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Old April 13, 2010, 09:43 AM   #51
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5ft to 150-ish yds

I might not get em at that distance but they will definitely be keeping their heads down---which is good enough for me to get away.

The 9mm is surprisingly flat shooting.
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Old April 18, 2010, 11:15 PM   #52
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As joe Citizen with no duty to run down and engage bad-guys, I seriously doubt that I am going to fire on anything 25 yards away. If a threat is 25 yards away, I will do my best to go the other way. If forced to fire on objects 25 yards away, I can hit it but I dont train for it.

My typical range day is:

3 yards (holster draw and fire from the hip)-strong hand
7 yards (single hand) -strong hand
7 yards (single hand)-weak hand
12 yards (both hands)-strong hand /weak supporting
12 yards (both hands)-weak hand/ strong supporting

12 yards (single hand/kneel)-strong hand
12 yards (single hand/kneel)-weak hand

3 yards (single hand / laying on back) -strong hand
3 yards (both hands / laying on back) -strong hand / weak supporting
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Old April 19, 2010, 11:09 AM   #53
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My training is simple necessity...

The nearest range to my location is over an hour away. And when I do get to make it out there, there are special rules.

1. No guns in holsters. Ever.
2. No kneeling, sitting, or prone shooting.
3. No rapid fire.
4. No fun at all, ever.

If you don't want to drive 2 hours away and pay 3 times as much for a range session, you have to play by their rules. So when I make it out there, I use what time I have to practice what will give me the best benefit in the least time.
I am not a LEO or ex-military, but I do carry every single day. In my civilian life, statistics show that if I am in a SD/shooting scenario, it will most likely be within 21 feet, most often much closer. So I begin my range sessions like this.

1. 3 yard double taps from low-ready.
2. 5 yard double taps and failure-to-stop from low-ready
3. 7 yard semi-rapid fire for COM.
4. 10-15 yd target shooting for accuracy and "fine-tuning" my grip, trigger control, breathing, etc...
5. 5 yard double taps and failure-to-stop from low-ready.

I run my 5 yard drills twice because that's what I anticipate my probable zone of conflict to include in the scenario that is "most likely" for me. YMMV. You should always practice most at what you anticipate you will encounter; then push yourself a good bit further for fine-tuning and the "just-in-case" reasoning.

Works for me, and I get to get my practice in. I don't have nearly enough trigger time to be competant out to 30-50 yards with my pistol. I'm humble enough admit I'd be more of a liability at that range putting lead where it shouldn't go, if only by a few inches. For me, at that range, it's time to retreat. If I can't, I'm moving in for a better shot. Moreover, if I can do it, I'm going for my rifle. I'm a much better shot with it at that range anyway.

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Old April 19, 2010, 11:29 PM   #54
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99.999% of altercations involving firearms are within 21 feet so keep that in mind while practicing, but use a combination of distances. And most importantly, learn to shoot without the sights!!!!
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Old April 30, 2010, 09:18 AM   #55
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For handguns:

Contact out to 7 yards for 95% of the rounds I fire, or blue-gun training.

4% from 7 to 25 yards (including any qualifying).

1% out to 50 yards or an occasional mag at 100yd for fun/challenge. When I saw hickok45 on YouTube plinking the 280 foot gong with his Glock 29 I had to try it!

For rifle:

5 yards 300 yards.

**additional point, 75% of my practice isn't in a "target stance." I like to mix it up a lot.. from kneeling to prone, from prone to modified prone, etc. It's like in basketball, it's one thing to shoot a foul shot, but yet another to set a pick, roll off, catch the pass and make the shot with a hand in your face. Practice how you play. Being comfortable shooting around cover is a major focus for me.

**I don't frequent ranges that don't allow holstering and various positions. I will often write a short letter to them indicating as much.

Last edited by booker_t; April 30, 2010 at 09:25 AM.
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Old April 30, 2010, 02:26 PM   #56
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I took a look around my house (inside). When I go to the range (an indoor one) I place the target at about the maximum distance I would expect to have to shoot a BG if he broke into my house. Turns out it's about 15 - 20 feet. That's where I practice. Groups are about 3-4 inches on a good day. I'm happy with that. I've heard of people shooting 1" groups at 25 yards, but I take that with a grain of salt. My sights cover an area three to four times that size at that distance, so I question such claims. Any practice at that distance is just for the fun/challenge/entertainment.

I once had a friend who was an avid mountain hiker. He insisted I carry no less than a .357 magnum FMJ round (for bears) and had me practice shooting a target at 10 feet. I'll always remember what he said about that: "If a bear gets closer to you than 10 feet, the charge is real. You need something that will break bone and lots of it. Don't stop shooting until the bear stops." Sounded clear enough to me.
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Old April 30, 2010, 02:33 PM   #57
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@ JohnnyP

With the bear at 10 ft and closing, I wouldn't have a problem with not shooting!! More like NOT ENOUGH AMMO!!
I like the idea about looking at the house layout. I do the same.
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Old May 1, 2010, 10:49 AM   #58
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Handgun training range distances...

In his non fiction book Rogue Warrior, Richard "Dick" Marcinko(CDR, US Navy retired) the founder & first commanding officer of SEAL-6(now called DEVGRU/Development Group) wrote that the SEAL team members would shoot .45acp, 9mmNATO and .38spl/.357magnum handguns at 3"x5" cards on targets at 30 feet.

Reseach by the LAPD found that 28ft was the average range for a MOS(member of service) shooting.

In general most armed citizens will be in critical incidents in extremely close ranges(3-6 feet). I say remember the 3x3x3 rule; 3 rounds at 3 feet in 3 seconds.

When I go to the range I shoot at about 30 feet but practice at 3 feet or contact range too. It's good to know exactly how you & your weapon will work at both distances.
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Old May 1, 2010, 10:37 PM   #59
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Unfortunately, the nearest all-weather range is more than an hour away and I don't get to shoot as much as I'd like. I like to start out at three yards from low ready with the failure-to-stop drill to see how rusty I am and to build my confidence. From there, almost everything is at 7 yards. I do a little at 15 and 25 to see what I can wring out of my pistol.

I believe what you are referring to is the "21 foot rule." The 21 foot rule states that at a distance of 21 feet, an agressor with a knife, other handheld weapon, or fists can close that distance in 1.5 seconds, and it takes the defender 2.0 seconds to fire a well placed shot from the holster. The 2.0 seconds for a well placed shot is defined in the situation as trained police officer pulling the gun from the holster and placing a shot at center mass.
If I can see someone coming from 7 yards with a knife or other weapon in his hands, that's a feets-don't-fail-me-now situation (so long as I'm alone). The rule is only true if you stand still. A good trainer will teach you to create or maintain that distance (in other words, draw on the move), look for obstacles to put between you and/or to change the angle of attack.
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Old May 2, 2010, 12:11 AM   #60
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handguns at 20 yards
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Old May 3, 2010, 02:09 PM   #61
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Most of my practice is done at 7 yards; the longest distance in my present house. With my new house, I'm going to have to open it up to 15 yards or so to be comfortable. Last few times I went, I've done 7 yards, 10 yards, 12 and 15 yards and getting better at it.
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Old May 3, 2010, 02:48 PM   #62
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12-20 yards with pistol.
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Old May 3, 2010, 03:30 PM   #63
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I primarily practice at 4 distances ... 10 Feet, 15 Feet, 21 Feet and 30Ft.

Anything tactical beyond 30 feet makes little or no sense to me. Beyond 30 Ft, in my opinion - is a bullseye practice session / not tactical.

Most of the time, I'm drawing from a holster - double taps, triple taps - mix in some reloads - and double taps, etc ...( keep everything in the A zone ...on an IPSC target ).
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Old May 3, 2010, 03:49 PM   #64
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The only advantage I can see for practicing at distances further than 7 yards is that it makes 7 yards seem a whole lot easier
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Old May 3, 2010, 09:44 PM   #65
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I always start at 10 yards, slow fire. My object is to get a group of 2" or less all in the 10 ring. Once I've achieved that, I move the target out to 25 yards and try to put everything in the black. I don't always succeed, but I'll fire four or five groups at that distance. I usually end by bringing the target back to 10 yards and working on rapid fire accuracy. With a 6-shot revolver that means 6 shots in 6-7 seconds, with my objective again to put everything in the 10 ring.
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Old May 3, 2010, 11:00 PM   #66
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25 to 30 feet, DAO, single handed grip, with the left or right hand.
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Old May 4, 2010, 11:04 AM   #67
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In his non fiction book Rogue Warrior, Richard "Dick" Marcinko(CDR, US Navy retired) the founder & first commanding officer of SEAL-6(now called DEVGRU/Development Group) wrote that the SEAL team members would shoot .45acp, 9mmNATO and .38spl/.357magnum handguns at 3"x5" cards on targets at 30 feet.
Marcinko is an interesting cat. Indeed, many SWAT/SRT style teams will practice with 3x5 cards, but they start close. and work their way out. They might start training at as close as 2 or 3 feet from the target, with 3x5 cards at CM and OC, and have to put 5 rounds in each card. Then move out to 5 feet, 10 feet, and keep working out. Very similar to improving your jump shot.. you don't start at the 3-point line.

Consistently being able to spit 5 rapid shots in a 3x5 card at 10 yards with anything 9mm or larger is very good shooting.
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Old May 4, 2010, 02:28 PM   #68
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I guess I'm like most people here. Most of my handgun shooting is at 7-15 yards.

However, I like to shoot all my handguns at 100 yards, just to see what's possible. My 9mm's and .45acp I can pretty much get "on paper" at 100 yards. The P-3AT--no way.

I also like to practice draw from concealment and getting the first round on target as quickly as possible. I do that with plastic training bullets in my garage. Most ranges won't let you practice from draw, with good reason.
I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).
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Old May 4, 2010, 03:44 PM   #69
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3 ft to 50 ft (that's how far the indoor range close to me goes.)
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Old May 8, 2010, 03:19 PM   #70
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I never even though to attempt to put a target out past 25 yards. I normally will practice at 25 yards on a steel target and as close as 5 feet. I do not put myself on a schedule when I go to shoot. I am doing it to build up my skill and ability to shoot fast and accurate at the same time. Next time I go to the range (Nov) I will have to put that target out a bit farther!
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Old May 13, 2010, 08:47 PM   #71
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Last time I went to shoot I stretched out to 30 yrds.
I didn't do to bad. I will get better with time!!
Most was at 12 & 15 yrds. But it was cool reaching out a bit!!:}
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