reloading 223 with military brass?

Locked-n-cocked · July 25, 2008, 05:23 PM

I've heard you need to be careful when reloading 223 with military brass. OK, I know that military brass is usually thicker=less internal case volume=higher pressures...but I'm going to load lighter loads and pressure shouldn't be a problem. Right?

Also, I've read that the military uses different primer crimp/pocket. What do I have to do in depriming/decrimping and priming? Will a regular de-primer die work?

Will a regular roll crimp work?

Thanks

farnorthdan · July 25, 2008, 06:11 PM

I reload tons of .223, I separate the Lake City as it is crimped and requires reaming or swaging. I prefer reaming myself but some like to swage. I usually do the reaming in small batches, it can put a hurting on your hands and wrists but its definitely worth doing.

DS

Alleykat · July 25, 2008, 07:08 PM

Quote:

OK, I know that military brass is usually thicker=less internal case volume=higher pressures...

What you profess "to know" is incorrect. There's a difference in the case capacity of .308 and 7.62, but not 5.56 and .223.

thallub · July 25, 2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

What you profess "to know" is incorrect.

#1
This is a popular myth spouted by US ammo makers.

For over 40 years I have weighed 5.56mm/.223 brass for my accuracy loads. US 5.56mm brass is not heavier than commercial brass. The heaviest brass out there is Lapua.

http://www.ar15barrels.com/data/223weights.xls

gunney 67 · July 25, 2008, 10:39 PM

I've also heard there is slight dimensional differences that may affect reloading, but never confirmed this. I think that a more relevant measure might be to weigh the grains of water full to the case mouth to determine the case volumes?

Lavid2002 · July 25, 2008, 10:42 PM

No dimensional differences that im aware of.

Hunter0924 · July 25, 2008, 11:16 PM

Check this link, I believe it to be correct.
http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html

totalloser · July 26, 2008, 12:12 AM

RE that link; I say the "lead length" issue is hogwash. The longer jump to the rifling will not give significantly higher pressures. If anyone had ever had a problem interchanging these cartridges, we would have heard of it. Anyone ever had a problem? I never have heard of one.

Basically the only issue with .223/5.56 is the crimp or the rare berdan primer. The crimp is another issue that seems to have been creatively interpreted as well. The VAST majority of "crimped" brass don't need a decrimp. I prefer swaging and us a RCBS setup, but I think the Dillon is better/faster. As to the decrimp, regardless of manufacturer, only about 1 in 20 will need attention. You can set your decap pin to just barely push out the primer, and the ones that need a swage/ream will stay in the case. THOSE ones really do need a decrimp. It's nearly impossible to determine which ones will/won't before decap, but the ones that do not need a crimp will slip right over the swager, and the ones that need one will not.

The case capacity issue is greatly exaggerated. Case capacity varies as much between different civilian brass as between civ/mil brass. The only reason to worry is if you are loading for super accuracy. Then you probably want to sort your headstamps and maybe even weigh your cases.

7.62/.308 case cap is VERY different. Appx 20% capacity difference not to be ignored. This one is not a myth.

PS I think the primer backing out is also hogwash. The primer is held in place by the bolt until it is opened by the gas system/bolt. By this time, the pressure has subsided. I think the references in that link were making assumptions with no real world experience. I could be mistaken on this one, but again, I have never heard of such a problem.

enstorm · July 26, 2008, 01:09 AM

I am always confounded by the endless discussion of the difference between 223 and 5.56. There is none. Specs are the same, one in metric, one in english units. Oh, NATO! My Lyman, Sierra, and Hornady manuals make no mention that military 223 brass should be loaded any differently than commercial. Compare 30'06, where dropping military brass reloads down a grain or two is the wisdom. For what it's worth, I can see a slight difference in capacity between certain 223 commercial brass makers (and I wouldn't be surprised if there are differences lot from lot with the same maker), but I don't ever hear anything about that being cause for concern. Enough already!

Tim R · July 26, 2008, 01:29 AM

I think everyone about covered the question. I load 223 for High Power, shooting lots of 223 in my Service Rifles. I prefere using Lake City Brass! None of my chambers are 5.56.

Alleykat · July 26, 2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

I am always confounded by the endless discussion of the difference between 223 and 5.56. There is none. Specs are the same, one in metric, one in english units.

Find technical drawings of the two and you'll be less confounded! They're not the same. It's not just a metric name for an English case. The case capacity is the same; the shoulder and neck dimensions aren't.

tuck2 · July 28, 2008, 12:09 AM

Run the military cases into a 223 Rem full size resize die , trim to standard length, and deburr the mouth. If the primers were crimped in swage or cut out the crimp. Start out with a low starting powder load and work up. I have loaded up a bunch of military cases..no problems.

sundog · July 28, 2008, 10:26 AM

I run both com'l and mil brass (in segregated batches) through my .223 bolt gun. Performance is equal, but the brass has been prepped for that gun.

Are there differences? Yup.

How important? Only you can decide before you pull the trigger....

W. C. Quantrill · July 28, 2008, 10:40 AM

Once you fire it in YOUR gun, it is then fireformed to YOUR chamber, and if you size it and trim it and then reload it, you should be OK. Part of the changes in chamber design and leade is to allow the longer, different ogive military bullets to chamber in the 5.56. If you slam them into a .223 Chamber, you can get some real high pressures.

It is all on the net, just research it.

July 25, 2008, 06:11 PM	#2
farnorthdan Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2007 Posts: 371	LC I reload tons of .223, I separate the Lake City as it is crimped and requires reaming or swaging. I prefer reaming myself but some like to swage. I usually do the reaming in small batches, it can put a hurting on your hands and wrists but its definitely worth doing. DS

July 25, 2008, 10:39 PM	#5
gunney 67 Member Join Date: July 21, 2008 Location: boise idaho Posts: 77	223 military brass I've also heard there is slight dimensional differences that may affect reloading, but never confirmed this. I think that a more relevant measure might be to weigh the grains of water full to the case mouth to determine the case volumes?

July 28, 2008, 10:26 AM	#13
sundog Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Green Country, OK Posts: 783	I run both com'l and mil brass (in segregated batches) through my .223 bolt gun. Performance is equal, but the brass has been prepped for that gun. Are there differences? Yup. How important? Only you can decide before you pull the trigger.... __________________ safety first

July 25, 2008, 05:23 PM	#1
Locked-n-cocked Junior Member Join Date: May 13, 2008 Posts: 4	reloading 223 with military brass? I've heard you need to be careful when reloading 223 with military brass. OK, I know that military brass is usually thicker=less internal case volume=higher pressures...but I'm going to load lighter loads and pressure shouldn't be a problem. Right? Also, I've read that the military uses different primer crimp/pocket. What do I have to do in depriming/decrimping and priming? Will a regular de-primer die work? Will a regular roll crimp work? Thanks

July 25, 2008, 10:42 PM	#6
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	No dimensional differences that im aware of.

July 25, 2008, 11:16 PM	#7
Hunter0924 Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 472	Check this link, I believe it to be correct. http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html

July 26, 2008, 12:12 AM	#8
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	RE that link; I say the "lead length" issue is hogwash. The longer jump to the rifling will not give significantly higher pressures. If anyone had ever had a problem interchanging these cartridges, we would have heard of it. Anyone ever had a problem? I never have heard of one. Basically the only issue with .223/5.56 is the crimp or the rare berdan primer. The crimp is another issue that seems to have been creatively interpreted as well. The VAST majority of "crimped" brass don't need a decrimp. I prefer swaging and us a RCBS setup, but I think the Dillon is better/faster. As to the decrimp, regardless of manufacturer, only about 1 in 20 will need attention. You can set your decap pin to just barely push out the primer, and the ones that need a swage/ream will stay in the case. THOSE ones really do need a decrimp. It's nearly impossible to determine which ones will/won't before decap, but the ones that do not need a crimp will slip right over the swager, and the ones that need one will not. The case capacity issue is greatly exaggerated. Case capacity varies as much between different civilian brass as between civ/mil brass. The only reason to worry is if you are loading for super accuracy. Then you probably want to sort your headstamps and maybe even weigh your cases. 7.62/.308 case cap is VERY different. Appx 20% capacity difference not to be ignored. This one is not a myth. PS I think the primer backing out is also hogwash. The primer is held in place by the bolt until it is opened by the gas system/bolt. By this time, the pressure has subsided. I think the references in that link were making assumptions with no real world experience. I could be mistaken on this one, but again, I have never heard of such a problem.

July 26, 2008, 01:09 AM	#9
enstorm Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2005 Posts: 217	I am always confounded by the endless discussion of the difference between 223 and 5.56. There is none. Specs are the same, one in metric, one in english units. Oh, NATO! My Lyman, Sierra, and Hornady manuals make no mention that military 223 brass should be loaded any differently than commercial. Compare 30'06, where dropping military brass reloads down a grain or two is the wisdom. For what it's worth, I can see a slight difference in capacity between certain 223 commercial brass makers (and I wouldn't be surprised if there are differences lot from lot with the same maker), but I don't ever hear anything about that being cause for concern. Enough already!

July 26, 2008, 01:29 AM	#10
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	I think everyone about covered the question. I load 223 for High Power, shooting lots of 223 in my Service Rifles. I prefere using Lake City Brass! None of my chambers are 5.56.

July 28, 2008, 12:09 AM	#12
tuck2 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2007 Posts: 208	Run the military cases into a 223 Rem full size resize die , trim to standard length, and deburr the mouth. If the primers were crimped in swage or cut out the crimp. Start out with a low starting powder load and work up. I have loaded up a bunch of military cases..no problems.

July 28, 2008, 10:40 AM	#14
W. C. Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2008 Location: No Man's Land Posts: 354	Once you fire it in YOUR gun, it is then fireformed to YOUR chamber, and if you size it and trim it and then reload it, you should be OK. Part of the changes in chamber design and leade is to allow the longer, different ogive military bullets to chamber in the 5.56. If you slam them into a .223 Chamber, you can get some real high pressures. It is all on the net, just research it.