June 20, 2011, 02:58 PM | #326 |
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We should oppose Traver with the same vigor that we investigate gun-walker, otherwise this is a win for Holder and Obama. This is a crisis that will either benefit us, or be wasted and benefit the administration.
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June 20, 2011, 05:05 PM | #327 |
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Standing Wolf said:
Firing the current head of the BATFE and replacing him with a known anti-Second Amendment bigot is most emphatically not the needed result. ------------------------ True, but that might be pretty much what Obama et al have in mind. As for The Congress, have they ever acted to seriously check the antics of the "ATF"? |
June 20, 2011, 05:11 PM | #328 | |
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June 20, 2011, 08:11 PM | #329 | |
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Maybe it's time to send a bunch of new people to Congress with orders to do the people's work instead of the government's work.
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June 20, 2011, 11:07 PM | #330 |
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Like any bureaucracy, the ATF has to justify its existence. Enforcing alcohol and tobacco laws is pretty far down the line of law enforcement prestige and is decidedly "non-sexy." If enforcement of firearms law was moved to the FBI or other legitimate law enforcement agency (Secret Service?), there would be less pressure for the agency to prove itself and justify its existence through bogus and ill-conceived efforts to ring up numbers and arrests or be a willing political tool. The law enforcement agency assuming the responsibilities would have other duties and responsibilities to help justify its existence. There would consequently be less motive to engage in unlawful behavior.
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June 20, 2011, 11:13 PM | #331 |
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If all we get from this is the firing of the temporary agency head we should be really angry. The law was broken and deaths have occurred from these sales. I agree the agency head should go but if AG Holder fails to prosecute some ATF people he needs to be next on the list. If Congress especially the House part of it does not hold the feet of the White House administration to the fire then Issa and some Reps should be sent packing.
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June 21, 2011, 05:11 AM | #332 |
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I have re-emphasized my objection to Mr. Traver taking over BATFE to my member of congress. Dr. Burgess seems to agree that Mr. Traver is not a good choice.
Notifying your member of congress would be a good place to start.........again.
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June 21, 2011, 08:40 AM | #333 |
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Well, it is finally starting to hit mainstream media now - they discussed it on "Morning Joe" of all things. Of course, information-wise, they are about 6 months behind the internet; but I'm starting to see several news organizations actually question the law enforcement angle.
If I were AG Holder, I'd be stacking bodies underneath that bus and looking to throw DHS under there as well to get that attention focused on another Department that has some culpability. I think it is telling that until now the White House response has been "Neither the President nor Holder knew about or authorized the operation" and the latest response was "The President did not know or authorize the operation." And unlike those who don't think this will go anywhere, I think it has some potential to go far. If it doesn't end up going somewhere it will be because itwas used as leverage in a backroom deal between Republicans and the White House. |
June 21, 2011, 08:57 AM | #334 | |
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Limbaugh bulldogged it a while yesterday as well.
The resignation raises more questions than it answers.....and Traver will likely get the job of cleaning up this whole mess but I don't think Issa is gonna be satisfied until he has a bit more. Just a hunch based on the questions that have already been asked, and statements made to the media.
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June 21, 2011, 10:11 AM | #335 |
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CNN morning news was clearly commentating that they were idiots and that the incident must reach into higher levels in the DOJ.
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June 21, 2011, 10:36 AM | #336 | |
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June 21, 2011, 10:46 AM | #337 |
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Fox news gave it a good go this morning.
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June 21, 2011, 12:18 PM | #338 |
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The ATF was transferred to the DOJ under the Homeland Security Bill in 2003. This should all be stopping at AG Holders front door step. If he is claiming he knew nothing about this idiotic operation then he should be under the bus material for the White House. Especially since he has not announced some criminal prosecutions of the ATF personnel resonsible for this fiasco.
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June 21, 2011, 12:43 PM | #339 | |
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These are the guys who control the actual budget, and who can put real pressure on the ATF. Of course, a quick glance at the roster shows why the ATF continues to enjoy budget increases year by year.
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June 21, 2011, 12:44 PM | #340 | |
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June 21, 2011, 01:08 PM | #341 | ||
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Originally posted by alan
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Honestly, I think you're kind of missing my point. Even if Grassley and Issa don't give a hoot about the 2A rights of you and me, the potential damage that this scandal could have for the Democratic party is, IMHO, too valuable for them to let it get swept under the rug. Will this whole ordeal strip away the overly broad regulatory powers that the ATF has been given unconstitutionally? I doubt it, that's probably something that we'll have to do through the courts. However, I do think that this whole thing may help us get rid of some rotten eggs so to speak. Quote:
Last edited by Webleymkv; June 21, 2011 at 01:20 PM. |
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June 21, 2011, 01:14 PM | #342 |
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We should be demanding more than a shuffling of the deck.
Tom Servo wrote:
True, but know which members can make a difference. Traver's being groomed for a position as acting director, which does not require confirmation through the Senate Judiciary Committee. These are the guys who control the actual budget, and who can put real pressure on the ATF. Of course, a quick glance at the roster shows why the ATF continues to enjoy budget increases year by year. Excellent point, Tom. An acting director would mean that the administration successfully circumvented the confirmation process and got another one of their operatives in position. Traver is bad news! As to your second point about de-funding the ATF, I would say that is most important at this time. However, as you rightly observe, looking at that list is downright depressing! Every single Democrat is a known anti-gun zealot and the members from the other team, the Dead Elephant Party, are not much better....RINO's all of them. I still say there should be a lot of political hay to made from this scandal and Holder should be next on the chopping block. If it drags on long enough, as I expect that may be part of the strategy now, the Obamamessiah is going to have a hard go of getting away from this mess....and that is a good thing. |
June 21, 2011, 01:21 PM | #343 | |
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June 21, 2011, 01:31 PM | #344 | |
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June 21, 2011, 01:31 PM | #345 | |
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Originally posted by Tom Servo
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June 21, 2011, 09:40 PM | #346 | |
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...and the backlash begins. From the Washington Post:
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This isn't likely to derail the investigation, but it casts a pallor over it that might change how sympathetic the media is to Issa.
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June 21, 2011, 11:51 PM | #347 |
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Re those who might be "thrown under the bus", I believe that a likely listing of "sacrificial lambs", would read pretty much as follows.
Melson/Traver, Holder, the "thrower" being Obama. After Holder, who knows. |
June 22, 2011, 01:06 AM | #348 | |
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MSNBC finally posted a story on Fast and the Furious, only after they found a way to spin it in a "gun stores are bad and gun laws are too lax" way.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43487612...ience_monitor/ Quote:
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June 22, 2011, 04:54 AM | #349 | ||
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The Washington Post says that Congress was briefed on the operation, but did that briefing include the part about letting the guns walk? That was what was new in the program, and the Post suggests that ATF told Congress, but not the administration or DOJ. Hmmm....
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June 22, 2011, 05:33 AM | #350 |
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NRA magazine showed up in the mail yesterday. Wayne LaPierre's column proposes exactly the scenario that I have suspected: there never was any infrastructure in place to track these guns once they crossed the border (and, in fact, the BATFE guys down Mexico way weren't even in the loop), so the cover story about hoping to follow the guns to drug kingpins is pure lie.
IMHO, and it appears Wayne agrees, the real goal was nothing other than to ensure that more guns bought illegally in the U.S. could be tied to crimes in Mexico, thus justifying harsher gun control laws here in the U.S. Think about it for maybe 15 seconds, and it's too transparent to miss. Last edited by Aguila Blanca; June 22, 2011 at 08:07 PM. |
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atf , fast and furious |
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