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Old January 6, 2013, 10:02 PM   #26
Bob Wright
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A heavy jacketed hollow point, say 240 gr. in .44 caliber offers the advantage of expansion (for a good wound channel) while retaining its mass at the base for deep penetration.

Light bullets often expand too much, offering too much frontal area and limiting penetration.

The light bullets work well on groundhog, coyote and similar critters, while the heavier bullets work better on heavier, and edible, game.

As far as cast bullets, the more lead, the better.

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Old January 6, 2013, 10:46 PM   #27
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Read everything written by Elmer Keith. You are not going to learn the answers to your questions on an internet forum. (you might but you're going to have to sort through an awful lot of nonsense.)

I've found that LSWC bullets perform better on deer than heavy JHP.

I believe it boils down to the bullet companies make a lot of money on JHP through marketing. Seen 'em fail too often in the real world.
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Old January 7, 2013, 10:43 PM   #28
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The older solid hardcast bullets work, as do many of the lswc designs. If idea of these bullets being that they make a good sized hole through and through, have enough weight to break bone and leave a good blood trail if necessary. The idea is over 200 years old and they do work.

Now modern bullets like the Barnes and the DPX have the weight needed and the penetration and they tend to expand. If for some reason they do not expand they act as a lswchp and plow through to the other side the same as the above.

30 years ago the jhp hunting rounds may not have penetrated deeply enough, or they may have broken up before penetrating deep enough, but those days are no longer.

The answer to the worrying is that a good expanding bullet of modern design will do all the older hardcasts did plus expand. What's not to like?

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Old January 8, 2013, 10:29 PM   #29
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For years in the military all I was allowed to carry were FMJ's. I now tend to carry the heaviest hps i can with back up mags loaded with fmj. I don't worry about over penetration in the least in 45acp. In 44 I like 240 jsp with speed-loaders in hard cast. If I need a reload I'm guessing I will need penetration through some kind of concealment.

Penetration is the most important factor to me in selecting a defensive caliber. People in general have a poor understanding of physics and ballistics and have wildly unrealistic ideas of what a particular round is going to do.
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Old January 10, 2013, 05:46 PM   #30
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Read everything written by Elmer Keith. You are not going to learn the answers to your questions on an internet forum. (you might but you're going to have to sort through an awful lot of nonsense.)
2 great thoughts cept for one problem; Keith and most of his writings are almost from another world when it comes to bullet technology, design and performance. Let's look at the .38sp. He (Keith) had a disdain for the .38 as a man stopper and points out some fine examples in his writings to justify his thoughts. But........... About all his examples were based off crappy RN ammo of the day. Let's face it, that's like comparing apples to oranges from what is available today. Same goes for the .357M. He found it acceptable for deer/bear using his Keith designed cast bullets but considered it inferior to his .44sp and .45c cast loads. No way was Mr. Keith ever gonna be convinced that a small bore with any bullet could match his big bores shooting HIS bullets and he may be right. But the gap can be closed considerably and unfortunately he never saw the wide range of bullets we have today. HP's back then were nothing more than varmint bullets in construction. Don't get me wrong, I love readin Keith and he was the Guru. He just didn't have all the information required to judge what is good or great today since well, he didn't live to see today. Again, unfortunately. No matter, Keith is a must read.

OP, someone either spouted a general rule as gospel or you took it as gospel. Either way what you understand is nothing more than that, a general rule. Not all cast are created equal and not all HP's are created equal.

Take a good HP like Hornady's .357 180gr XTP; while it may not penetrate as far as a hardcast bullet of quality design and construction it will have zero issues going thru deer or other BG and offers a greatly expanded wound channel compared to hardcast bullets. Heavy for caliber HP's of good construction definitely have a place in the hunting world.

Last edited by L_Killkenny; January 10, 2013 at 05:56 PM.
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Old January 10, 2013, 06:42 PM   #31
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Heavy for caliber HP's of good construction definitely have a place in the hunting world.
Yep. I think Hornady offers some of the best of the breed.
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