What Do I Have

taylorce1 · November 22, 2005, 11:54 AM

I recently aquired an old mauser rifle and have no clue as to where it came from. It has no factory stamp or crest as to country of origin, all of the serial numbers match on the barrel, receiver and bolt. The receiver is stamped with 7.62 and the person I bought it off of said he was shooting .308 out of it. The original wood stock is missing and a comercial sporting stock was put on. I have removed the barrel and receiver to see if their was any markings underneath and have found none. It is a very short rifle only a little over 28" long from crown to rear of the receiver and the rear sight is adjustable 300-2000 meters. There is an oval shaped hole on the left side of the reciver on the front ring that I can see the bolt through. It also has a butterfly safety on the rear of the bolt.

Clayfish · November 22, 2005, 03:14 PM

You've got yourself a bubbaized mauser. Get it to a gunsmith to get it checked out. Sometimes they can be really good guns.

RRR · November 22, 2005, 05:02 PM

The Israel(ies) converted some in the 50,s or 60s to 7.62(308 Win)I had one.Very nice shotting rifle good trigger pull too.

Tom2 · November 22, 2005, 07:04 PM

Yes, if has 7.62 stamped largely on the receiver, it might be Israeli for sure. I have seen a few like that. But they are in WW 2 K98 configuration, even though they were often assembled with mixed parts. Also there were some older models with straight bolts in 7.62 floating around at gun shows recently. Forget what country they were from, but they were in military configuration, and the receiver and bolt were polished bright. I think they were converted 1912 models or something. But the Israeli guns are nice for mixed parts guns, were fitted with new barrels and properly set up. Good shooters, maybe more collectable in the future. Unless the metal parts are altered, you could put it back into about original Israeli configuration if you put it into a K98 type stock.

James K · November 22, 2005, 07:27 PM

The Israelis converted mostly K.98k's to 7.62 NATO, a perfectly good conversion. They were priced reasonably when imported and many were "sporterized."

But many countries converted older Mausers to 7.62 NATO as well, for reserve use. Those rifles were originally in calibers like 7.65x54 and 7x57, cartridges in the 40k psi range. They are OK (barely) with milspec 7.62 NATO, but should not be fired with commercial .308 Winchester, which is a lot hotter.

Jim

taylorce1 · November 22, 2005, 10:30 PM

Thanks for all the information, but now I have even more questions. I took the rifle to a gunsmith and he said that it was a Mexican Mauser and that it wasn't safe to use in the 7.62/.308. Also this rifle is a cock on close bolt. I need some help with this to make sure that I can use this rifle safely any recomedations would be helpful.

James K · November 26, 2005, 07:33 PM

Read my previous comment. If it is cock on closing, it is an early Mauser (Model 1893-1896) and was probably 7x57, a cartridge in the 40,000 psi range. The 7.62 NATO milspec is in the 50-52,000 range. The .308 Winchester can go as high as 60,000 or more.

Next question?

Jim

Jim Watson · November 26, 2005, 07:42 PM

Next Question:

If the .308 Winchester is loaded to so much higher pressure, why is it not substantially more powerful than 7.62 NATO? The rule of thumb confirmed by Vihtavuori is that a 20% increase in chamber pressure should give about a 10% increase in muzzle velocity. That would be about 250 fps, book values are around 50 fps difference for 150 gr .308 JSP vs 147 gr hardball.

I think that there is massive confusion because of the transition from crusher gauges to electronic, but the Army kept calling their crusher gauge readings PSI for years.

taylorce1 · December 8, 2005, 10:53 PM

I took some pictures of the rifle action and bolt, so I'm hoping some one can tell me what model of mauser I own. I have more pictures I can send by e-mail.

DnPRK · December 9, 2005, 01:40 PM

It is a pre 98 mauser (93-96). Since the receiver has been scrubbed of markings it will be difficult to determine it's heritage (unless you can find someone familiar with proof marks stamped on the bottom of the receiver). As stated above, the pre 98 actions were not designed for modern high pressure ammo like the 308 Winchester.

Harry Bonar · December 9, 2005, 09:04 PM

Dear shooter:
If the head of the bolt has a flat on the bottom under the lugs you have a 93 Mauser; if it's round you have a 95 Mauser - as Jim says, probably in 7X57. --- Measure the bore!!!!!

IF, and I say IF someone has chambered it for .308, he needs his head examined!
Find this out. Harry B.

49hudson · December 10, 2005, 04:37 AM

Guardia Civil Spanish Mauser?
The first 15 or 20 thou. were imported from Germany and had no markings on them . Later rifles were made in Spain and had the Spanish proof mark.
These were later rebuilt to fire .308. There is some question as to the strength of the Spainish steel. The German imports should be okay to shoot.I would tie the sucker down and fire it using a long piece of cord,or just hang it on the wall.

November 22, 2005, 11:54 AM	#1
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,498	What Do I Have I recently aquired an old mauser rifle and have no clue as to where it came from. It has no factory stamp or crest as to country of origin, all of the serial numbers match on the barrel, receiver and bolt. The receiver is stamped with 7.62 and the person I bought it off of said he was shooting .308 out of it. The original wood stock is missing and a comercial sporting stock was put on. I have removed the barrel and receiver to see if their was any markings underneath and have found none. It is a very short rifle only a little over 28" long from crown to rear of the receiver and the rear sight is adjustable 300-2000 meters. There is an oval shaped hole on the left side of the reciver on the front ring that I can see the bolt through. It also has a butterfly safety on the rear of the bolt.

November 22, 2005, 07:04 PM	#4
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Israili Yes, if has 7.62 stamped largely on the receiver, it might be Israeli for sure. I have seen a few like that. But they are in WW 2 K98 configuration, even though they were often assembled with mixed parts. Also there were some older models with straight bolts in 7.62 floating around at gun shows recently. Forget what country they were from, but they were in military configuration, and the receiver and bolt were polished bright. I think they were converted 1912 models or something. But the Israeli guns are nice for mixed parts guns, were fitted with new barrels and properly set up. Good shooters, maybe more collectable in the future. Unless the metal parts are altered, you could put it back into about original Israeli configuration if you put it into a K98 type stock.

November 22, 2005, 10:30 PM	#6
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,498	Thanks For The Info Thanks for all the information, but now I have even more questions. I took the rifle to a gunsmith and he said that it was a Mexican Mauser and that it wasn't safe to use in the 7.62/.308. Also this rifle is a cock on close bolt. I need some help with this to make sure that I can use this rifle safely any recomedations would be helpful. Last edited by taylorce1; November 22, 2005 at 11:43 PM.

December 9, 2005, 09:04 PM	#11
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	what do I have Dear shooter: If the head of the bolt has a flat on the bottom under the lugs you have a 93 Mauser; if it's round you have a 95 Mauser - as Jim says, probably in 7X57. --- Measure the bore!!!!! IF, and I say IF someone has chambered it for .308, he needs his head examined! Find this out. Harry B.

November 22, 2005, 03:14 PM	#2
Clayfish Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2005 Location: Valdosta, GA Posts: 953	You've got yourself a bubbaized mauser. Get it to a gunsmith to get it checked out. Sometimes they can be really good guns.

November 22, 2005, 05:02 PM	#3
RRR Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2005 Posts: 100	The Israel(ies) converted some in the 50,s or 60s to 7.62(308 Win)I had one.Very nice shotting rifle good trigger pull too.

November 22, 2005, 07:27 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The Israelis converted mostly K.98k's to 7.62 NATO, a perfectly good conversion. They were priced reasonably when imported and many were "sporterized." But many countries converted older Mausers to 7.62 NATO as well, for reserve use. Those rifles were originally in calibers like 7.65x54 and 7x57, cartridges in the 40k psi range. They are OK (barely) with milspec 7.62 NATO, but should not be fired with commercial .308 Winchester, which is a lot hotter. Jim

November 26, 2005, 07:33 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Read my previous comment. If it is cock on closing, it is an early Mauser (Model 1893-1896) and was probably 7x57, a cartridge in the 40,000 psi range. The 7.62 NATO milspec is in the 50-52,000 range. The .308 Winchester can go as high as 60,000 or more. Next question? Jim

November 26, 2005, 07:42 PM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,169	Next Question: If the .308 Winchester is loaded to so much higher pressure, why is it not substantially more powerful than 7.62 NATO? The rule of thumb confirmed by Vihtavuori is that a 20% increase in chamber pressure should give about a 10% increase in muzzle velocity. That would be about 250 fps, book values are around 50 fps difference for 150 gr .308 JSP vs 147 gr hardball. I think that there is massive confusion because of the transition from crusher gauges to electronic, but the Army kept calling their crusher gauge readings PSI for years.

December 9, 2005, 01:40 PM	#10
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	It is a pre 98 mauser (93-96). Since the receiver has been scrubbed of markings it will be difficult to determine it's heritage (unless you can find someone familiar with proof marks stamped on the bottom of the receiver). As stated above, the pre 98 actions were not designed for modern high pressure ammo like the 308 Winchester.

December 10, 2005, 04:37 AM	#12
49hudson Member Join Date: October 2, 2001 Location: okla. Posts: 99	Guardia Civil Spanish Mauser? The first 15 or 20 thou. were imported from Germany and had no markings on them . Later rifles were made in Spain and had the Spanish proof mark. These were later rebuilt to fire .308. There is some question as to the strength of the Spainish steel. The German imports should be okay to shoot.I would tie the sucker down and fire it using a long piece of cord,or just hang it on the wall.