of possessing a contraband short barreled shotgun.

darkgael · July 29, 2008, 07:15 PM

Sport45: Try this link
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_s...html/shot.html

Pete

mikenbarb · July 29, 2008, 10:48 PM

What about loading them the old book way with nitro cards? It would allow you to adjust your column height for smaller shells.

BntBrl · July 29, 2008, 11:00 PM

Went to the armoury. Shipping is pretty high on the shotshells. I guess they weigh a lot. I was going to by 10 boxes but shipping was prohibitive.

I never thought about making shorty shotshells to get more in your magazine.

How do they load through autoloaders or do they?

darkgael · July 30, 2008, 06:24 AM

How do they load in autoloaders? From the Aguila website:
"it was clear that this new round would hardly cycle semi-automatics "
http://www.aguilaammo.com/minishells.htm

Pete

mikenbarb · July 30, 2008, 08:51 AM

They dont work in semi's and dont cycle well in most pumps. Theres a method to use them in pumps. Alot wont cycle them well unless you pump the gun in a certain way. If you pump fast, Most will hang up due to the short shell length in the elevator. I have tried them and alot of the guys I shoot with tried them and almost everyone had cycling problems with them. I just threw them in my old stock crate and forgot about them. I will use them some day in my SxS and shoot some tree rats with em. I would never want to depend on them for HD ammo due to problems with guns jamming with them.

RAnb · July 30, 2008, 02:55 PM

When I loaded up some dummy shells, I found I had to cycle the action in a certain way (slower) for reliable feeding. Pumping fast lead to stovepiping.

Ranb

mikenbarb · July 30, 2008, 04:13 PM

Their good to have fun with but I wouldnt trust my life on them with the jamming problems they have. Even if the gun worked with them, I still wouldnt trust em. Fabrique Nationale in Belgium tried this same thing back in the early 60's and gave up because of the same problems their having now. If it didnt work for this many years, Im sure it will never be flawless and will continue to have one problem or another because of the short length.

July 28, 2008, 11:16 PM	#1
RAnb Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: WA, USA Posts: 447	Loading 1.5" 12 gauge shotshells I am thinking of getting an AOW Mossberg 12 gauge from a Class 2 FFL/SOT in Seattle. I plan on cutting it down further to about 7 inches to look like the Serbu Super Shorty. I have a MEC 600 Jr press for loading with, but have little experience with it since I normally just shoot clays with cheap shotshells from Walmart. I want to load 1.5 inch shotshells like the ones here; http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_s...ml/aguila.html as I would be able to get 4 into the tube mag instead of only 2. I made up some dummy rounds just to see if they chambered properly in my Mossberg 500, and they do. I was thinking of a reduced load of #4 buckshot in a steel shot wad and a small charge of powder to keep the load subsonic; mainly for less recoil. Anyone have safe load data for this? Thanks. Ranb

July 29, 2008, 10:56 AM	#6
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Shot shell length is the measure of the opened hull isn't it? I'd like to see a picture of one of those 1-1/2" shells. How much plastic do you have above the brass after crimping? Just curious as tactical shotgun really isn't my thing. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

July 29, 2008, 07:15 PM	#8
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	minishells Sport45: Try this link http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_s...html/shot.html Pete

July 30, 2008, 06:24 AM	#11
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	minishells How do they load in autoloaders? From the Aguila website: "it was clear that this new round would hardly cycle semi-automatics " http://www.aguilaammo.com/minishells.htm Pete

July 29, 2008, 12:51 AM	#2
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	I don't see anywhere on that site where it's described as 1.5 inch rounds. No matter anyway, you could not reload them using a mec loader. They simply won't go down that low, the shortest shell than it can be adjusted to is 2 ½ inches. On another note, the mossberg is not a good shotty for a tactical smooth bore. It cannot accept an extended mag tube, because of how the barrel is held to the receiver/mag tube. Get a rem 870, they're about the best of the pumps.

July 29, 2008, 03:41 AM	#3
RAnb Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: WA, USA Posts: 447	The Aguila shotshells are 1-3/4 inches. I was able to set up my MEC to crimp a shotshell as short as 1-1/2 inches, and they did function just fine in my Mossberg 500. I do not need an extended mag tube as I want it to be a bit shorter than the 7 inch barrel that I want to cut down to. I want to chop this; into something like this; Ranb

July 29, 2008, 05:45 AM	#4
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	reloading minishells RanB: If you have a moment, what components are you using to reload the little Aguila hulls? I usually drop some in my pocket as extra rounds when I take the SXS into the woods. Reloading them would be a nice project. Did you find data or did you develop data? Pete

July 29, 2008, 08:25 AM	#5
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Hmm, that's quite a neat project. You'd have to weld another barrel lug on to mount the front of the mag tube to. But if you can modify a mec loader to load 1-¾ inch shells, that wouldn't be hard to do. I modified my mec 600 jr to load short 12 gauge shells as short as 1-¾ inches. It involves drilling another bolt hole in the base to allow the center column to drop down further.

July 29, 2008, 01:23 PM	#7
RAnb Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: WA, USA Posts: 447	I haven't reloaded any shot shell hulls yet. I bought the MEC loader several years ago after I started to shoot clays, but never really used it for anything until I started getting interested in some of the shooting competitions (IPSC and 3-gun). Even then all I have done is experimented with learning how to use the loader and adjusting it to see how short I can load the hulls. I am stuck in working in CA right now and will not be home in WA for another month so I will not be able to provide details on how I adjusted the MEC to load a hull to 1.5". I cut a 2-3/4 inch hull down to about 1-3/4" and when crimped it was about 1-1/2 ". The hull ends up being too short to use a lead shot wad, so I cut down a steel shot wad so it fits. I just need to experiment with some of the faster burning shot shell powders to find a good 1000 fps load. If shot shells are measured from the uncrimped condition, then I probably was adjusted to make them 1-3/4" instead of 1-1/2". I was talking to a guy who does the 3-gun shoots. He says he makes his own short shells (not quite as short as I want) and loads them with one 50 caliber ball, and the rest of the space with 7-shot. He claims it knocks down the rams much better and he can hold more shells in his tube mag so he reloads less during competition. Modifying the shotgun should be a simple matter of cutting down the barrel and tube mage to the right length then re-welding the barrel lug to the underside of the barrel. I have not figured out how to make a collapsible front grip yet. I need to make sure I carry a copy of my ATF form 4 and copy of the WA State law that defines a shotgun. WA defines a shotgun, but not a smooth bore pistol or AOW, so I have seen several people (not police) accuse those who own AOW’s of possessing a contraband short barreled shotgun.

July 29, 2008, 10:48 PM	#9
mikenbarb Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2007 Location: N.J. Posts: 1,111	What about loading them the old book way with nitro cards? It would allow you to adjust your column height for smaller shells.

July 29, 2008, 11:00 PM	#10
BntBrl Member Join Date: June 8, 2008 Posts: 95	Went to the armoury. Shipping is pretty high on the shotshells. I guess they weigh a lot. I was going to by 10 boxes but shipping was prohibitive. I never thought about making shorty shotshells to get more in your magazine. How do they load through autoloaders or do they?

July 30, 2008, 08:51 AM	#12
mikenbarb Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2007 Location: N.J. Posts: 1,111	They dont work in semi's and dont cycle well in most pumps. Theres a method to use them in pumps. Alot wont cycle them well unless you pump the gun in a certain way. If you pump fast, Most will hang up due to the short shell length in the elevator. I have tried them and alot of the guys I shoot with tried them and almost everyone had cycling problems with them. I just threw them in my old stock crate and forgot about them. I will use them some day in my SxS and shoot some tree rats with em. I would never want to depend on them for HD ammo due to problems with guns jamming with them.

July 30, 2008, 02:55 PM	#13
RAnb Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: WA, USA Posts: 447	When I loaded up some dummy shells, I found I had to cycle the action in a certain way (slower) for reliable feeding. Pumping fast lead to stovepiping. Ranb

July 30, 2008, 04:13 PM	#14
mikenbarb Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2007 Location: N.J. Posts: 1,111	Their good to have fun with but I wouldnt trust my life on them with the jamming problems they have. Even if the gun worked with them, I still wouldnt trust em. Fabrique Nationale in Belgium tried this same thing back in the early 60's and gave up because of the same problems their having now. If it didnt work for this many years, Im sure it will never be flawless and will continue to have one problem or another because of the short length.